NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[rosemadderlake]

Bringing MMQC's post forward... Thread #1 post 728

"Not sure of age when she came to US. VI should help with that info.

PI hired? not sure of the time line but when I heard from SL's mother this happened and I was followed, you could have cooked an egg on my face then.[/I]"
(end quote)

bbm: MMQC - do you recall when EL told you that she had you followed? --Soon after SL's disappearance or years later?

IMO- I think the BF/F definitely told EL some version of the nature of the argument which could have been big, like a possible break up. MMQC had no idea what the argument was about, but EL did not know that, and she had both the BF/F & MMQC followed... Makes me think it must have been big. Was anyone from Wagner, pool party on the PI list or followed? -Or just MMQC & BF/F?


--Some other thoughts are-

I too wonder why MMQC (given the more fleshed out timeline) was never questioned by police in 1975? --But I think it is very possible her parents spoke with the ADA, and relayed their piece of the events of that night - because MMQC's father searched that night with her and LE knew the source.

I think with the prompting of the ADA, LE must have done some initial or further questioning and investigating. What did LE find out? -If the glasses were not returned to the family, then where is the information coming from that the glasses were "found broken in his car"? Who found the glasses broken in the BF/F's car? Why are they listed as "left in car" on the PR?

-I would think that "broken prescription glasses" would be the very piece that would prompt further investigation and even change the MP classification. --Perhaps even give the family legal recourse to light a fire under LE, initiate a search for her body, when their PI efforts did not return Sylvia...

But if the glasses are not broken and were handed over to LE by the BF/F, then there's not much evidence on the surface to investigate. So, how in the absence of evidence does one find out what really happened?

 

[Dushi]

Bringing MMQC's post forward... Thread #1 post 728

"Not sure of age when she came to US. VI should help with that info.

PI hired? not sure of the time line but when I heard from SL's mother this happened and I was followed, you could have cooked an egg on my face then.[/I]"
(end quote)

bbm: MMQC - do you recall when EL told you that she had you followed? --Soon after SL's disappearance or years later?

IMO- I think the BF/F definitely told EL some version of the nature of the argument which could have been big, like a possible break up. MMQC had no idea what the argument was about, but EL did not know that, and she had both the BF/F & MMQC followed... Makes me think it must have been big. Was anyone from Wagner, pool party on the PI list or followed? -Or just MMQC & BF/F?


--Some other thoughts are-

I too wonder why MMQC (given the more fleshed out timeline) was never questioned by police in 1975? --But I think it is very possible her parents spoke with the ADA, and relayed their piece of the events of that night - because MMQC's father searched that night with her and LE knew the source.

I think with the prompting of the ADA, LE must have done some initial or further questioning and investigating. What did LE find out? -If the glasses were not returned to the family, then where is the information coming from that the glasses were "found broken in his car"? Who found the glasses broken in the BF/F's car? Why are they listed as "left in car" on the PR?

-I would think that "broken prescription glasses" would be the very piece that would prompt further investigation and even change the MP classification. --Perhaps even give the family legal recourse to light a fire under LE, initiate a search for her body, when their PI efforts did not return Sylvia...

But if the glasses are not broken and were handed over to LE by the BF/F, then there's not much evidence on the surface to investigate. So, how in the absence of evidence does one find out what really happened?[/QUOTE]




Next to impossible unless someone talks IMO

 

[Dushi]

I can't recall where the broken glasses found in car came from but I am thinking deerhunter?

My recall is not what it once was

 

[Dushi]

The thing about the ADA..

If detectives had taken the case seriously, I would think regardless of what the ADA said,and even after speaking to MMQC's dad, they still would have interviewed her

MMQC's dad wasn't with Sylvia that day leading up to her disappearance, MMQC was

 

[Dushi]

All of the things about this case, all of the things that make us go hmmmmmmmmmm can be interpreted in several ways

Pool party incident and argument with dad
Fight with boyfriend
Not coming home
Even the broken glasses( thrown in a fit of anger)
Depression

Some would read it and say she ran away
Some may say suicide (although what would she do that she could never be found)
Some see foul play

 

[Dushi]

The thing that just doesn't fit is BF/F's lack of compassion
Is it based on guilt and fear or was he so hurt and angered by whatever happened between them

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Bringing MMQC's post forward... Thread #1 post 728

"Not sure of age when she came to US. VI should help with that info.

PI hired? not sure of the time line but when I heard from SL's mother this happened and I was followed, you could have cooked an egg on my face then.[/I]"
(end quote)

bbm: MMQC - do you recall when EL told you that she had you followed? --Soon after SL's disappearance or years later?

IMO- I think the BF/F definitely told EL some version of the nature of the argument which could have been big, like a possible break up. MMQC had no idea what the argument was about, but EL did not know that, and she had both the BF/F & MMQC followed... Makes me think it must have been big. Was anyone from Wagner, pool party on the PI list or followed? -Or just MMQC & BF/F?

--Some other thoughts are-

I too wonder why MMQC (given the more fleshed out timeline) was never questioned by police in 1975? --But I think it is very possible her parents spoke with the ADA, and relayed their piece of the events of that night - because MMQC's father searched that night with her and LE knew the source.

