General Discussion Thread #4

[Pisto_lius]

Snipped


A few days ago I found this interesting video - hope you can watch it, too


Oscar Pistorius Crime Scene Animation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9Ae0aQCLv-c


Unfortunately, OP is shown like wearing his prosthesis from the beginning

But at 4:18 you can see how Reeva sat at the toilet - if she really sat there when Oscar fired his shots through the door.

As we know she was hit only at the right side of her body so there must have been traces of blood on THIS side of the toilet bowl

And now remind the leaked photo with the traces of blood in the toilet which showed a large pool of blood on the ground of the middle resp. the OTHER side of the toilet bowl - this would be the LEFT side of Reeva's body.



Even the traces of blood on the toilet seat were mostly on this (wrong) side.

In addition, there was only one large pool of blood on the floor but Reeva was also hit in the hip and arm.

Although perhaps most of the blood of her hip wound was absorbed by her clothing and / or this wound bled inwards, there should be another spot of blood from this wound on the floor.

Next point: OP claimed in his affidavit he battled to get Reeva out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom.

Reeva had long hair and her hair were full of blood because of the head wound. If he pulled her into the bathroom wouldn't her hair left more bloody sanding marks?


To me - nothing of this photo fits to OP's affidavit.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Does anyone have a view as to what the 3 forensic markers on the floor might be for? They appear to be immediately under the door (if it were closed). Also in Botha's evidence he stated that forensics indicated that Reeva was crouching behind the toilet not sitting on it. Would there have been more dragged blood marks if this were the case?

 

[Estelle]

Off Topic

So many depressing murders.

Maybe time for a fiction break?

In case you forgot, Dexter in just 3 days.

Yes, maybe more murders but at least they are fictional.

And a good way to learn some forensic science--which is very relevant to OP case.

10 Athletes who were charged with murder and what happened later (one of these is OP)

http://www.break.com/pictures/accused-oscar-pistorius-2472083

 

[shane13]

Does anyone have a view as to what the 3 forensic markers on the floor might be for? They appear to be immediately under the door (if it were closed). Also in Botha's evidence he stated that forensics indicated that Reeva was crouching behind the toilet not sitting on it. Would there have been more dragged blood marks if this were the case?

I think maybe we should beware of taking this photo too seroiusly.

I pointed out that we can see the photographer who sold this photo in a reflection in the shower door.
So this is not an official photo, but one where the forensics person went back and took this photo to sell.

I also pointed out that it may be deliberately cropped so as to not see the top of the door--where the other 2 bullet holes may be. (Or else they were in the bashed out panel.)

So those "markers" may mean nothing--could have fallen out of the guy's pockets or such.

 

[shane13]

10 Athletes who were charged with murder and what happened later (one of these is OP)

http://www.break.com/pictures/accused-oscar-pistorius-2472083

A strange list.
Includes Reuben Hurricane Carter--who records indicate police knew from witnesses on day one, was somewhere else when the crime went down.
If not seen, I recommend the film, Hurricane--with deleted scenes on the DVD.

And sad to say that the federal judge who granted habeas corpus and release of Carter, said that with recent changes made to federal law or administration of same, he would not now be allowed to release the innocent man.

 

[whiterum]

Does anyone have a view as to what the 3 forensic markers on the floor might be for? They appear to be immediately under the door (if it were closed). Also in Botha's evidence he stated that forensics indicated that Reeva was crouching behind the toilet not sitting on it. Would there have been more dragged blood marks if this were the case?

I think an earlier poster pointed out those forensic markers indicate the bloody drag marks on the floor.

 

[Patticake]

Back to topic

Oscar to Return to Low-Key Track Routine

Somebody surprised?

-------

And a Yahoo article with a photo of the bearded and "emotional" Pistorius:

http://news.yahoo.com/emotional-pistorius-resumes-track-routine-135140442.html

'Emotional' Pistorius resumes track routine

Pistorius' return to training was seen in a brief video clip released by his family. In the footage, which is around two minutes long, the athlete is first sitting on a chair at his usual training track at the university pulling on his running blades. He then does some light jogging on the sunbathed track and, finally, wipes his face with both hands as he walks off the track, hinting at the emotion Van Zyl described.

 

[whiterum]

In the crime scene video regarding the blood shown to be on the stair walls. AC in the video refers to these as flecks, RP referred to the blood on the stair walls as swipes in his interview.

