NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[rosemadderlake]

Are you asking if she went to MMQC's, and deliberately let her family wonder where she was?

Jmoose -this is a good question so I am jumping off with a couple long post thoughts...

IMO -historically, oh yes -as in SL asks MMQC, 'don't tell anyone (my parents) I am here or there'. -Like teens do, like young adults do when they are trying to escape strict rules for a while, go somewhere else with a BF, etc..

And I think parents in general are well aware of their children's moods, short burst runaways, cooling off times, too. -But they always come home...

The thought (wild spec?) occurs to me that maybe the BF/F told EL some version of what the argument was about, but El doesn't know that MMQC has no idea. And, as was mentioned, what if EL relayed these events to LE, would they have said - let's see if SL shows up at her girlfriend's house, and did that make sense at the time? So El is cautious in the beginning while searching because I think that "quiet, leave the path open" instinct kicks in sometimes especially if she was alarmed by what the BF/F said, knew her daughter was depressed, unhappy, not speaking to her father, etc... and trying to know which piece may have caused her daughter to disappear.

 

[MMQC]

Are you asking if she went to MMQC's, and deliberately let her family wonder where she was?

We both ran to each others homes but we always told our families where we were. We rode our bicycles to and from even. We lived maybe 2 miles from each other.

 

[Jmoose]

We both ran to each others homes but we always told our families where we were. We rode our bicycles to and from even. We lived maybe 2 miles from each other.

Ok, so...everyone knew immediately that this was different. Where to go from here, then?

 

[Dushi]

When Eva called that morning (2am -7am,) who answered the phone?
MMQC.. Were you asleep? Did someone else answer the phone and wake you?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

BBM-absolutely no doubt that Eva thought MMQC knew something relating to Sylvia's whereabouts-why did she think that? We know that it was Sylvia's habit to occasionally escape her universe by going to spend some time with MMQC at her house. I am just wondering why Eva thought this after MMQC indicated that she had no idea where Sylvia was. Eva was thinking something that she never articulated, at least to MMQC. What could that have been, and why would she think MMQC would spend time looking for Sylvia when she knew where she was? This reaction to Sylvia's disappearance must have contributed in part to LE's casual approach to trying to find her back in 1975. I wonder (fruitlessly, I know) if Eva expressed this feeling to the police?

Jmoose -this is a good question so I am jumping off with a couple long post thoughts...

IMO -historically, oh yes -as in SL asks MMQC, 'don't tell anyone (my parents) I am here or there'. -Like teens do, like young adults do when they are trying to escape strict rules for a while, go somewhere else with a BF, etc..

And I think parents in general are well aware of their children's moods, short burst runaways, cooling off times, too. -But they always come home...

The thought (wild spec?) occurs to me that maybe the BF/F told EL some version of what the argument was about, but El doesn't know that MMQC has no idea. And, as was mentioned, what if EL relayed these events to LE, would they have said - let's see if SL shows up at her girlfriend's house, and did that make sense at the time? So El is cautious in the beginning while searching because I think that "quiet, leave the path open" instinct kicks in sometimes especially if she was alarmed by what the BF/F said, knew her daughter was depressed, unhappy, not speaking to her father, etc... and trying to know which piece may have caused her daughter to disappear.

Both BBMs (&UL): I know we have knowledge now that the cold case squad has worked and may still be working this case. But have we seen anything to contradict "Det. Lennon advises will not handle"? I am just not sure that in 1975 they got past seeing this as an illegitimate case due to the fight and her age. If, as the two of you suggest, EL mentioned to LE that MMQC might be knowledgable about what happened to SL, wouldn't they have at least questioned her? Esp. if they thought it could put the matter to rest? It seems to me that all indications (e.g., the cc detective asking MMQC why LE didn't interview her in 1975) are that MMQC was not even on their radar in 1975.

Are you are seeing something I am not?

 

[Dushi]

Both BBMs (&UL): I know we have knowledge now that the cold case squad has worked and may still be working this case. But have we seen anything to contradict "Det. Lennon advises will not handle"? I am just not sure that in 1975 they got past seeing this as an illegitimate case due to the fight and her age. If, as the two of you suggest, EL mentioned to LE that MMQC might be knowledgable about what happened to SL, wouldn't they have at least questioned her? Esp. if they thought it could put the matter to rest? It seems to me that all indications (e.g., the cc detective asking MMQC why LE didn't interview her in 1975) are that MMQC was not even on their radar in 1975. Are you are seeing something I am not?

