IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

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I thought there was news video of CR leaving the police station? And didn't CR provide a DNA sample to LE?

CR was reported to have met with police

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81884

In this article, CR's lawyer did not confirm that CR gave a DNA sample but in other articles CR was reported to have given a DNA sample to BPD.

http://www.wane.com/dpp/news/indiana/spierer-friend-submits-DNA-sample
http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/loca...r-on-night-she-disappeared-submits-dna-sample
 
Since they haven't, why would I assume the Spierers have done anything wrong or that they are manipulating the media? There's zero evidence of that.

The Spierers are obviously rather media savvy and have the resources to keep this case very much alive in at least regional media as well as not totally off the national radar. Whether they have learned that savvy or have help I don't know. But... I think we're being naive if we don't think they are working the margins behind the scenes. They seem dogged and determined. Smart and focused.

I wouldn't take it for granted they are just giving interviews and otherwise sitting and waiting for news. I think there's a good chance they are pushing some buttons behind the scenes, utilizing their PI's and/or an attorney or two to do the dirty work.

I could be wrong but with their ability to keep this case alive and the recent frustrations we heard from 2 different camps of PsoI I think it's more than plausible there are buttons they are pushing in the background that are keeping the PsOI from just moving on like they'd like.
 
Respectfully snipped...
I think it's more than plausible there are buttons they are pushing in the background that are keeping the PsOI from just moving on like they'd like.

I hope so.
 
I mean if he did step out to find her, chances are he brought his phone. With a warrant from LE they should easily be able to track his movements that evening to see whether or not he was telling the truth. Typically in crimes of passion people don't think rationally, I doubt if he went out looking for her he would leave his cell at home.

Why would he go out looking for her without first calling or texting?
Again, if his last words with LS were open ended or innocuous at say around 1:00am... he would not know her whereabouts. A reasonable assumption would be that she would be at her apt at SW. If there was this web of jealous intrigue whereby buddies would "tip him off", wouldn't it make sense they would just call or text him? How likely is it that someone crept over to JW's and quietly alerted him and kept everything off the phones? That would be conspiratorial and leading to premeditation. There really is nothing to support this, but sure if you want to prosecute others you need to rule out these remote possibilities.
 
When I said the POI were 'manipulating the media', I meant they are trying to manipulate the facts of this case.

Since June 2011, the POI have used lawyers, friends, parents and "anonymous insiders" to try to spin the facts and spread misinformation at the same time that they have refused to 'officially' commit to a story of what happened that night or take an LE polygraph.

Like one recent topic of conversation: How CR's lawyer publicly claimed that Lauren was "helping" CR home, when video evidence would show the exact opposite. There are countless other examples in these pages of the distortions, omissions and lies that have been exposed since the first versions of their stories. But every time these are exposed, they just deny all responsibility and blame someone else.

This past week, I think CR and JW tried to discredit the Spierers and LE on the one date that there would be national attention to Lauren's case. They did this by making unsubstantiated claims and accusations and trying to paint themselves as the victims -- making the story about them, in the present (this attention is hurting their careers, wah!), instead of being about the actual victim and the night she went missing.

This to me, is nothing like being 'media savvy'. JMO
 
When I said the POI were 'manipulating the media', I meant they are trying to manipulate the facts of this case.

Since June 2011, the POI have used lawyers, friends, parents and "anonymous insiders" to try to spin the facts and spread misinformation at the same time that they have refused to 'officially' commit to a story of what happened that night or take an LE polygraph.

Like one recent topic of conversation: How CR's lawyer publicly claimed that Lauren was "helping" CR home, when video evidence would show the exact opposite. There are countless other examples in these pages of the distortions, omissions and lies that have been exposed since the first versions of their stories. But every time these are exposed, they just deny all responsibility and blame someone else.

This past week, I think CR and JW tried to discredit the Spierers and LE on the one date that there would be national attention to Lauren's case. They did this by making unsubstantiated claims and accusations and trying to paint themselves as the victims -- making the story about them, in the present (this attention is hurting their careers, wah!), instead of being about the actual victim and the night she went missing.

This to me, is nothing like being 'media savvy'. JMO

No... nothing media savvy by their moves at all. Pretty stupid actually.

