OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #3

mtrooper said:

The bills were turned back over to Star who is now the guardian of all of them, and she caught up some bills from their house and put the rest in a trust for Madyson. They we not marked bills, and there was also a check that had not been cashed at the house for over $10,000 from SS. Brain....ouch, must find advil.

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The SS check would have a date on it.

When was the last time any family member spoke to them, before they came up missing?

wfgodot said:

Okay, pardon my sudden burst of posting (got new filters for coffeemaker finally), and I fully expect a groundswell of support for "vanished voluntarily" just as soon as everyone gets home from work today (not!). So there's this: below I list 19 possibilities, in random order, to explain the family's disappearance (based on my list of several pages ago plus additions by others along the way). Rank your Top Five theories, in order of likelihood (#1 = most probable) :

A. Done in by locals (random killings)
B. Done in by locals (cash in the briefcase)
C. Voluntary disappearance
D. Drug deal gone bad
E. Done in by family (revenge motif)
F. Done in by family (financial gain)
G. Murders + suicide
H. Murder(s) + disappeared voluntarily
I. Accidental deaths - bodies still undiscovered
J. Saw something they shouldn't have; killed as a result
K. Killed by person(s) involved with land sale
L. Witness protection program
M. Killed (religious overtones)
N. Disappeared (religious involvement)
O. Rehab
P. Deprogramming
Q. Murders + child abduction
R. Abduction; family still alive
S. Anomalous event (UFOs, demon spirits, etc. etc.)

I'll go with....
5. G
4. J
3. D
2. F
1. C

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I am going with 1. I
2. E
3. F
4. J
5. Q

Aside, unrelated to this specific case, published today
This explains much about Oklahoma:
Report: Oklahoma 49th in education funding
http://newsok.com/report-oklahoma-4...article/3462899?custom_click=headlines_widget

little726 said:

When was the last time any family member spoke to them, before they came up missing?

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Okay, I've searched all around, and my conclusion is: mtrooper will know!

OCCAM'S RAZOR II

Probably better than my first go at it: locals found out about the cash, killed the family, took the briefcase and disposed of the bodies elsewhere, in an area with which they would have been very familiar but outsiders would not be. This does explain the money left behind - they didn't know to look for it - and poor Maizy the dog. It's a pretty straight line, with the only requirement being knowledge of the cash on hand.

I agree with your thinking. Follow the money, as they say. This is similar to my reasoning for most of my top scenario picks. (and I stuck in one 'paranoia/weirdness option....murder/voluntary disappearance...based on strange behaviour by each of the 2 adults in the family)

wfgodot said:

Okay, pardon my sudden burst of posting (got new filters for coffeemaker finally), and I fully expect a groundswell of support for "vanished voluntarily" just as soon as everyone gets home from work today (not!). So there's this: below I list 19 possibilities, in random order, to explain the family's disappearance (based on my list of several pages ago plus additions by others along the way). Rank your Top Five theories, in order of likelihood (#1 = most probable) :

A. Done in by locals (random killings)
B. Done in by locals (cash in the briefcase)
C. Voluntary disappearance
D. Drug deal gone bad
E. Done in by family (revenge motif)
F. Done in by family (financial gain)
G. Murders + suicide
H. Murder(s) + disappeared voluntarily
I. Accidental deaths - bodies still undiscovered
J. Saw something they shouldn't have; killed as a result
K. Killed by person(s) involved with land sale
L. Witness protection program
M. Killed (religious overtones)
N. Disappeared (religious involvement)
O. Rehab
P. Deprogramming
Q. Murders + child abduction
R. Abduction; family still alive
S. Anomalous event (UFOs, demon spirits, etc. etc.)

I'll go with....
5. G
4. J
3. D
2. F
1. C

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Well, gosh, it's been three and a half hours, time for a re-think. Top Ten list this time:

10. A
09. N
08. G
07. H
06. K
05. F
04. D
03. C
02. J
01. B

Snoopster said:

so, just to confirm mtrooper, are you saying that your top pick (#1) is witness protection? It sounded from your comments that you were leaning to family-related killings.

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IMHO, witness security is usually geared towards low-profile relocation, lol. But heck, who knows. Maybe this is the OK version.

