Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

Boy Missing is written using Desiree's input not actual backed up heard from the mouth of info. Kwim?

I'd love to hear why someone thinks Terri's guilty without it being started by Desiree said. Since the majority of the damning things Desiree has said absolutely cannot be backed up and in somIe cases have been proven false.

Edited to add: we know darned well LE knows exactly when her phone rang and if in fact she answered it but aren't releasing that info. Grrr
Desiree knows Terri is guilty BECAUSE of what she learned from LE during the investigation and BECAUSE of what she witnessed in the days after Kyron went missing. The implication that Desiree created this suspicion of Terri on her own is completely false and uncalled for. Terri lied to LE all on her own, and her behavior and activities were not manufactured by Desiree. Guilty people bring suspicion upon themselves, and Terri did plenty of that. LE did not focus just on Terri but followed the evidence. It led them straight to Terri and DeDe.
Desiree is Kyron's advocate. She wants Terri arrested because Terri is guilty.
 
Desiree knows Terri is guilty BECAUSE of what she learned from LE during the investigation and BECAUSE of what she witnessed in the days after Kyron went missing. The implication that Desiree created this suspicion of Terri on her own is completely false and uncalled for. Terri lied to LE all on her own, and her behavior and activities were not manufactured by Desiree. Guilty people bring suspicion upon themselves, and Terri did plenty of that. LE did not focus just on Terri but followed the evidence. It led them straight to Terri and DeDe.
Desiree is Kyron's advocate. She wants Terri arrested because Terri is guilty.
If there was overwhelming evidence, there would have been an arrest
 
Terri is not the victim here. She is the perpetrator, and the author of her own misery. She harmed an innocent child, and should be in prison. Desiree and Kaine derserve answers.Terri has those answers,and people will keep after her until she talks. It won't stop.....and it shouldn't stop. She does not get to live her life in peace when Kyron's parents have none. If I ever run into her I'll ask her where Kyron is whether she likes it or not.
This is a forum about Kyron....the child who is still missing because of Terri. There are no excuses for what she's done.
I'm not a fan of Terri, but if there was enough evidence to convince beyond a reasonable doubt, she would have been charged and convicted already.
 
Terri is not the victim here.

I keep seeing this phrase, and I always wonder, victim of what? She's not the victim of abduction or murder, sure. That's Kyron. But that doesn't mean she can't be the victim of something else. She, Kaine, Desiree and Tony are all victims of their (step-)child being taken from them. And it is quite possible for Terri to be the victim of police rail-roading and public vilification that completely ruined her life even beyong losing her child. It's not the casting of a play, there's not just one person who can have the role of "victim".

She is the perpetrator, and the author of her own misery. She harmed an innocent child, and should be in prison.

In your opinion, yes. But there has obviously never been evidence for this, not even to convince a Grand Jury that there is probable cause.

Desiree and Kaine derserve answers.Terri has those answers,and people will keep after her until she talks. It won't stop.....and it shouldn't stop.

If they have done so for thirteen years and nothing has happened, what use could it possibly be to continue? "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

She does not get to live her life in peace when Kyron's parents have none. If I ever run into her I'll ask her where Kyron is whether she likes it or not.
This is a forum about Kyron....the child who is still missing because of Terri. There are no excuses for what she's done.

It seems to me like your first sentence admits that doing so is not about finding Kyron, and is more about hurting Terri. Personally, I think that if this is a forum for Kyron, trying to find Kyron and get evidence against the perpetrator should be the focus. Lashing out in public at a person you believe did it might make you feel good, but it doesn't actually accomplish anything. And then there is the very real possibility that you could be wrong.

Desiree knows Terri is guilty BECAUSE of what she learned from LE during the investigation and BECAUSE of what she witnessed in the days after Kyron went missing.

