GUILTY WI - Apple River multiple stabbing; one teen dead, 4 other people hurt; 52 year old man arrested, July 2022

So many problems with this one. Alcohol and water doesn't mix. Also, if you can't wait till after an activity to drink then maybe you have a problem. A lot of stupid decisions led to someone dying JMO
 
The complaint says, ‘Miu said that he had drunk “a lot of beer” that day.” However, his ex-wife testified on the stand that NM drank two beers. I haven’t seen or heard a BAC on NM.

Hmm. That seems extremely significant to me. If he was impaired, he really has no defense, that he "felt" threatened, because of his BAC.

I am surprised that this hasn't been hammered in, over and over by the prosecution.
 
Hmm. That seems extremely significant to me. If he was impaired, he really has no defense, that he "felt" threatened, because of his BAC.

I am surprised that this hasn't been hammered in, over and over by the prosecution.
I have watched most of this trial and have not seen or heard what NM's BAC was, only the kids on the river and most of them were over the limit. Would be interested to know if NM was tested. All I have heard was that he did not seem impaired to LE officials.
 
So many problems with this one. Alcohol and water doesn't mix. Also, if you can't wait till after an activity to drink then maybe you have a problem. A lot of stupid decisions led to someone dying JMO
It’s Wisconsin……….almost everything involves drinking. I’ve been down the Apple River several times. It would be hard to find a group of tubers without anyone in the group drinking. Jmo
 
I have watched most of this trial and have not seen or heard what NM's BAC was, only the kids on the river and most of them were over the limit. Would be interested to know if NM was tested. All I have heard was that he did not seem impaired to LE officials.

Wow, oversight if he was not tested! This is huge! Functional alcoholics can be at .20, and still seem perfectly fine to people, but their judgement is definitely impaired.
 
I know this is naive but it takes a village. Young people often push the bounds of safety... and it's up to adults to protect then until, as we say, their brains come in. Duty of care that I like to think we all share.

I wish he'd walked away. Reported them. For drinking, for harassing...

He was looking for a phone. He did have a snorkel. He may have said he was looking for a girl's [phone] and the over all impression looked bad. Underwater upskirt.

But there must be rules on the river. Unspoken etiquette. Leave other tubers alone.

Grown adults get involved in stupid skirmishes all the time. Sporting events, open roads, bar fights.

These were children. You can't expect to engage them as adult. Add alcohol, add lack of life experiences, add inherent invincibility and it's -- well, IMO, the only interaction with then if there is one is to report them. For their own safety. Losing you 'tude as an adult over taunts from children, that's a tripwire.

You gotta know when to stand down. Same for the teens but they're teens for a reason.

We expect more from the adults. We need to. Walk away, drive away, take your lumps if you need to. They were children.

JMO
 
I know this is naive but it takes a village. Young people often push the bounds of safety... and it's up to adults to protect then until, as we say, their brains come in. Duty of care that I like to think we all share.

I wish he'd walked away. Reported them. For drinking, for harassing...

He was looking for a phone. He did have a snorkel. He may have said he was looking for a girl's [phone] and the over all impression looked bad. Underwater upskirt.

But there must be rules on the river. Unspoken etiquette. Leave other tubers alone.

Grown adults get involved in stupid skirmishes all the time. Sporting events, open roads, bar fights.

These were children. You can't expect to engage them as adult. Add alcohol, add lack of life experiences, add inherent invincibility and it's -- well, IMO, the only interaction with then if there is one is to report them. For their own safety. Losing you 'tude as an adult over taunts from children, that's a tripwire.

You gotta know when to stand down. Same for the teens but they're teens for a reason.

We expect more from the adults. We need to. Walk away, drive away, take your lumps if you need to. They were children.

JMO
There are two different groups that the prosecutor identified as Isaac's group (teenagers) and the Carlson group (adults). Isaac was the only member of his group harmed by NM. The rest (Madison, Rhyley, Dante, AJ) were all adults.

Isaac's involvement in the physical altercation is not caught on video. Based on my prior breakdown I think Ryan is the only one from Isaac's group that we see getting physical with NM (though it looks like Owen may have tried). The majority of the physical altercation was between NM and the adults of the Carlson group.
 
Wow, Investigator Shilts just said on the stand that there is no evidence of a photo being deleted from her phone in the timeframe MC stated....in other words, there was no photo and they made it all up! Just as I suspected.
Oh dear. If this was yet another lie told on the stand then the defense is going to go to town with this. Sounds like the prosecution popped the bed on this trial.
 