Snoopster said:

I agree with your thinking. Follow the money, as they say. This is similar to my reasoning for most of my top scenario picks. (and I stuck in one 'paranoia/weirdness option....murder/voluntary disappearance...based on strange behaviour by each of the 2 adults in the family)

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I agree- follow the money is usually a good place to start. But perhaps in this case we should be....not following the money? Thus my ?? about the currency itself. Why would someone want money from one briefcase/container/bag, etc....and not from another? kwim?

JustToSeeYouSmile said:

I agree- follow the money is usually a good place to start. But perhaps in this case we should be....not following the money? Thus my ?? about the currency itself. Why would someone want money from one briefcase/container/bag, etc....and not from another? kwim?

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I hear you, but, that's why my top scenarios involve people that don't know about the money hidden under the seat. That's why I have trouble ranking the 'voluntary disappearance' higher. I believe that if both SJ and BJ (?)voluntarily disappeared, then they would have taken ALL of the money. In a lower probability scenario, if Sherilynn murdered her husband, she might not have known about the money under the seat. IMOO.

Snoopster said:

I hear you, but, that's why my top scenarios involve people that don't know about the money hidden under the seat. That's why I have trouble ranking the 'voluntary disappearance' higher. I believe that if both SJ and BJ (?)voluntarily disappeared, then they would have taken ALL of the money. In a lower probability scenario, if Sherilynn murdered her husband, she might not have known about the money under the seat. IMOO.

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I agree. I definately don't think they voluntarily disappeared.
I was thinking more along the lines of... are we sure we know where the money in the truck literally came from? Is it possible it was exchanged immediately prior to their disappearance- in other words, empty at first or containing something else entirely, then filled- THEN they disappeared, along with the remaining money?

JustToSeeYouSmile said:

I agree. I definately don't think they voluntarily disappeared.
I was thinking more along the lines of... are we sure we know where the money in the truck literally came from? Is it possible it was exchanged immediately prior to their disappearance- in other words, empty at first or containing something else entirely, then filled- THEN they disappeared, along with the remaining money?

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An interesting thought. thanks.

Snoopster said:

An interesting thought. thanks.

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It's out on a limb for sure, but thought I'd throw it out there. If I planned on making a drop or exchange of some kind for that amount of cash, I'd bring something empty or that I knew would be empty by then, to transport it home in without anyone noticing.

On a somewhat unrelated topic, do ya'll think there's enough possibility of an accident or murder to warrant a quick area search with a cadaver dog the next time we're in OK?

Oh,

I am all over the #1 reason being killed by family for money, I just ranked them from #5 to #1...I thought I was building the suspence. Hmmm, I will have to check to make sure that I am right here but I think the last time Starlet spoke with Bobby was on like the 21st of Sept. But that was not abnormal, she would call for Bobby and Sherilyn would call block her and not let her talk to him. He would know his mother was calling and not call her back as well. I think Colton was actually the last family member to talk to them, I believe he spoke with them multiple times in Sept. according to phone bills. I will make sure this is correct tomorrow. As to the cadaver dogs, that is why I went down there I work closely with a SAR group and I am going to try to get a little better area for them to come search, I just want to find a way to do it in a manageable way. Just saying...here you go have fun does not seem to work out so good. SO my goal was to get some clearly defined sectors that I thought had highest probability and then focus on thoes areas. I know there were hellicopters going over a couple days ago searching some more, but the cover is already pretty thick, so I am not real hopeful. I am thinking that there are some DOOOZEY cliffs off some of the switch backs going up the mountain that would be EASY just to dump someone off into oblivion and they would not be seen unless you went WAY down. I am thinking if that is the case might have to wait till November to see with a chopper once the leaves had fallen. I know when they searched last fall the cover was still on the trees, and I know they did another search in the winter, but then the snow was covering. I told the folks that live on the mountain to keep their eyes on the sky for turkey voltures. I do not think the Jamisons are on the 40 acres, but I think they are on the mountain, and thats like a 10-15 mile stretch to cover. Money was hidden under the drivers side seat. But honestly there was so much crap/ junk in the vehicle that it would take you a while to find anything. The MOST telling thing to me is there was a open almost full carton of smokes on the dash. Bobby and Sherilyn smoked like a chimney...and smoker could tell you that you would not abandon a full carton of smokes. Thats just carzy talk. But I am a smoker, so maybe thats just me. Oh, also saw the 2 architecture magazines as well as the bank bag.

mtrooper said:

Oh,

I am all over the #1 reason being killed by family for money, I just ranked them from #5 to #1...I thought I was building the suspence. Hmmm, I will have to check to make sure that I am right here but I think the last time Starlet spoke with Bobby was on like the 21st of Sept. But that was not abnormal, she would call for Bobby and Sherilyn would call block her and not let her talk to him. He would know his mother was calling and not call her back as well. I think Colton was actually the last family member to talk to them, I believe he spoke with them multiple times in Sept. according to phone bills. I will make sure this is correct tomorrow. As to the cadaver dogs, that is why I went down there I work closely with a SAR group and I am going to try to get a little better area for them to come search, I just want to find a way to do it in a manageable way. Just saying...here you go have fun does not seem to work out so good. SO my goal was to get some clearly defined sectors that I thought had highest probability and then focus on thoes areas. I know there were hellicopters going over a couple days ago searching some more, but the cover is already pretty thick, so I am not real hopeful. I am thinking that there are some DOOOZEY cliffs off some of the switch backs going up the mountain that would be EASY just to dump someone off into oblivion and they would not be seen unless you went WAY down. I am thinking if that is the case might have to wait till November to see with a chopper once the leaves had fallen. I know when they searched last fall the cover was still on the trees, and I know they did another search in the winter, but then the snow was covering. I told the folks that live on the mountain to keep their eyes on the sky for turkey voltures. I do not think the Jamisons are on the 40 acres, but I think they are on the mountain, and thats like a 10-15 mile stretch to cover. Money was hidden under the drivers side seat. But honestly there was so much crap/ junk in the vehicle that it would take you a while to find anything. The MOST telling thing to me is there was a open almost full carton of smokes on the dash. Bobby and Sherilyn smoked like a chimney...and smoker could tell you that you would not abandon a full carton of smokes. Thats just carzy talk. But I am a smoker, so maybe thats just me. Oh, also saw the 2 architecture magazines as well as the bank bag.

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BBM

Your description of that mountain terrain makes me lean even stronger to the money motive scenarios. Thanks for that first hand perspective of the locale.

I had not read about the cigarette carton. You know, it's the little details like that that can tell a lot.

Thanks for all of your dedication to this case mtrooper! :applause:

wfgodot said:

A. Done in by locals (random killings)
B. Done in by locals (cash in the briefcase)
C. Voluntary disappearance
D. Drug deal gone bad
E. Done in by family (revenge motif)
F. Done in by family (financial gain)
G. Murders + suicide
H. Murder(s) + disappeared voluntarily
I. Accidental deaths - bodies still undiscovered
J. Saw something they shouldn't have; killed as a result
K. Killed by person(s) involved with land sale
L. Witness protection program
M. Killed (religious overtones)
N. Disappeared (religious involvement)
O. Rehab
P. Deprogramming
Q. Murders + child abduction
R. Abduction; family still alive
S. Anomalous event (UFOs, demon spirits, etc. etc.)

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Instant Analysis!

Okay, not much analyzing, just a straight vote-count up till now, disregarding the second guesses of all those who voted twice (me).

5. one vote apiece
Done in by locals (random killings)
Witness protection program
Disappeared (religious involvement)
Murders + child abduction
4. two votes apiece
Family (revenge motif)
Murder(s) + disappeared
Voluntary disappearance
Murders + suicide
3. three votes apiece
Drug deal gone bad
Done in by locals (cash in briefcase)
Accidental deaths - bodies still undiscovered
2. five votes
Saw something they shouldn't have; killed as a result
1. seven votes
Done in by family (financial gain)

Snoopster said:

BBM

Your description of that mountain terrain makes me lean even stronger to the money motive scenarios. Thanks for that first hand perspective of the locale.

I had not read about the cigarette carton. You know, it's the little details like that that can tell a lot.

Thanks for all of your dedication to this case mtrooper! :applause:

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Ditto from me for all of the above! Thanks mtrooper.

The opened carton of cigarettes is a huge clue! Being a smoker myself, there is no way they would leave them behind! I doubt very much anyone looked for cigarette butts on the ground. That would be tell tale sign they had been there!

I wonder if there were any OPENED packs of cigarettes, lighters, matches in the truck?

little726 said:

The opened carton of cigarettes is a huge clue! Being a smoker myself, there is no way they would leave them behind! I doubt very much anyone looked for cigarette butts on the ground. That would be tell tale sign they had been there!

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Not a smoker myself, but from experience I can safely say cigarette butts are one of the most overlooked pieces of evidence at crime scenes. (That and investigative persons' cigarette butts left at scenes...)