It's interesting, then, that in the Morris book Desiree gives a different account - she suspected Terri before she had talked to LE and before she had even arrived in Portland. She gives her reasons - that Terri couldn't have seen Kyron from where she says she stood (which is wrong and seems to reflect Desiree's poor knowledge of the school layout) and that Terri said she "dropped him off" when she was actually in the school for 30 minutes (not exactly a smoking gun) - and then says she went to the police the very first night with her suspicions. I don't find it unbelievable that the police would take an immediate accusation from a family member seriously, though I wouldn't blame Desiree for their subsequent tunnel vision. Police have agency; they were the ones who decided on their path.

The implication that Desiree created this suspicion of Terri on her own is completely false and uncalled for. Terri lied to LE all on her own, and her behavior and activities were not manufactured by Desiree.

We don't know that she lied to LE.

Guilty people bring suspicion upon themselves, and Terri did plenty of that. LE did not focus just on Terri but followed the evidence. It led them straight to Terri and DeDe.

And they put that evidence before a Grand Jury. Thirteen years later, we still don't have an indictment. I don't doubt that the MCSO believed their theory, but it would not be the first (or, sadly, the last) time police became fixated on a theory that fell apart when they showed it outside their circle.

Desiree is Kyron's advocate. She wants Terri arrested because Terri is guilty.

She wants Terri arrested because she believes she's guilty. That's her prerogative, and everyone else's too. I just don't think it should cross the line into public harassment.
 
Terri is not the victim here. She is the perpetrator, and the author of her own misery. She harmed an innocent child, and should be in prison. Desiree and Kaine derserve answers.Terri has those answers,and people will keep after her until she talks. It won't stop.....and it shouldn't stop. She does not get to live her life in peace when Kyron's parents have none. If I ever run into her I'll ask her where Kyron is whether she likes it or not.
This is a forum about Kyron....the child who is still missing because of Terri. There are no excuses for what she's done.

Desiree knows Terri is guilty BECAUSE of what she learned from LE during the investigation and BECAUSE of what she witnessed in the days after Kyron went missing. The implication that Desiree created this suspicion of Terri on her own is completely false and uncalled for. Terri lied to LE all on her own, and her behavior and activities were not manufactured by Desiree. Guilty people bring suspicion upon themselves, and Terri did plenty of that. LE did not focus just on Terri but followed the evidence. It led them straight to Terri and DeDe.
Desiree is Kyron's advocate. She wants Terri arrested because Terri is guilty.
You are absolutely spot on with both of these comments. I applaud you.

We see from the recent arrest in the Crystal Rogers case and in the Kristin Smart case that justice can be a long time coming. We always knew who was responsible in those cases, and we weren't wrong.

Especially in Kristin's case, they were running around on the blogs saying it couldn't be him or LE would have arrested him. Except they didn't. It took a podcaster to point the way.

Justice for Kyron! It's on its way.
 
Nothing is certain of course, though I do feel obligated to counter absolute statements with those of my own.

But I stand by what I said. The MCSO hasn't been actively investigating this case for a long time. They believe they know who did it, but they have no evidence she did, so they're stuck. In my opinion, this case was bungled in the first weeks. They zeroed in on Terri before they had even interviewed everyone at school. And they changed their tack from gathering witness statements to pressuring Terri two weeks after the abduction, with the distribution of a poster with her face on it as well as the Horman truck. And while they're currently deep in the sunk cost fallacy, the initial events that triggered their suspicions (as far as I can see) are either invalid or were later shown to be wrong:

* June 4th. Desiree going to the investigators the first night to tell them she thought Terri was responsible. If this actually happened, it makes sense that the investigators would become suspicious, but according to Desiree herself her suspicion was based on the false notion that Terri wouldn't have been able to see Kyron's classroom from where she stood.

* June 7th. Polygraphs. They are, of course, bunk and should never enter into a serious investigation, but here they seem to have been given importance based on statements by Kaine, Tony and Dede. If Terri failed her initial polygraph, and the MCSO genuinely believed their silly toy was a lie detector? Another unfair strike against her.