But for accuracy's sake JW didn't say anything did he? Wasn't it all on his parents? Or was he quoted as well?
 
LS had no pockets. She was wearing leggings. That is how JR would know. Anything she had with her, she had to be carrying in her hands.

Yay and Nay BCityBird. I thought she had no pockets too... but recently the discussion about her Jacket (which had pockets) emerged. Follow the Jacket... and So...

1) She fell nose down (Unconscious) upon exiting the alley at just before 3:00am. She did not put her hands up to block (per the PI's who describe this video). This means that she would not be "carrying" anything and explains quite readily why her wallet/purse and keys were found very close to that spot. Inconsistent it is... that the other 2 items are seen by JR in her possession. What we do not know is if the Jacket was with her at this point, or where she may have been separated from it. The only other place I could consider her stowing them would be in a bra. And if they were removed from there, that would indicate someone checked her person.
Someone very close to LS would know if she had a habit of keeping her ID/KEYCARD or even a CC in her bra when going out. Gut feel is that when she fell, these 2 items either already were in someone else's possession OR were picked up with her. It's most likely that CR picked her up at this point and rightly someone asks why CR did not pick up her wallet and keys.

2) Looking at this from another direction... why would she have Keys in her hand, wallet/purse in her hand, and yet fake ID/Keycard also out and in hand at this point? Would it not make sense to put the fake ID and keycard into the wallet/purse? She was not able to stand when they went into SW... I have asked a few times... who used her Keycard to get into sW? was it her or CR? The reason I'm asking is that if it were CR it may indicate that he had possession of at least the Keycard. Some of that may be on video.
At the same time... if she actually used her keycard herself it might be observed where she retrieved it from (on video?) and then if she put it back. And still that does not explain why she would also still have the fake ID out... all the way to JR's while also juggling wallet and keys.


3) I find it rather odd that someone would have their lifeline (phone) in their hands, along with; shoes, keys, wallet, and 2 loose cards.... going on to lose everything except the fake ID and keycard when the person went down (unconscious) . If you are losing all of that important stuff, clearly you are in bad shape, but quite inconsistent that you magically retain these 2 items when you have no pockets. - unless these 2 items were in a Jacket.
 
Thanks, bx2 (and BCityBird) for the clarification. What made me wonder is the part of the USA Today article that suggest LS told JW she was going to bed (but then went out). That might suggest a change of feelings (or that she wanted to go out, and he was controlling?), but it's also coming from JW's dad (and JW by extension, I suppose).

Here's the quote: "Alan Wolff said his son, Jesse, was texting him from his house the previous night as a Knicks basketball playoff game was under way on television. He said his son was texting, back and forth, with Spierer that night and that 'she indicated to him that she was home and going to sleep.' He texted to her that 'if you wake up, call me and we'll talk.' Then he went to bed, the father said."

I thought the article in its entirety was horrible. I guess the point the W's were trying to make (above) was that JW didn't know LS' whereabouts so couldn't be involved.

Agreed... and so the only way JW could know is if someone alerted him in person and in stealth and then he in turn acted in stealth as well. (Not at all likely)
 
Abbey, something you just said in your above post got me thinking about CR's level of intoxication.

While we know that Lauren was much worse off than CR due to witness statements and video surveillance (she was barely functioning), CR's role as the one who was assisting her in getting around caused me to wonder-- just how intoxicated was he? I am inclined to think he also did drugs/drank on that night, but I have wondered how coherent he was (clearly he was able to walk and talk when seen by witnesses). There was the story about CR vomiting on the floor at his apartment (I would hope LE was able to confirm this with forensics), but with the "head injury" noise, I don't know what the vomit is supposedly attributed to (intoxication, head injury, or I have wondered if it was actually a reaction to Lauren dying).

Anyways, Abbey you mentioned that CR failed to pick up Lauren's personal items that she dropped. I am not surprised that he did not grab her items from Kilroy's (it was probably busy, crowded and he might not have known where they were). But, when they were walking along alone and she dropped her personal items (found shortly thereafter by two young men I believe) I don't know why he wouldn't have picked them up, it seems that in the quiet alone he would have noticed her drop these items. Could it be that he just didn't care and wanted to get Lauren back to 5N ASAP? Maybe. Or maybe his hands were too full supporting Lauren.