“There were also swipes on the wall where he carried her down the steps. And we can tell that by the time she got to the bottom of the steps she was already dead.”

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-it-s-all-about-the-toilet-door-1.1476183#.Ua5_CRG9KK3

I'm no expert on blood patterns but even I could tell that the blood spots shown on those stair walls are IMO definitely not swipes, I don't think they could be referred to as flecks either.


http://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=073d#/watch?v=Sop_t4T6jn8&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Sop_t4T6jn8


I wonder where on the stair walls this blood spatter would be, as there is a darker beige coloured border at the right side of the picture like carpet when turned sideways ( 1:51 on the video) Those blood spots seem to me as if they had been flicked with some force onto the walls. Seems weird to me anyway can't understand how that could happen with supposedly gently carrying a critically injured bleeding woman down a flight of stairs.

 

[shane13]

-------

And a Yahoo article with a photo of the bearded and "emotional" Pistorius:

http://news.yahoo.com/emotional-pistorius-resumes-track-routine-135140442.html

'Emotional' Pistorius resumes track routine

Here Patti is the new video that your article cites.

Oscar Pistorius Returns To Training - YouTube

Does he look emotional to you?

 

[shane13]

Does anyone know where Oscar lived in relation to the security entrance?

I told a friend this whole sad saga, and the first thing she asked was, “Why didn’t security people immediately go to OP’s house after the first shot?
I.e, 17 minutes earlier.

I think I read or once saw that OP’s house is near the gate, but can’t find proof.

Does anyone know how far or near his house is to the security gate?

TIA

 

[Pisto_lius]

Does anyone know where Oscar lived in relation to the security entrance?

I told a friend this whole sad saga, and the first thing she asked was, “Why didn’t security people immediately go to OP’s house after the first shot?
I.e, 17 minutes earlier.

I think I read or once saw that OP’s house is near the gate, but can’t find proof.

Does anyone know how far or near his house is to the security gate?

TIA

Shazam

 

[Pisto_lius]

BIB 1 - Does anyone have a view as to what the 3 forensic markers on the floor might be for? They appear to be immediately under the door (if it were closed). BIB 2 - Also in Botha's evidence he stated that forensics indicated that Reeva was crouching behind the toilet not sitting on it. BIB 3 - Would there have been more dragged blood marks if this were the case?

BIB 1 - Maybe this 3 forensic markers show the place they found the 3 cartridge cases?

But: allegedly 4 shots through the door but only 3 cartridge cases in front of the door....

But maybe the 4th (they found in the hallway) was kicked away when OP pulled Reeva into the bathroom?


BIB 2 - I think Botha was wrong in this point because if Reeva was crouching behind the toilet

a) how then the bullets could hit her on the right side of her body? The space behind the toilet is too narrow.

If the bullets hit her in a crouching posture on ​​the right side of her body, her face must have shown towards the wall opposite the toilet bowl.

b) how then one of the bullets could hit her hip? If she was crouching her hip was behind (saved by) the toilet bowl.


BIB 3 - I think so and I said it before: The blood marks of the toilet phote (to me) only show the (most bleeding) blood mark of her head wound. And immediately after this shot she collapsed and fell to the ground. Maybe she still tried to cling herself onto the toilet bowl when she fell and smudged the blood dripping on the toilet seat with her arms/hands.

In any case, I still have seriously doubt she was hit three times in the toilet.

 

[Estelle]

I tried and tried yesterday to post this but was unsuccessful so I copied it into Word so I hope it come out OK.