* June 10th. Sauvie Island. The leaked reason for the sudden search of the island was that cell phone pings had placed Terri on the island. We know from leaked emails that Terri was dumbfounded by this, stating she had only been on hwy 30, not on the island. To the MCSO this would be a clear lie from her - and indeed that's what everyone else thought too. Look back at this forum in those early days, and see how many used the cell phone pings as a clear indication of Terri's guilt. Of course, at some point the MCSO realized that they were wrong - the ping did not have to have originated on the island, and indeed the cell tower was by hwy 30, where Terri was. But that was much, much later.

And at this point, the tunnel vision sets in. They have someone the family is suspicious of and who (they believe) lied to them. So the investigation goes into pressure mode. June 18th the poster of Terri and the white truck goes out. At this point, any sighting of a white truck on June 4th becomes a sighting of Terri's truck in the public mind. As an example, on this forum much digital ink was spilled over Chas who said he saw Terri in the white truck at hwy 30 on June 4th - however on a time that would later prove it couldn't be her. Chas himself admitted that he had only called in the tip after the posters had appeared.

At some point the police must have realized that Terri's timeline began to solidify in a way that made it very unlikely for her to have taken Kyron. Receipts, CCTV, witness statements placed her at where she said she had been between 9 and 10, and there were sightings of Kyron at the school after 9. Not to mention the whispers of a strange man at the school. So since Terri was guilty in their eyes (she had lied to them, after all) it had to have been an accomplice. A bit of digging into her finances and what do they find? A landscaper hired by Terri whose presence was hidden from Kaine. Jackpot! The MCSO must have thought they had their man, and (imo) they leaned on him heavily to get him to confess. I very much suspect the MFH "confession" was the landscaper's way of giving the MCSO something and get them off his back. It wouldn't be the first time someone made a false accusation under pressure.

Unfortunately (for everyone involved) the MCSO decided to prove this by a harebrained scheme involving the landscaper wearing a wire in a sting operation, along with turning Kaine against Terri and getting him and his daughter out of the house. Apparently they hadn't planned for the whole thing to backfire, which it did. Terri called the police on the sting, ended up with a lawyer who had no patience for police malarkey and Kaine's immediate divorce proceedings now became tangled up in the criminal investigation, creating a legal mess that would last for over three years. Still, the police kept up their strategy. Friends who stood by Terri were investigated and interrogated, their homes searched - all of them ended up distancing themselves from Terri. One friend, Dede Spicher, declined to take a polygraph, a sensible move, but the result is that the next day Kaine and Desiree outed her to the media, telling the world that she isn't cooperating. Soon her face too was put on posters.

While the landscaper was eliminated as an accomplice (apparently), and Dede doesn't seem to have been seriously considered as one, the police were reduced to asking the public about someone seen sitting in Terri's truck (aka, a white truck) at the school. No description or even gender was given about this individual, but I suspect the Dede posters backfired as soon it was leaked that the police didn't think the mystery person was Dede. If you ask me why this individual was never given a description, it's because they could never link him to anyone, least of all Terri, or find his identity. By giving out the description of an unknown man not linked to Terri they'd hand her ammunition for her upcoming trial.

Though that may have been optimistic on their part. They put the case before a Grand Jury, and while the results were secret, by October it certainly looked like they got no-billed - a rare occasion of the ham sandwich walking. This is when you notice the investigation dying down. You get some drip, drip as the police release dirt on Terri through Kaine and Desiree, and some more searches of Sauvie Island and surrounding areas, but little more. By 2011, what little info we get is that the MCSO are looking into things like a fire at Terri's parents garage in the 90s, or a prison snitch who claims to have been hired by Terri to murder her boyfriend. None of which have anything to do with Kyron, even if they weren't incredibly weak. In 2013 Dede relents and takes the polygraph, which doesn't change anything since her story remains the same as in 2010. What is the investigator's immediate follow-up? To plan another sting operation with Dede! She sensibly declined. Then Terri gets into some trouble after having moved to California. She's acquitted of the charges, but it's clear that the MCSO is sniffing at these cases. So for seven years, the investigative tactic appears to have been "let's poke and prod Terri until we can get anything to stick."