I think CR vomitting due to LS's death is very possible.
I wonder how people react when giving someone CPR or mouth to mouth only to realize the person is dead? Mentally I think my reaction would be the barf reflex!

Like your thoughts on the Lauren's wallet/keys too. Consider how strange it would be that under these circumstances only the keycard and fake ID remain clutched in her hand... not likely eh?
 
Agreed... and so the only way JW could know is if someone alerted him in person and in stealth and then he in turn acted in stealth as well. (Not at all likely)

He lived a few blocks away. It's not like he lived a few states away. Plus she was at a place he might guess she'd be at if he somehow suspected she wasn't home and had went looking. So even if nobody told him where she was it's possible in theory that he could've found her just by staking out a certain area or putting two and two together.

It's no great reach to at least consider it wouldn't have taken much detective work on his part to find her if he was looking at that hour. Especially if he suspected she was with another guy and had heard about the Indy 500 trip, CR, JR's parties, etc...
 
Fox59 has learned Rossman's roommate, Mike Beth, told a friend Lauren Spierer was at their apartment early in the morning. That friend, who spoke to Fox59 on the condition of anonymity, said Beth told him Rossman drank a lot that night and went home and passed out. The friend said Beth tried to convince Lauren to stay that night because it was so late. Lauren didn't and Beth saw her leave.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...rest-in-spierer-case-20110610,0,4732233.story

I wanted to bring back this quote from a June 10, 2011 article. This article was written a week after Lauren disappeared and if correct, MB was telling friends within days of Lauren's disappearance that he helped CR to bed due to CR being drunk. Apparently, MB was not attributing CR being put to bed to his so called "head injury".

I continue to believe the amnesia due to head injury is a story of convenience from Salzman/CR, and that if CR does indeed lack any memories it is due to intoxication. Clearly nobody clued MB in soon enough on what the "story" was.

Whether it is even the truth that CR was put to bed upon arriving at 5N is still up for debate. I know some people see it as very unlikely that CR was drunk due to the fact that he was the one carrying and supporting Lauren. I think it is still possible that he was pretty drunk, but in comparison to Lauren was in much better shape.
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I wonder how many friends of the POI's have little bits of stories and information that, if shared with LE and looked at all-together could reveal a larger inconsistency or perhaps hint at what is fact and what is fiction.

JMO. Also, this is written with the understanding that there may have been confusion/inconsistencies with the media articles early on in the case.
 
No... nothing media savvy by their moves at all. Pretty stupid actually.

But for accuracy's sake JW didn't say anything did he? Wasn't it all on his parents? Or was he quoted as well?

Yes, you're right.

But JW can speak any time he wants to. If he's going to let his mom talk for him, it's up to him to speak up if she's not accurately representing what he told her, IMO.
 
TG's blog post of June 18 said that LS was at Kilroy's alone and was made to leave because of her condition. The information was attributed to "a person close to the case" and "sources who were at Kilroy's."

I agree, don't want to be disrespectful to Tony, but...first we use his blogs or threads to verify something really did happen; next we are saying that if he says it, don't believe it. Can we have it both ways?
He had all these sources at Kilroy's, at one point he was saying employees and customers noticed her condition. Next everything gets vague, LE is
not backing these statements really, and then Kilroy's closed down for remodelling. But not before they got it in the papers that Lauren was mentioning she was on all kinds of drugs. And by the way, never admitting how much they served her.
Maybe the bar mgr. was with everyone at 5N, and then she and Lauren went down to 10th and College to yet another party still looking for phone (was out-of-town guest there?) around 3:38 and that's when LS hit her head. And no one let them in but out of town guest or someone at the party comes out and puts Lauren over his shoulder. They could actually have 2 videos of LS in the alley.
Someone (bar mgr)could have hurried to JRs, told him LS was in trouble/expired and he could have said, "Do what you have to, because the last time I saw her, she was turning the corner." Which could have been true because the easiest way to get to 10th and College from 5N is to turn that corner. Bar mgr. then doubles back to help. Like Tony said, someone got to these witnesses. Like LE.
Just had a thought about videos. What if LE is doing the same thing as in Mickey's case by eliminating the person(s) Lauren is walking down her hall with, on her way to Kilroy's? Because if Lauren wasn't with CR at Kilroy's, and now they're saying she was alone at Kilroy's, maybe the person she was with
wasn't familiar, perhaps she left with 2 people. DR admits to being in the hall, and it seems like in the picture Lauren is trying to keep up with him/them(?).
Two reasons why they won't reveal this mysterious person who is IMO also the last person she/JR called: either prime suspect or gave incriminating evidence in exchange for immunity.
Mysterious person=out-of-town-guest and his evidence could be false as well, double-crossing JR.
 