This is a very strong point
Wouldn't you think that is the first person they would talk to if EL thought that is where Sylvia was , especially after a few days

 

[Dushi]

Why did police not interview MMQC?
The BF/F came to her house that night
He told her about the fight and where he dropped Sylvia off, but they never approached her to hear her story

I have to wonder what impression LE was left with
Did they believe it was a simple run away case?
And why?

Sylvia was of legal age. Does that mean that LE are /were under no obligation to investigate and felt there was no need based on their interviews?

 

[Dushi]

If LE decides to list a case as Run away, is it closed or does it remain open and become a cold case?

 

[Jmoose]

Both BBMs (&UL): I know we have knowledge now that the cold case squad has worked and may still be working this case. But have we seen anything to contradict "Det. Lennon advises will not handle"? I am just not sure that in 1975 they got past seeing this as an illegitimate case due to the fight and her age. If, as the two of you suggest, EL mentioned to LE that MMQC might be knowledgable about what happened to SL, wouldn't they have at least questioned her? Esp. if they thought it could put the matter to rest? It seems to me that all indications (e.g., the cc detective asking MMQC why LE didn't interview her in 1975) are that MMQC was not even on their radar in 1975.

Are you are seeing something I am not?

You would certainly think that they would quiz MMQC in this situation, right? And yet, they didn't-she was not, as you say, on their radar. I attribute that to the possibility of maybe a little laziness on the part of the police-for instance, thinking that if her friend knows where she is, Sylvia will either turn up on her own when she's ready, or the parents can get MMQC to tell them, so they didn't have to expend any energy on the case.

Or, maybe Eva never expressed the notion that MMQC might know, and the police knew nothing of her (MMQC). I am struggling with the idea, as I think we all are, that these particular police officers just decided to leave Sylvia's disappearance alone, without putting any work into it-trying to find a logical explanation other than "she is an adult, with the right to leave and tell nobody where she's headed". They didn't do anything, it seems, and I think there is a reason-maybe a bad one, like they were too lazy, or the BF/F had associates in the right places, or a good one, like they knew she deliberately disappeared willingly and didn't want to look back. I don't know anything that everyone here doesn't know-just ruminating on why the cops never did anything with this case in 1975-why would Lennon write that note?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

If LE decides to list a case as Run away, is it closed or does it remain open and become a cold case?

This has totally been bugging me as a procedural matter, esp. after reading The Restless Sleep. I have NO IDEA how this case went from "missing" to "cold case." Stacy Horn specifically says, when giving murder stats, that they don't count the missing. My impression was that CC only takes on homicides. I imagine that unsolved runaway/missing cases do stay open and grow cold, I just got the idea that the CC squad doesn't take them on. JMoose, did you get that impression too? So how did this case climb the ladder? Perhaps after a certain amount of time passes, with no explanation for her disappearance, she is declared "legally dead" and it moves up that way? Grasping for straws, don't know at all.

 

[Dushi]

This has totally been bugging me as a procedural matter, esp. after reading The Restless Sleep. I have NO IDEA how this case went from "missing" to "cold case." Stacy Horn specifically says, when giving murder stats, that they don't count the missing. My impression was that CC only takes on homicides. I imagine that unsolved runaway/missing cases do stay open and grow cold, I just got the idea that the CC squad doesn't take them on. JMoose, did you get that impression too? So how did this case climb the ladder? Perhaps after a certain amount of time passes, with no explanation for her disappearance, she is declared "legally dead" and it moves up that way? Grasping for straws, don't know at all.

Would the status of a case change if there was added pressure from a family member?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

So one thing I'm thinking now connects back to "the sucker theory" I posted earlier.

If SL did plan to break up with the BF/F that night, mb bc of what the two families had gone through so far (engagement announcement, engagement party), SL might have talked about it with her mother first -- out of respect for the social repercussions for her mother, and bc she needed to. It could not have been an easy decision, and the prospect of "the talk" would have been daunting for anyone.