2017 seems to be the last time we get info on the Grand Jury (still meeting, according to legal documents). Since Oregon requires a court order to empanel a new Grand Jury in the same case, that would imply some new evidence, no? Well, turns out Multnomah county had a clever (and illegal) work-around - they just "forgot" to register their no-bills. After getting caught in 2019 we haven't heard anything about a Grand Jury in Kyron's case. I don't think that's a coincidence.

The case isn't moving. They aren't doing searches. If Terri is the actual culprit, what could they possibly do to get her? They've basically tried everything, and nothing worked. You would think that at this point a fresh set of eyes and a new direction would be welcome.
I believe strongly that any cold case deserves a fresh set of eyes-- not to do this borders on negligence.
 
You are absolutely spot on with both of these comments. I applaud you.

We see from the recent arrest in the Crystal Rogers case and in the Kristin Smart case that justice can be a long time coming. We always knew who was responsible in those cases, and we weren't wrong.

Especially in Kristin's case, they were running around on the blogs saying it couldn't be him or LE would have arrested him. Except they didn't. It took a podcaster to point the way.

Justice for Kyron! It's on its way.
Thanks for citing those two cases, particularily Kristin's. That happened in my backyard, locals knew the truth - heard the whispers and saw many of the behind the scenes searches over the years.

Another case with plenty of twists and turns, is that of Hailey Dunn. IMO, the perp in that case will be re-arrested and murder charges re-instated. Barry Morphew - same.

Point is, there are many cases which are complicated and take time to obtain justice. Like you said - Justice is on it's way. Thank you Truth for being a staunch supporter of Kyron, EllaMae as well!!
 
I can't help but think part of the reason that Kyron hasn't been found is the early focus on TH. I've read this whole thread. I saw suspicious behavior on TH's part but no proof. There were no cameras in the school so we may never know how or with whom Kyron left the school that day.

In my opinion, if Kyron is found, it will NOT be TH that is responsible. Kyron went quietly so I suspect he either knew of the person or it was a person he felt he had to obey. Some one flew under the radar that day.
 
The problem is LE waited too long before putting the focus on Terri. For nearly the first two weeks of Kyron's disappearance, they searched for him as if he were a little boy lost. LE swallowed her bull hook, line, and sinker until they could look the other way no longer and still, they dallied with a tiny confused witness. (Bless the traumatized child as he was being "planted" by those who had Terri's best interests at heart, not his. Shame on them).

We know she led sweet Kyron from school that day. LE will never say it more clearly until we see a probable cause arrest affidavit, but we know.

What we don't know is what she did with him immediately after. Kyron's mother hints that LE has evidence of the ending, but the middle has not been revealed. At this point, it is unclear if that part is known in its entirety or not. But that is the unknown for us who speculate with sincerity, not with the intention to mislead. The pieces are coming together and there will be an arrest eventually.

Author, Rebecca Morris, contacted Terri and wanted to interview her for the book. Terri turned down the offer. She seems so unhappy with the book, but yet she thwarted her chance to set the record straight.

Desiree had nothing to do with the long, slow path LE and the DA took. Only Terri, herself, her actions, and her lies are responsible for the situation she finds herself in. Justice for Kyron!