I think CR vomitting due to LS's death is very possible.
I wonder how people react when giving someone CPR or mouth to mouth only to realize the person is dead? Mentally I think my reaction would be the barf reflex!

Like your thoughts on the Lauren's wallet/keys too. Consider how strange it would be that under these circumstances only the keycard and fake ID remain clutched in her hand... not likely eh?
And the still unanswered question. How was her fake ID later used in evidence against Kilroy's? http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/mobile/spweb/?d=/stories/2011/09/15/news.qp-0329186.sto
There was a rumor that her fake ID was found during a search. If true, where?

I found the source of the rumor. It was in the comments section of a H-T article. The fake ID was allegedly found in a man's wallet at 12th and Walnut and the reliability of the source was questioned.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...pZXMvMjAxMS8wNi8xMy9uZXdzLnFwLTc5NzYxNTcuc3Rv
 
Did anyone post these yet? (Sorry if I missed them)

Spierer Family: Students know more than they're saying

video.foxnews.com/v/2424318810001/spierer-family-students-know-more-than-theyre-saying-/

Interview with retired FBI agent

video.foxnews.com/v/2424247417001/lauren-spierers-disappearance-baffles-investigators/

It's AMAZING to me that a retired FBI agent is completely in sync with most of us here. Unfortunately that could mean that LE does not have much more than we do... or as he indicated they need to go back through everything again and again.
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...rest-in-spierer-case-20110610,0,4732233.story

I wanted to bring back this quote from a June 10, 2011 article. This article was written a week after Lauren disappeared and if correct, MB was telling friends within days of Lauren's disappearance that he helped CR to bed due to CR being drunk. Apparently, MB was not attributing CR being put to bed to his so called "head injury".

I continue to believe the amnesia due to head injury is a story of convenience from Salzman/CR, and that if CR does indeed lack any memories it is due to intoxication. Clearly nobody clued MB in soon enough on what the "story" was.

Whether it is even the truth that CR was put to bed upon arriving at 5N is still up for debate. I know some people see it as very unlikely that CR was drunk due to the fact that he was the one carrying and supporting Lauren. I think it is still possible that he was pretty drunk, but in comparison to Lauren was in much better shape.
---------------------------------
I wonder how many friends of the POI's have little bits of stories and information that, if shared with LE and looked at all-together could reveal a larger inconsistency or perhaps hint at what is fact and what is fiction.

JMO. Also, this is written with the understanding that there may have been confusion/inconsistencies with the media articles early on in the case.

Thanks for digging this up. This is one of those stories that are inconsistent with other, more recent versions. This one says MB SAW her LEAVE, others say MB brought her to JR's. I think this is a key rift. There is a huge difference between MB's attributed stories alone, and they don't quite mesh with JR's. Further statements and analysis of the mysterious "guests" that were present at either CR/MB's and/or JR's might be able to nail down something closer to the truth.

Also the reports of MB trying to get LS to STAY seem to range from a "friendly" suggestion to something a bit more aggressive. If LS was dead or unconscious at 3:30am... then of course this would be a cover story.