Glad to see I'm not any longer the only one who believe Botha was the scapegoat in the OP case
You have already listed some points that show there is something odd here. Let me add a few other points:
1. The hearing by judge Nair on Febr 19 wasn't a bail hearing but a pre-trial proceeding. Prosecutors couldn't be prepared to show all the evidence Nair claimed because at this time they were at the beginning of their investigations. But for a bail hearing that's not necessary, because the only point Nair should have clarified was whether OP get bail or not.
2. Nair ruled that bail proceedings would "go schedule 6" because he could not rule out premeditation. And for schedule 6 OP will have to show "exceptional circumstances" if he wants to get bail.
OP got bail but what were the "exceptional circumstances" Nair accepted for bail?
Really very "exceptional circumstances"…..
And further very interesting: Nair said:
So. WHY Nair then granted bail???
3. Nair blamed Botha for several “mistakes”
- Nair DIDN’T blame DT for withhold the 5th phone – and why didn't Nel immediately protest to this point???
- Nair DIDN’T blame DT for removing the bullet they found inside the toilet bowl from the CS – and again, no comment from Nel.
DT said they found it inside the toilet bowl but is this really the truth??? No one else than the DT saw where this bullet was found. It fits to their strategy that it was inside the toilet bowl but maybe this bullet was found in actual fact elsewhere in the house?
To me this point is more important than the withhold of the 5th phone because this bullet – in addition to the toilet door – is of decisive importance for WHAT really happened and WHERE what happened.
- Why Botha was blamed for he had failed to wear protective clothing when walking through the crime scene? What kind of traces he could have contaminated? There was no need to preserve DNA evidence from the ground because it was clear there were only 2 people in the house (OP and Reeva - NO intruder) and OP admitted he shot Reeva.
4. On March 28 (bail appeal) judge Bert Bam blamed the decision of his colleague Nair as “absolutely wrong and unfair” and said many of Nair’s conditions "didn't serve any purpose". And Bam outlined "all the factors" that show that Pistorius isn't a flight risk:
- his assets in SA
- his family in SA etc.
Once more: Really very "exceptional circumstances"….. And I never seen before a court hearing in which a judge naming and shaming his colleagues this way.
5. On June 4 (pre-trail hearing) magistrate Daniel Thulare warned against “trial by media” and lambasted them for threatening the "fountains of justice" and sanctity of South Africa's courts. – What a BS! Doesn’t he know it would be a JUDGE who decides whether OP is guilty or not as charged? And didn’t he realized it’s also the DT that have an effect on the media?
This sounds (to me) like a presage of the ongoing case or even maybe of the verdict....

6. Roux said: "Steenkamp's bladder was empty. Botha could not deny it and agreed that that helped back up Pistorius's version of events."
Nel said: "There is no evidence before the court that Steenkamp's bladder was empty when she died" (as the defence have stated in order to indicate she was going to the toilet rather than hiding from Pistorius).
Nair points out: There may be other reasons why Steenkamp's bladder was empty, but says Botha was not the right witness to answer this.
7. OP lied in his affidavit about his assets. He “forgot” to mention his house in Johannesburg which he bought for 9.8 million rand (£677,000) this year. This came to light when the DT read the affidavit of OP’s friend Graham Binge who stated:
Not a single one of the media reported or wondered about these points....

Pisto_lius, congratulations on such an excellent post. :drumroll:

As you have so capably pointed out, there are so many inconsistencies, illogical statements and lack of follow through, they are either confused or have been bribed to say what they have said. Both Judges seemed to be pro-OP and pro-DT in the face of facts otherwise.

At the pre-trial hearing, the Judge even said, "I read newspapers" as if to forewarn us that even he, as a Judge, could blame "trial by media" and state in the future that OP could not be given a fair trial due to the leaked photos as he had seen them in the media!

IMO there seem to be so many instances so far of even the judiciary "going soft" in OP's favour! This is a real worry as far as I am concerned.

 

[Estelle]

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/athletics/oscar-pistorius-resumes-training-1.1538814#.Uc1lljsweaU

ASCOC suspends and cuts all ties with ASA- 24 Jun 2013 00:00:00

Athletics South Africa (ASA) has been suspended by the SA Sports Confederation and Olympic Committee (SASCOC) after its members ignored the sanctions placed on the ASA’s board.

President of SASCOC, Gideon Sam, said in a statement: ‘The membership of ASA, as a national federation, under the regulation of Sascoc, is hereby suspended with immediate effect.’

‘At this juncture, Sascoc has decided that athletes of ASA will not be included in future Team SA squads for the Commonwealth Youth Games, Commonwealth Games, Anoca Youth Games, Zone VI Games, All Africa Games, Olympic Youth Games and the Olympic Games.’

As part of the suspension, all athletes that are registered with the ASA will be removed from SASCOC’s funding programme. The suspension came after a meeting in which the ASA decided it would continue to recognise the original board members, despite the members having been suspended by SASCOC earlier in the year and placed under administration.

The International Association of Athletics Federations (IAAF) has lent its support to the elected board members and has said it does not recognise the authority of Zola Majavu, the appointed administrator.