Snipped quote: [June 13, 2010] The search for Kyron Horman is now a criminal investigation with a $25,000 reward for any tips leading to the missing second-grader's recovery.
Sheriff Dan Staton announced the reward and the change in the status of the case this afternoon.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100616062825/http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_day_10_sea.html

Snipped quote: [July 6, 2010] The reliable source also told KGW News that investigators believe that Terri has lied to investigators and that there have been several instances where they have wanted to know more about her whereabouts the day her stepson disappeared, including:
* After cell phone records seemed to indicate that she may not have been where she said on that day.
* After her performance during several hours of polygraphs which, the source said, indicated that she was being "evasive"; and
* After examining files from her computer.
Investigators have also examined Terri's cell phone and email records, determining whom she had had contact within the days leading up to her stepson’s disappearance.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100717232730/http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

Snipped quote: "It tells me everything I need to know," said Kaine. "She's told us about the failed polygraphs. And when you fail two to three polygraphs, the percentages are really high. And when the questions are around your involvement with taking him from the school that day, I think we know. We all do."
Five years later: Why Kyron Horman's dad believes his son is alive

Snipped transcript:
Dr. Phil: What did he ask you?
Terri: One of the questions was: Was Kyron in the truck with you?

[Pg 200] "The bombshell was that Kyron was seen leaving the school with Terri. The MCSO had said it a couple of weeks before, then retracted it. Now it was confirmed. Kyron’s regular bus driver, plus Kyron’s friend Carson and Carson’s sister and grandmother, had all seen Kyron leaving the school on June 4 with Terri. It was true. Kyron, [baby K] and Terri had walked through the parking lot at 8:50 a.m. on June 4. They were not holding hands, the bus driver said, but they were walking together. Terri had not parked in the school parking lot, where she said she had, but on a gravel road on the far west side of the school where the elevation of the school building and grounds partly concealed the white truck".
"Boy Missing - The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
 
I think this is probably the case that I most want solved and there are many that haunt me. But how did Kyron just up and vanish the way he did? I've read a few theories where people think he crawled into some part of the school and got stuck and died there but sure any openings where he could fit were checked, right? And what even happened with the stepmom supposedly trying to hire someone to kill Kyron's dad/her husband? The police released that information to the public but then it went nowhere. Were they lying to try to force a confession from the stepmom? What happened? It's all so confusing and he needs to come home. :(
 
I've read a few theories where people think he crawled into some part of the school and got stuck and died there but sure any openings where he could fit were checked, right? :(
SBMFF

Without being too graphic, if this happened he would have been smelled as he decomposed. Like.. big time. I had a rat get into the crawlspace and died in there (MUCH smaller than a child). OMG did it stink every time I turned on the AC (it was summer. I'm sure it would have stunk in the winter with the heat turned on as well). There was NO denying there was something dead. And as I said, a rat is much smaller than a child. Due to that I don't think he crawled into any part of the school and died. I'd think he would have been detected long ago, if so, as the school was in use. Not like it was an abandoned building so no one around to smell anything out of place.

Plus, why would he even do that between showing his science experiment, and class?
 
The problem is LE waited too long before putting the focus on Terri. For nearly the first two weeks of Kyron's disappearance, they searched for him as if he were a little boy lost. LE swallowed her bull hook, line, and sinker until they could look the other way no longer and still, they dallied with a tiny confused witness. (Bless the traumatized child as he was being "planted" by those who had Terri's best interests at heart, not his. Shame on them).

We know she led sweet Kyron from school that day. LE will never say it more clearly until we see a probable cause arrest affidavit, but we know.

What we don't know is what she did with him immediately after. Kyron's mother hints that LE has evidence of the ending, but the middle has not been revealed. At this point, it is unclear if that part is known in its entirety or not. But that is the unknown for us who speculate with sincerity, not with the intention to mislead. The pieces are coming together and there will be an arrest eventually.

Author, Rebecca Morris, contacted Terri and wanted to interview her for the book. Terri turned down the offer. She seems so unhappy with the book, but yet she thwarted her chance to set the record straight.

Desiree had nothing to do with the long, slow path LE and the DA took. Only Terri, herself, her actions, and her lies are responsible for the situation she finds herself in. Justice for Kyron!