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I know this is naive but it takes a village. Young people often push the bounds of safety... and it's up to adults to protect then until, as we say, their brains come in. Duty of care that I like to think we all share.

I wish he'd walked away. Reported them. For drinking, for harassing...

He was looking for a phone. He did have a snorkel. He may have said he was looking for a girl's [phone] and the over all impression looked bad. Underwater upskirt.

But there must be rules on the river. Unspoken etiquette. Leave other tubers alone.

Grown adults get involved in stupid skirmishes all the time. Sporting events, open roads, bar fights.

These were children. You can't expect to engage them as adult. Add alcohol, add lack of life experiences, add inherent invincibility and it's -- well, IMO, the only interaction with then if there is one is to report them. For their own safety. Losing you 'tude as an adult over taunts from children, that's a tripwire.

You gotta know when to stand down. Same for the teens but they're teens for a reason.

We expect more from the adults. We need to. Walk away, drive away, take your lumps if you need to. They were children.

JMO

"Children"? These were older teens, drinking, which is illegal.

I am just tired of giving "teens", "children" a pass for bad behavior.

Their brains may be undeveloped, but they know better than to hassle other people. If they had just kept on going, there probably wouldn't be a trial today.
 
@PaulBlume_FOX9

APPLE RIVER STABBING TRIAL: Interesting development- State's final witness(es) are not at courthouse today. So, they have no one else to call Monday. Rather than send jury home, defense is now calling its witnesses out-of-turn. Up 1st, sheriff investigator, ANDREW DITTMAN @ FOX9.

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2:20 PM · Apr 8, 2024
 
State def. overcharged on this. Had they gone for manslaughter they might have had a chance with unintentional. Will see what jury instructions say on lesser charges.

I 100% believe these kids lied on the stand and they got together to talk about it also. Their attitudes on the stand are a problem and i hope their parents see it as such. I also think they were looking forward to a civil suit since that seems to be the direction everyone wants to go to these days when placing blame elsewhere.
MN has responsibility and his lying definitely works against his claims, otherwise i think it would be a slam dunk for him. I'm still thinking hung jury depending on what other choices they have. Def. not 1st degree intentional murder IMO
 
State def. overcharged on this. Had they gone for manslaughter they might have had a chance with unintentional. Will see what jury instructions say on lesser charges.

I 100% believe these kids lied on the stand and they got together to talk about it also. Their attitudes on the stand are a problem and i hope their parents see it as such. I also think they were looking forward to a civil suit since that seems to be the direction everyone wants to go to these days when placing blame elsewhere.
MN has responsibility and his lying definitely works against his claims, otherwise i think it would be a slam dunk for him. I'm still thinking hung jury depending on what other choices they have. Def. not 1st degree intentional murder IMO

I agree. But, he did bring the knife into play. And lied about his involvement later. That to me, is a problem.

If he felt like his life was in danger, fine, report it to LEO, and be completely upfront about it. If he takes the stand, that will be interesting to watch the maneuver, to explain his lying to LEO. The disguise...
 
Great post Kakidoll! Totally agree.

There is just no way he punched MC and they all cite that as their reasons for attacking him. If a 250 lb man punches a woman in the face, it is going to be obvious. And no doubt in my mind she would take a picture and send to all her friends for sympathy, not delete it like she says she did. Just not buying it.
 
I've seen the video. This case is NOT about who said what AFTER the fact. It was all caught on video and at least, IMO, it comes down to a fairly large group of loud, drunk, aggressive older teens/young adults antagonizing, threatening and then attacking an older man who was all alone. Absolutely nothing wrong with carrying a knife and nothing wrong with using it in self defense. He was surrounded, pushed down, was practically being drowned and he was obviously scared.

I have boys and girls and those girls were looking for trouble. They wanted those boys to stick up for them. The girl that was screaming in his face? She caused this whole thing. All of this could have and should have been avoided. Drunk teens do stupid things, and this was the dumbest thing they could have ever done. They thought they were going to just attack some random guy and get away with it because they had youth, strength and numbers on their side and this guy was all alone and in a bathing suit, seemingly unarmed. They guess wrong.

I feel horrible for the kid who died's family, but honestly, murder? No. This is self-defense. Clear as the day is long. IMO.
 

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