I've not been able to find, but do recall early reports that had JR and others coming to CR/MB's. While I find room for other possibilities, intuition is telling me that LS was near death after that face down fall exiting the alley.
CR then picked her up, abandoning her belongings which had falling from her hands. (subject of fake ID and keycard I've posted about separately).
He managed to get her over to at least the other side of the dumpster behind 5N such that the 2 guys who saw LS's wallet/keys did not see anything else going on just a few minutes later.
Now from here it can be argued that either CR left her there and went for help OR continued to carry/drag her up to his Apt. (This is of course where Amnesia becomes really convenient) So sometime between 3:00 and 3:30 it seems indisputable that CR made it to his Apt. Yes, there were reports of CR vomiting and being put to bed. And early reports painted what seems to be a very false picture that LS was assisting with that.
More likely is that LS was dead, dying, unconscious, convulsing (NEEDING MEDICAL ATTENTION AS RET. FBI agent says). Somewhere between that lot behind 5N and JR's something happened. The key time here is 3:30 when MB called JR, and then we get the various inconsistent stories of what happened at CR/MB's and how LS got to JR's. From the beginning and common to all versions of MB's stories is that the buck gets passed to JR.
If the right dogs were used, I'm very inclined to think she was deceased before reaching 5N and that CR did not bring her up... else there would have been a hit by a dog in either CR/MB's or JR's. But if those apartments were not checked for it by that type of dog, then
she may have died either at CR/MB's, JR's or the Stairwell in between.
My gut says it was going down at 3:30 and JR & co. came over to CR/MB's
How and why JR became responsible for this situation is very curious.
In this scenario at least 2 of them are directly involved, and 2 more would have at least a very good idea of what happened.
If her body was already down near the dumpster it would mean some of them went down to verify CR's story... and someone moved her.
If she passed in CR/MB's, JR's or in between... then not only would she have been moved, but her death would have been cleaned up and concealed.
I do not see how one person could have pulled that off without planning, but I do see how panic, fear of culpability, etc... could have created a temporary and intense situation where 2 or more cooperated to hide what happened. Also agree with that Ret. FBI agent that they may have expected LS to be found and were surprised when she wasn't.

Considering that for a moment... if they figured they would make it look like she wandered off or was abducted, they need only bring her a couple blocks away and could have left her body exposed. It's happened before... she might still be very close. In fact bodies (and live abductions for that matter) more often than not, tend to be found relatively close to where they were last seen. Certainly a more detailed clean up and disposal would be more incriminating.

If you are the last person to be "proven" to be with someone who disappeared, to me you are automatically suspect. If you are the last person to say you were with someone, I think the same applies.
Here we have one person that we know may have been then last to be with her because of video, and another person who "says" he was the last to be with her. But those 2 people are inextricably linked, and tied by a 3rd - MB.
So, all 3 and their guests remain top suspects in my book... with accidental death (combined with their negligence) as the root cause, leading to a cover up.

If there is any chance of a random abduction the lack of cooperation from these 3 is surely eclipsing that remote possibility.
 
Considering msm gets it wrong all the time, I don't put any value in these early articles at all. Seems early on press wasn't aware of JR at all. He was never mentioned. That doesn't mean anything. Again, because press gets it wrong all the time.
 
Why would he go out looking for her without first calling or texting?
Again, if his last words with LS were open ended or innocuous at say around 1:00am... he would not know her whereabouts. A reasonable assumption would be that she would be at her apt at SW. If there was this web of jealous intrigue whereby buddies would "tip him off", wouldn't it make sense they would just call or text him? How likely is it that someone crept over to JW's and quietly alerted him and kept everything off the phones? That would be conspiratorial and leading to premeditation. There really is nothing to support this, but sure if you want to prosecute others you need to rule out these remote possibilities.


When I said "he" I was referring to JW. CS always said LS last use of cellphone was around midnight or shortly after. This is also key because, if she lied to JW and said she was going into sleep, perhaps she avoided his calls and texts and perhaps shut off of her phone for a little bit.

I think you misread my comments, about using his phone. Totally referring to JW. Who else was he engaging with over phone call or text, and if he really never left his house like he said he did fine. But if he did lie and left, they would be able to tell by cell phone records/pings, unless he left his phone home, which I doubt he did..
 
Agreed... and so the only way JW could know is if someone alerted him in person and in stealth and then he in turn acted in stealth as well. (Not at all likely)


I"m confuse as to how someone alerting JW in person or "in stealth" has any relevance. Why couldn't someone just call or text him? Where in your theory does an "in-person" face-to-face message relay play any significant role?
 
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