I think with the prompting of the ADA, LE must have done some initial or further questioning and investigating. What did LE find out? -If the glasses were not returned to the family, then where is the information coming from that the glasses were "found broken in his car"? Who found the glasses broken in the BF/F's car? Why are they listed as "left in car" on the PR?

-I would think that "broken prescription glasses" would be the very piece that would prompt further investigation and even change the MP classification. --Perhaps even give the family legal recourse to light a fire under LE, initiate a search for her body, when their PI efforts did not return Sylvia...

But if the glasses are not broken and were handed over to LE by the BF/F, then there's not much evidence on the surface to investigate. So, how in the absence of evidence does one find out what really happened?

BBM2 (1st B is Rose's): Is that a hunch, Rose -- the part about the BF/F -- or did we hear something about that on the thread? I think this is pretty important to assessing EL's view of the potential involvement of the BF/F, and I just want to be sure. If it's a hunch, it seems reasonable, but I am wondering if mb it was in one of ASWDH's posts? I am not remembering ...

BBM3: That's an excellent point! Duh! You would think from this that MMQC would be on LE's radar, bc MMQC said that this prompted LE to start investigating. Here's MMQC's partial post 901from T1, BBM/ULBM:

"... My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE. Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE. They said they would follow up with all names SL's parents gave them. I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again."​

Unless ... like Epiphany said, MMQC's father asked the ADA to leave MMQC out of it, OR bc of what they learned from the BF/F they didn't feel the need to go any further? This is hard to grasp (both why they would't check with her -- presumably she'd be on that list -- and keeping all these facts straight!)

It's interesting to be reminded that this is where the "sucker" statement comes from (ULBM). He may have made it just after recently being Q'd by LE. Was he "made a sucker of" bc he had to tell LE that SL ended their engagement? Was he laughed at? Did he show them the ring? Have they known about him having the ring all this time?

 

[Dushi]

The ring is a big question mark
It is only hearsay that says he has it
I don't think anyone knows for sure

And as GBMG stated, in the PR it says she was wearing it when she left the house.
We do not know whether she gave it back to him some time that night
THIS could be what they argued about

If innocent, it is not impossible that he was hurt and embarrassed about Sylvia breaking the engagement ( just speculating)

Its also possible that because of his emotions (just speculating) he did not share that with EL

 

[alliemay]

So we need facts about the ring and the glasses. Report said the glasses where let in car. IN WHAT CONDITION? If they were broke how bad, was the glass smashed to pieces, or did one of the arms break, or did a nose piece come off? Mind boggling to say the least.

 

[Dushi]

I don't recall if the report said that her glasses were left in the car?
Its possible, I just don't remember

NamUs has glasses listed as part of her attire
so if it is stated in the PR that she threw and broke her glasses, is it possible that was unknown when the namUs report was filed?

Or at least could it be that the person who filed the NamUs report was not aware of the glasses at that time?

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM2 (1st B is Rose's): Is that a hunch, Rose -- the part about the BF/F -- or did we hear something about that on the thread? I think this is pretty important to assessing EL's view of the potential involvement of the BF/F, and I just want to be sure. If it's a hunch, it seems reasonable, but I am wondering if mb it was in one of ASWDH's posts? I am not remembering ...

BBM3: That's an excellent point! Duh! You would think from this that MMQC would be on LE's radar, bc MMQC said that this prompted LE to start investigating. Here's MMQC's partial post 901from T1, BBM/ULBM:

"... My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE. Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE. They said they would follow up with all names SL's parents gave them. I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again."​

Unless ... like Epiphany said, MMQC's father asked the ADA to leave MMQC out of it, OR bc of what they learned from the BF/F they didn't feel the need to go any further? This is hard to grasp (both why they would't check with her -- presumably she'd be on that list -- and keeping all these facts straight!)

It's interesting to be reminded that this is where the "sucker" statement comes from (ULBM). He may have made it just after recently being Q'd by LE. Was he "made a sucker of" bc he had to tell LE that SL ended their engagement? Was he laughed at? Did he show them the ring? Have they known about him having the ring all this time?

Uh oh... Too many bbms!!!!!!

Re: bbm2: The PI: (is what you are referring to?) ASWDH said all the PI turned up was 3 versions of the BF/F's "ran from the car" location story. Based on that (IMO) I am assuming the BF/F was followed. --And MMQC was told she was followed.

ULBM? (uh oh what does that stand for?)

BBM: ...The ring. Very interesting! -Could explain the BF/F hostility. ...Rejected and suspected.

 

[Dushi]

LOL, Underlined By Me

 

[Jmoose]

I know everyone handles things differently
But me? If I was making a life altering decision, like breaking my engagement, I would certainly talk it over with my closest friend

Likely my Mom , but certainly my BFForever


When BF/F spoke to El,did he say they had an argument or did he tell her that Sylvia broke the engagement? Wish I knew

BBM-I would tell my friend first before telling my mother, because it would be easier. I wonder if it's true that she wanted to break their engagement; it would explain why there could be a rift between Sylvia and her mother, if Mrs L didn't support her decision. But why wouldn't her mother support her decision? MMQC or ASWDH-any hint of Sylvia wanting to break her engagement that either of you know of?