Snipped quote: [June 13, 2010] The search for Kyron Horman is now a criminal investigation with a $25,000 reward for any tips leading to the missing second-grader's recovery.
Sheriff Dan Staton announced the reward and the change in the status of the case this afternoon.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100616062825/http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/kyron_horman_search_day_10_sea.html

Snipped quote: [July 6, 2010] The reliable source also told KGW News that investigators believe that Terri has lied to investigators and that there have been several instances where they have wanted to know more about her whereabouts the day her stepson disappeared, including:
* After cell phone records seemed to indicate that she may not have been where she said on that day.
* After her performance during several hours of polygraphs which, the source said, indicated that she was being "evasive"; and
* After examining files from her computer.
Investigators have also examined Terri's cell phone and email records, determining whom she had had contact within the days leading up to her stepson’s disappearance.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100717232730/http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Hormanprobelatest-97771724.html

Snipped quote: "It tells me everything I need to know," said Kaine. "She's told us about the failed polygraphs. And when you fail two to three polygraphs, the percentages are really high. And when the questions are around your involvement with taking him from the school that day, I think we know. We all do."
Five years later: Why Kyron Horman's dad believes his son is alive

Snipped transcript:
Dr. Phil: What did he ask you?
Terri: One of the questions was: Was Kyron in the truck with you?

[Pg 200] "The bombshell was that Kyron was seen leaving the school with Terri. The MCSO had said it a couple of weeks before, then retracted it. Now it was confirmed. Kyron’s regular bus driver, plus Kyron’s friend Carson and Carson’s sister and grandmother, had all seen Kyron leaving the school on June 4 with Terri. It was true. Kyron, [baby K] and Terri had walked through the parking lot at 8:50 a.m. on June 4. They were not holding hands, the bus driver said, but they were walking together. Terri had not parked in the school parking lot, where she said she had, but on a gravel road on the far west side of the school where the elevation of the school building and grounds partly concealed the white truck".
"Boy Missing - The Search for Kyron Horman" by Rebecca Morris
Ty for this. I havent been active on this thread in so so long but ive been active on reddit and once i said some of these same things about step mom i have been down voted to no end. I felt like i missed something but now can see its just the terri stans wrking over time for what? Idk but either they've never seen the evidence or the timeline or they are just bots for terri. Idk but i was so glad to come back home here and see i am not disillusioned.
Cant wait for this case to break and Kyron is found.. and terri in jail. Moo
 
I decided long ago that she wanted to remove the heir and then eventually would have gotten rid of Kyron's father..and this way the estate is hers..the life insurance , social security for her son and life would be a cakewalk for her. mOO
 
Ty for this. I havent been active on this thread in so so long but ive been active on reddit and once i said some of these same things about step mom i have been down voted to no end. I felt like i missed something but now can see its just the terri stans wrking over time for what? Idk but either they've never seen the evidence or the timeline or they are just bots for terri. Idk but i was so glad to come back home here and see i am not disillusioned.
Cant wait for this case to break and Kyron is found.. and terri in jail. Moo
While things don't look good for Terri, there are other possibilities... it's good to keep an open mind until we have more confirmed facts.
 
While things don't look good for Terri, there are other possibilities... it's good to keep an open mind until we have more confirmed facts.
There are enough confirmed facts. But the current DA wants a body. He's up for re-election and is facing stiff competition from someone who seems willing to prosecute without a body.
 
Definitely. The police say this case isn't cold, but I don't see how it isn't. The FBI would be the best to take over the lead here.
The FBI already had agents working this case from the beginning. A cold case is one that is no longer being actively investigated by LE. Usually that happens whenthe investigators feel they've hit a dead end and have no new leads to follow.
That is not the status of Kyron's case at all. It's still open and active.
 
You are absolutely spot on with both of these comments. I applaud you.

We see from the recent arrest in the Crystal Rogers case and in the Kristin Smart case that justice can be a long time coming. We always knew who was responsible in those cases, and we weren't wrong.

Especially in Kristin's case, they were running around on the blogs saying it couldn't be him or LE would have arrested him. Except they didn't. It took a podcaster to point the way.

Justice for Kyron! It's on its way.
I think it will happen with the new DA ......
 

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