He added: ‘Sascoc’s untiring efforts to correct the maladministration in ASA, and not to support the attempts of Mr Evans to regain the presidency of the federation which impeached him by a vote of 33 to one with four abstentions, has been hampered by the IAAF. It has been evident that the IAAF does not recognise Sascoc as a sports authority in South Africa.’

- See more at: http://www.sportindustry.co.za/news...d-cuts-all-ties-with-asa#sthash.ekPfbrxv.dpuf

I read yesterday that a local South African poster said that OP will not be competing any time soon not just because of this case but because of this suspension.

Is this correct?

 

[Estelle]

Snipped


A few days ago I found this interesting video - hope you can watch it, too


Oscar Pistorius Crime Scene Animation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9Ae0aQCLv-c


Unfortunately, OP is shown like wearing his prosthesis from the beginning

But at 4:18 you can see how Reeva sat at the toilet - if she really sat there when Oscar fired his shots through the door.

As we know she was hit only at the right side of her body so there must have been traces of blood on THIS side of the toilet bowl

And now remind the leaked photo with the traces of blood in the toilet which showed a large pool of blood on the ground of the middle resp. the OTHER side of the toilet bowl - this would be the LEFT side of Reeva's body.



Even the traces of blood on the toilet seat were mostly on this (wrong) side.

In addition, there was only one large pool of blood on the floor but Reeva was also hit in the hip and arm.

Although perhaps most of the blood of her hip wound was absorbed by her clothing and / or this wound bled inwards, there should be another spot of blood from this wound on the floor.

Next point: OP claimed in his affidavit he battled to get Reeva out of the toilet and pulled her into the bathroom.

Reeva had long hair and her hair were full of blood because of the head wound. If he pulled her into the bathroom wouldn't her hair left more bloody sanding marks?

To me - nothing of this photo fits to OP's affidavit.

I have thought of many combinations of how this could have happened but nothing makes sense to me.

One idea is that she was not facing the door but had her back to it and later turned around - hence the blood on that side.

An idea that I had early on in this case, was that she was shot somewhere else and then OP carried her into the toilet and slumped her there then shot bullets through the door. But in that case, there would have to have been six bullets which was stated by the media in at least one early report ie 3 shots 17 minutes silence then he carries her into the toilet then another 3 shots.

As the prosecution began setting out its case this morning, they claimed a witness heard 'two to three' shots, saw lights turn on, and then 17 minutes later heard 'two to three more shots.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lengthy-gap-bursts-gunfire.html#ixzz2Xba6I2GC

PARALYMPICS “Blade Runner” Oscar Pistorius was charged with murdering his girlfriend yesterday after his neighbours heard three gunshots, then silence for ten minutes — before three MORE.

The first blasts at 3am were accompanied by screams. Fellow South African Reeva Steenkamp, 30 — a model and TV star — was found dead by cops who raced to the athlete’s Pretoria home.

The athlete allegedly shot his girlfriend through a bathroom door, the Beeld newspaper reported

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-with-murdering-girlfriend.html#ixzz2XbasAiTJ

When Oscar Pistorius gunned down girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, she began screaming -- presumably in pain and horror -- and he continued shooting ... this according to a prosecution witness.

As the bail hearing resumed Wednesday, prosecutors revealed a statement from a witness who claims he heard gunshots, went to his balcony and saw the light was on. He then heard a female screaming two or three times ... then more gunshots.

http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/20/oscar...ms-prosecution-reeva-steenkamp/#ixzz2XbnGlKTr

In the café, Botha crouched down to show me his theory of how Steenkamp may have been cowering in the toilet (a cubicle that measured 4 1/2 by 3 1/2 feet), with her arms crossed, which would account for why one bullet had gone through her fingers before entering her arm. Another bullet struck her above the right ear, and another hit her in the hip. “It does not matter where she was in that toilet, she wouldn’t have had a chance,” said Botha.

According to Botha, the bullets had struck her on the right side, which meant that she was not sitting on the toilet but probably crouching behind the locked door. From the location of the bullet casings in the bathroom, the detective believed that Pistorius had fired at the door from less than five feet away. By standing straight and imagining himself pointing a gun at the door, Botha believed that the bullet holes were slanted down, which would indicate that Pistorius had been wearing his prosthetic legs, not, as he would later claim, that he was on his stumps.

