17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #17

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LolaMoon08 said:
Oh, there's going to be a trial. George Zimmerman will be charged and arrested for Manslaughter in the next six days. He may even be charged with a separate Federal charge too.

Then we will finally get a Doc. Dump. and be able to see Zimmerman's original statements, his original audio interview, and walk through. We will also get Trayvon's autopsy!

MOO
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From your lips to God's ears!!!! :woohoo:
 
Seriously, I am not worried about an arrest. I think it is coming! I think Zimmerman's lawyer knows it's coming. He wouldn't have released a statement saying his client would "peacefully turn himself in" if he didn't know an arrest was coming!

The good thing about that... is that we will finally get more information. Information that we need to really look into this case. Because Zimmerman has not yet been charged with a crime, the Sunshine Laws have not been to our advantage.

I have a lot of faith that he will be arrested within the next 6 days. Some people may not agree with that... but I believe it is the ONLY way to figure out what happened that night. If he's innocent... he can prove it!
 
vlpate said:
Many people have died from head injuries that didn't break the skin. The law doesn't require one to sustain discernible injuries to prove self defense.
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I agree with the bolded above. My father nearly died from a subdural hematoma he sustained getting into the car. He hit his head on the top of the door opening and not all that hard, either. It wasn't until two weeks later when my mother noticed he wasn't making any sense that she insisted on taking him to the emergency room, and not a moment too soon.

It's this personal experience that causes me to wonder if Mr. Zimmerman really did in fact, tell the EMTs that he had his head "bashed against the concrete" or had received any other hard blows to the head. I find it hard to believe that a medical tech worth his salt would not insist that he be taken to a hospital and thoroughly checked out under those cirmumstances.

IMO
 
Helplessly Hoping said:
Crump talking about Zimmerman's family saying how badly he was beaten and asking the obvious--why no bandaid on head or trip to the hospital?

ME~Still can't believe EMT's would let such a severe head injury go unattended. JMO
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I left a hospital... I had been knocked unconscious, when I came to I could not see, I could not remember the past year. Someone drove me to the hospital. They took xrays of my shoulder because I guess I told them my shoulder hurt. Said nothing was broken and sent me home. Did not clean the abrasions on my head, and did not appear to be concerned about my memory loss or temporary loss of vision. Yep, that was a hospital of a not so small city.
 
Helplessly Hoping said:
I completely agree and EMT's are trained to discern which injuries are problematic. The fact they didn't insist on treatment tells me something. JMO
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I would think they would have covered a gash if there was one to keep the wound clean to prevent an infection. jmo
 
Bumping OP.

Read it. Read it now, read it often.

imamaze said:
Please continue here.
Remember the rules: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=159
Remember the "ignore" feature on your profile page.
Please stick with the facts as reported by LE or MSM, and link them. Link them often if necessary.
Please clearly state when it is your opinion. If you are making an inference please clearly outline and link the facts and evidence that have led you to form that inference. Wild speculation about any case player has no place here.
Please PM a mod with any questions or concerns and alert any TOS violations or offensive posts.
And finally, PLEASE address one another respectfully. Last reminder.

We will no longer allow discussion of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, or the Black Panther protest(s). There are way too many <modsnips> and timeouts to continue this discussion. We will allow MSM links to such protests, but no discussion.
We need to stick to the facts of this case and that's our discussion here. Please, we ask that you do what you do best - SLEUTH THE CASE.
Blogs and Twitter links and discussion of them are allowed only if it's an approved WS link or a link from main stream media (MSM).


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Clairfication on WS stance regarding the "victim friendly" issue.
I had a discussion with the owners about how we were to deal with this. This is what I was advised:
At this point in the investigation we don't KNOW exactly who ALL the victims are now. We KNOW that Trayvon is a victim, because he is dead. However, news breaks and new leaks come forth everyday and it is still unclear whether Zimmerman was a victim of any violence. Until more verifiable FACTS are available, WS has chosen to err on the side of treating both the confirmed (Trayvon) AND potential (Zimmerman) victim, both as victims.
Like I said, that may change after we have more verifiable information
Hope that helps clear this up.
Please bump as needed.

Just a reminder:
WS does not permit links that request or suggest sending donations without the clear permission of the owners . This is to protect our members and for no other reason.
__________________
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Yoda said:
I left a hospital... I had been knocked unconscious, when I came to I could not see, I could not remember the past year. Someone drove me to the hospital. They took xrays of my shoulder because I guess I told them my shoulder hurt. Said nothing was broken and sent me home. Did not clean the abrasions on my head, and did not appear to be concerned about my memory loss or temporary loss of vision. Yep, that was a hospital of a not so small city.
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That is horrible and sorry you went throught that. There is negligence all over the place--but this was a homicide and per the shooter's family he was battered to the point of being on the verge of living in diapers? Something is off here somewhere. JMO
 
I had two 1 inch cuts on the back of my head from getting it slammed into cement by my marine brother in-law while we were both home from leave at the same time. During the ride to he hospital to get it sewn up my sister was holding a towel on my head. When we got there the towel and my shirt were soaked with blood. The whole shirt was soaked in blood, top to bottom.
 