 

[Jmoose]

Bringing MMQC's post forward... Thread #1 post 728

"Not sure of age when she came to US. VI should help with that info.

PI hired? not sure of the time line but when I heard from SL's mother this happened and I was followed, you could have cooked an egg on my face then.[/I]"
(end quote)

bbm: MMQC - do you recall when EL told you that she had you followed? --Soon after SL's disappearance or years later?

IMO- I think the BF/F definitely told EL some version of the nature of the argument which could have been big, like a possible break up. MMQC had no idea what the argument was about, but EL did not know that, and she had both the BF/F & MMQC followed... Makes me think it must have been big. Was anyone from Wagner, pool party on the PI list or followed? -Or just MMQC & BF/F?


--Some other thoughts are-

I too wonder why MMQC (given the more fleshed out timeline) was never questioned by police in 1975? --But I think it is very possible her parents spoke with the ADA, and relayed their piece of the events of that night - because MMQC's father searched that night with her and LE knew the source.

I think with the prompting of the ADA, LE must have done some initial or further questioning and investigating. What did LE find out? -If the glasses were not returned to the family, then where is the information coming from that the glasses were "found broken in his car"? Who found the glasses broken in the BF/F's car? Why are they listed as "left in car" on the PR?

-I would think that "broken prescription glasses" would be the very piece that would prompt further investigation and even change the MP classification. --Perhaps even give the family legal recourse to light a fire under LE, initiate a search for her body, when their PI efforts did not return Sylvia...

But if the glasses are not broken and were handed over to LE by the BF/F, then there's not much evidence on the surface to investigate. So, how in the absence of evidence does one find out what really happened?[/QUOTE]




Next to impossible unless someone talks IMO

Yes-this is what Stacy Horn told me when we corresponded-that if she was hurt by another person, in absence of witnesses, or a body, only a confession would really help.

 

[Jmoose]

I don't recall if the report said that her glasses were left in the car?
Its possible, I just don't remember

NamUs has glasses listed as part of her attire
so if it is stated in the PR that she threw and broke her glasses, is it possible that was unknown when the namUs report was filed?

Or at least could it be that the person who filed the NamUs report was not aware of the glasses at that time?

I don't think the police report said that the glasses were found in the car-only that they were part of her attire. I believe that the only place it says it is on her page on The Charley Project site, and we don't know where that information came from. ASWDH said somewhere in a past message that it didn't come from him

 

[Jmoose]

:blushing:

The thing about the ADA..

If detectives had taken the case seriously, I would think regardless of what the ADA said,and even after speaking to MMQC's dad, they still would have interviewed her

MMQC's dad wasn't with Sylvia that day leading up to her disappearance, MMQC was

Right-and she was the one who spoke to BF/F, not her father.

 

[Dushi]

I don't think the police report said that the glasses were found in the car-only tat they were part of her attire. I believe that the only place it says it is on her page on The Charley Project site, and we don't know where that information came from. ASWDH said somewhere in a past message that it didn't come from him

The Charley Project is the site where the newspapers were unaccessible?

Then, we do not know for sure if her glasses were left behind or broken?

That is the only source?

 

[rosemadderlake]

So one thing I'm thinking now connects back to "the sucker theory" I posted earlier.

If SL did plan to break up with the BF/F that night, mb bc of what the two families had gone through so far (engagement announcement, engagement party), SL might have talked about it with her mother first -- out of respect for the social repercussions for her mother, and bc she needed to. It could not have been an easy decision, and the prospect of "the talk" would have been daunting for anyone.

If I were EL, and I knew what I knew, and then I heard (1) the BF/F's story, and (2) MMQC's story, I might just be stunned into silence. Knowing what SL planned would make SL's disappearance instantly suspect to me. Would probably send off a frightening string of Qs in my mind, starting with What went wrong? I would be panicked. It might even rise to the level of a medical diagnosis: shock. Maybe the silence started bc she couldn't articulate her confused thoughts? And then, mb a generalized suspicion grew bc of what she knew? If she was not a suspicious person before, she might become one -- these kinds of events can be personality altering, IMO.

bbm: Or, there were doubts and unhappiness (the what if-s) expressed by SL with her mom. This ties into "depressed" on the PR. (imo)

 

[rosemadderlake]

The Charley Project is the site where the newspapers were unaccessible?

Then, we do not know for sure if her glasses were left behind or broken?

That is the only source?

bbm: AFIK -Yes.

 

[Jmoose]

The Charley Project is the site where the newspapers were unaccessible?

Then, we do not know for sure if her glasses were left behind or broken?

That is the only source?

I don't know why, but I believe that the glasses were found, broken, in his car. This is my hunch, regardless of the erroneous references to the two Pennsylvania newspapers. Somebody had to deliberately add that information, and we know it didn't come from any newspaper, because there was no publicity desired-who would have added it, if it wasn't one of our VIs?

Edited to add-The glasses were definitely found in the car, by BF/F's own words-it wouldn't be a stretch that they were broken, since he said she threw them...