However, during what sounded like an argument in Pistorius’s house between two and three A.M., according to Hilton Botha, “witnesses said they heard a lady scream, and they heard bullet shots fired, and then they heard a scream again and then another few shots fired.”

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2013/06/oscar-pistorius-murder

 

[Estelle]

The witness who heard shots got the number of shots, timing and placement wrong.

Botha says the witness heard "two to three" shots, saw lights on, then 17 minutes later heard "two to three" more shots.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2013/2/20/15624/2229/crimenews/Oscar-Pistorius-Bail-Hearing-Day-2

How can a witness be told by Botha that they got it wrong? Don't you accept it until it is verified by another witness or check with evidence. Surely it was too early for Botha to say this. So why did he say it? I used to think he was trying to hold back evidence until they heard OP's version.

He apparently made a mistake about the distance of 600 metres so he could have also made a mistake about the number of shots.

But didn't another witness verify that they also heard 3 shots then 10 minutes silence then 3 more shots.

One witness was apparently only 50 metres away but this came out in the media later.

I realise they have said that they did not find six bullets but like the one found in the toilet bowl, they could have been picked up but then thrown away by someone in OP's team.

It will be important for them to prove that the 3 bullets which went through the door actually were the ones which hit Reeva's body.

Am I making any sense here?

 

[Estelle]

Pistorius must have been an angry man in the week leading up to Reeva's murder to have used foul language at this teenager just for walking across the track.

Foul tirade at teen athlete
16 Feb 2013
Wilhelm de Swardt

OSCAR Pistorius shocked other athletes last week when he took a teenager to task for walking across the track where he was training.

Henry Kelbrick jnr, a Grade 9 pupil at Afrikaans Hoër *Seunskool, was sworn at for his mistake.

Coaches, parents and athletes were shocked at Pistorius’s language.

Those who saw the outburst said it was unnecessary, as Pistorius was about 50 metres away at the time.

The boy’s coach, Nico van Heerden, took Pistorius to task, and he apologised two days later.

http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?showcontent&global[_id]=95811

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I have thought of many combinations of how this could have happened but nothing makes sense to me.

One idea is that she was not facing the door but had her back to it and later turned around - hence the blood on that side.

An idea that I had early on in this case, was that she was shot somewhere else and then OP carried her into the toilet and slumped her there then shot bullets through the door. But in that case, there would have to have been six bullets which was stated by the media in at least one early report ie 3 shots 17 minutes silence then he carries her into the toilet then another 3 shots.





When Oscar Pistorius gunned down girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp, she began screaming -- presumably in pain and horror -- and he continued shooting ... this according to a prosecution witness.

As the bail hearing resumed Wednesday, prosecutors revealed a statement from a witness who claims he heard gunshots, went to his balcony and saw the light was on. He then heard a female screaming two or three times ... then more gunshots.

http://www.tmz.com/2013/02/20/oscar...ms-prosecution-reeva-steenkamp/#ixzz2XbnGlKTr

I also have been thinking on this photo but can't find the answers to the questions in my mind..Altering witness statements, number of shots and cartridges that we dont know exactly , Reevas changing place from here to there make it even more confusing perh. delibaretly .

But this photo should tell us what really happened imo. We have Reeva's wounds on her right hip, right arm, right hand and head.
*As Pisto mentioned above in the first shot she couldn't be at the sitting position on the floor next to the toilet as her hip would be behind the bowl and there are no crashes on the toilet bowl..
*She possib. wasn't sitting on the toilet as there is not much blood on the right side of the toilet.
*And to me this scene just doesn't look like Reeva was pulled/dragged
on the floor.. There is no such trace on the floor..
*Also those three stickers on the floor .. they possib. indicate the places
where cartridges were found but isn't it odd that those three are so close to each other? That doesn't make sense.. And if she was dragged to the bathroom part how could those cartridges stay still there ? Her body should have scattered them..

JMO

 

[Estelle]

I also have been thinking on this photo but can't find the answers to the questions in my mind..Altering witness statements, number of shots and cartridges that we dont know exactly , Reevas changing place from here to there make it even more confusing perh. delibaretly .