If I were EL, and I knew what I knew, and then I heard (1) the BF/F's story, and (2) MMQC's story, I might just be stunned into silence. Knowing what SL planned would make SL's disappearance instantly suspect to me. Would probably send off a frightening string of Qs in my mind, starting with What went wrong? I would be panicked. It might even rise to the level of a medical diagnosis: shock. Maybe the silence started bc she couldn't articulate her confused thoughts? And then, mb a generalized suspicion grew bc of what she knew? If she was not a suspicious person before, she might become one -- these kinds of events can be personality altering, IMO.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Would the status of a case change if there was added pressure from a family member?

I am not sure. The way SH presents it, families do this all the time, but unless there's something in the case file, the detectives are deadlocked. In fact, some of the stories she relates, which show families staying on LE's case for decades, are completely heartbreaking. It's equally heartbreaking that the detectives care, but often can do nothing.

Also, JMoose at one point brought up the statute of limitations, which is a great point. LE wants prosecutable cases for practical reasons and "for the numbers."

Other than the legal death declaration, the only other thing I could think of was that she may be seen as a potential Rand/Biegenwald victim. But I am guessing. As I said, completely baffled by this.

 

[Dushi]

Ok, just thinking aloud...

Say if Sylvias intentions that night were to end it and she spoke to her Mom about it.

I certainly can only imagine how life changing it would be if your daughter disappeared after such a talk and I so get the shock of it all.

And under the circumstances I would be suspect also
I imagine those first weeks and months were He** for EL

But I think after the initial shock and fear, I would wonder why there was no contact with me

Unless of course I didn't agree with her decision to break it off
That might lead me to believe she was out there and wanted no further contact, and I would also wonder if she had kept in contact with her best friend


Rambling.........

 

[Dushi]

I know everyone handles things differently
But me? If I was making a life altering decision, like breaking my engagement, I would certainly talk it over with my closest friend

Likely my Mom , but certainly my BFForever


When BF/F spoke to El,did he say they had an argument or did he tell her that Sylvia broke the engagement? Wish I knew

 

[Jmoose]

I know everyone handles things differently
But me? If I was making a life altering decision, like breaking my engagement, I would certainly talk it over with my closest friend

Likely my Mom , but certainly my BFForever


When BF/F spoke to El,did he say they had an argument or did he tell her that Sylvia broke the engagement? Wish I knew

Remember, Eva reported her missing and still in possession of her engagement ring

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Ok, just thinking aloud...

Say if Sylvias intentions that night were to end it and she spoke to her Mom about it.

I certainly can only imagine how life changing it would be if your daughter disappeared after such a talk and I so get the shock of it all.

And under the circumstances I would be suspect also
I imagine those first weeks and months were He** for EL

But I think after the initial shock and fear, I would wonder why there was no contact with me

Unless of course I didn't agree with her decision to break it off
That might lead me to believe she was out there and wanted no further contact, and I would also wonder if she had kept in contact with her best friend

Rambling.........

BBM1: Yes, def. And if I knew she planned to break up with the BF/F, I would wonder why she told me that, but not that she planned to run away.

BBM2: That's a really good point. I can barely bring myself to think about the fact that their last words could have been a disagreement, bc that would have been so painful. But that def. would explain why she kept looking and thought MMQC knew something.

 

[Dushi]

Remember, Eva reported her missing and still in possession of her engagement ring

Absolutely!!

Eva wasted no time in reporting her missing
If she thought Sylvia left and if eva knew the reason, would she have done that?
Or would she have waited for a day or two for her to resurface?



(TY to Epiphany for bring those posts forward about that night )

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Remember, Eva reported her missing and still in possession of her engagement ring

True! But I think this could still have happened. I mean, given the state of things, it may not have been a detail either considered in the moment? The BF/F may not have given details, EL may have been unsure if the convo went as SL planned ... the Q from LE may have been "what was she wearing when she left the house that night?" However, all speculation.

 

[Dushi]

How do I put this so that its not deleted...........

The details given to Eva would vary greatly, depending on the level of involvement of the person telling the story IMO