But this photo should tell us what really happened imo. We have Reeva's wounds on her right hip, right arm, right hand and head.
*As Pisto mentioned above in the first shot she couldn't be at the sitting position on the floor next to the toilet as her hip would be behind the bowl and there are no crashes on the toilet bowl..
*She possib. wasn't sitting on the toilet as there is not much blood on the right side of the toilet.
*And to me this scene just doesn't look like Reeva was pulled/dragged
on the floor.. There is no such trace on the floor..
*Also those three stickers on the floor .. they possib. indicate the places
where cartridges were found but isn't it odd that those three are so close to each other? That doesn't make sense.. And if she was dragged to the bathroom part how could those cartridges stay still there ? Her body should have scattered them..

JMO

Thinking about what you have said and observed, I do not think Reeva was ever dragged anywhere.

I think at each stage, she was carried - just like he carried her down the stairs.

 

[Pisto_lius]

In the crime scene video regarding the blood shown to be on the stair walls. AC in the video refers to these as flecks, RP referred to the blood on the stair walls as swipes in his interview.

“There were also swipes on the wall where he carried her down the steps. And we can tell that by the time she got to the bottom of the steps she was already dead.”

http://www.iol.co.za/capetimes/oscar-it-s-all-about-the-toilet-door-1.1476183#.Ua5_CRG9KK3

I'm no expert on blood patterns but even I could tell that the blood spots shown on those stair walls are IMO definitely not swipes, I don't think they could be referred to as flecks either.


http://m.youtube.com/?reload=7&rdm=073d#/watch?v=Sop_t4T6jn8&desktop_uri=/watch?v=Sop_t4T6jn8


I wonder where on the stair walls this blood spatter would be, as there is a darker beige coloured border at the right side of the picture like carpet when turned sideways ( 1:51 on the video) Those blood spots seem to me as if they had been flicked with some force onto the walls. Seems weird to me anyway can't understand how that could happen with supposedly gently carrying a critically injured bleeding woman down a flight of stairs.

I agree with your doubts regarding all the blood spatters. So, let me summarize my doubts about this once more – even I’m not a forensic expert

A - Blood stains on the sofa

1. The photos show no sofa under the part of the stairs without wall. So where the sofa was located if there were blood stains on it?

2. There were quite a lot of blood spatter on the sofa - spread over a fairly wide range.

3. If this blood dropped down on the sofa when OP carried Reeva downstairs, her head would have hung over the railing. But directly before and after the area with stair rail were walls against which her head then would be beaten.


B – Blood stains on the stairs

1. If the blood of Reeva's head wound dropped down (on the sofa), as OP carried Reeva downstairs, then her head must have been on the left side of the stairs (view from bottom of the stairs).

2. The photo of the stairs shows only occasional splashes of blood on the lower stair treads - and all these blood spatters are on the right side of the stair treads (view from the bottom of the stairs). There is not a single spot of blood on the right side of the stairs.

3. There is not a single spot of blood on the wall at the bottom region of the stairs.


C – Blood stains on the wall

1. It’s unknown what area show the blood spatter on the wall.

2. But if you compare the photo of the stairs and the photo of the blood spatter on the wall, the blood spatter on the wall could be at the top of the staircase area. Both photos show a dark shadow - the stairs photo right above, the wall photo on the right side. Because the stairs were photographed from below, it may be that these blood stains are not visible on the stairs photo because this photo doesn’t show the top of the wall.

3. The blood spatter on the wall are (for me) to widely dispersed than they are incurred when OP carried Reeva downstairs. Her body was weighty. A man with two prosthetic legs and wearing an unconscious body in his arms is likely to have difficulty keeping balance while going down the stairs. So, even if OP swayed when he carried Reeva downstairs he wouldn't have wavered as strong as her head dangled back and forth so strong that there were this kind of widely scattered blood spatters on the wall, because then OP certainly would lost his balance.


Because of all that, I don't believe anything OP or his DT want make us believe about what happened.

In my opinion there was a dispute and fight outside the bedroom.

- They weren't in bed - not for a second - because both were dressed (as paramedic said).

- Reeva wasn't shot in the toilet but previously somewhere else in the house.

- Maybe then she dragged herself with her last strength in the toilet but she no longer had the strength to lock the door.

- Thus, OP could easily open the door and saw Reeva was already dead on the floor.

- Then he called Stander and his family members. Some of them came to the house within a few minutes and together they invented the story of the burglar to save Oscar's neck.

- They prepared the crime scene suitable to their story - but made a lot of mistakes.

- And only just befor someone phoned paramedics OP carried Reeva downstairs. Maybe they even told him what he should do, so it became blood spatters on the wall downstairs to fit their story.