Helplessly Hoping said:
That is horrible and sorry you went throught that. There is negligence all over the place--but this was a homicide and per the shooter's family he was battered to the point of being on the verge of living in diapers? Something is off here somewhere. JMO
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Plus I'm not sure that an EMT working for the fire department is under the same stress you would see in an ER on a busy night. Afterall they are the first to see a victim and in most cases have already treated the injuries by the time they get to the hospital. I agree, something is off. jmo
 
Dr.Fessel said:
I had two 1 inch cuts on the back of my head from getting it slammed into cement by my marine brother in-law while we were both home from leave at the same time. During the ride to he hospital to get it sewn up my sister was holding a towel on my head. When we got there the towel and my shirt were soaked with blood. The whole shirt was soaked in blood, top to bottom.
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was it slammed over and over again like GZs father claims happened to him?
 
While protests and rallies continued in Miami and Tallahassee demanding murder charges in the Trayvon Martin case, the teen&#8217;s shooter bolstered his legal defense by hiring another veteran attorney to represent him.

Former Gainesville police officer and University of Florida grad Hal Uhrig appeared on the Fox affiliate saying he&#8217;d been hired to help defend George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer at the Retreat at Twin Lakes subdivision in Sanford.

Uhrig, a criminal defense attorney, is a familiar face for Orlando TV viewers: he was a legal analyst on that Fox station during the Casey Anthony case.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/04/2732242/new-defense-lawyer-hired-as-rallies.html#storylink=cpy
 
Velouria said:
I agree with the bolded above. My father nearly died from a subdural hematoma he sustained getting into the car. He hit his head on the top of the door opening and not all that hard, either. It wasn't until two weeks later when my mother noticed he wasn't making any sense that she insisted on taking him to the emergency room, and not a moment too soon.

It's this personal experience that causes me to wonder if Mr. Zimmerman really did in fact, tell the EMTs that he had his head "bashed against the concrete" or had received any other hard blows to the head. I find it hard to believe that a medical tech worth his salt would not insist that he be taken to a hospital and thoroughly checked out under those cirmumstances.

IMO
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**WS verified Paramedic here**

The paramedic could insist all he wants but if GZ is alert and oriented to person, place and time he has the right to refuse all or portions of treatment or transportation. To touch the patient otherwise would be assault and battery and to transport the patient would be kidnapping. Unless GZ was incapacitated to the point where the paramedics were to believe that he was unable to make prudent decisions for himself, then they have to respect his wishes and not transport him to the hospital. He should be made aware of all the risks of refusing transport and made to sign a release of care prior to the paramedics clearing the scene. Without seeing the medical report, we are unable to ascertain whether they offered to bandage his wounds or if the bleeding from the wound had stopped. If GZ was insistent that the medics leave him alone, it is very possible that they assessed him, signed him off and cleared the scene.
 
http://www.usfa.fema.gov/pdf/efop/efo45391.pdf

Here is the standard of care protocol review for Sanford which emphasizes report writing..

If Mr. Zimmerman was not transported I have no doubt he signed a refusal of care form. I served in another state for 10 years as an FF/EMT. Believe me if someone refuses to go to the hospital they sign a form that says they refuse transport. It is CYA to avoid lawsuits. However there are protocols in every department which state that you can involve law enforcement to force a transport if you feel the refusal would be severely detrimental to the well being of the patient and that the person refusing transportation is not able to make that determination on their own.

Pay particular attention to page 31 & 32. It spells out what must be on the report. It specifically specifies refusal to care or as we used to refer to it, refusal for transport.

Sanford is a full-time department with over 400 employees both Basic level and paramedic level. This is a peer review document. To teach how to write reports in a consistent uniform manner and to review whether their reports meet the standards set for this agency. Recommendations were made at the end of this report for improvement. This is a very progressive step in ensuring this department met all requirements of quality patient care in reporting IMO.

The medical records of Mr. Zimmerman can be subpenaed. They will be detailed to the specifics of each and every injury.

edited to add the last phrase in bold because ECS is correct if they are of sane mind you cannot force the transport.
 
ecs5298 said:
**WS verified Paramedic here**

The paramedic could insist all he wants but if GZ is alert and oriented to person, place and time he has the right to refuse all or portions of treatment or transportation. To touch the patient otherwise would be assault and battery and to transport the patient would be kidnapping. Unless GZ was incapacitated to the point where the paramedics were to believe that he was unable to make prudent decisions for himself, then they have to respect his wishes and not transport him to the hospital. He should be made aware of all the risks of refusing transport and made to sign a release of care prior to the paramedics clearing the scene. Without seeing the medical report, we are unable to ascertain whether they offered to bandage his wounds or if the bleeding from the wound had stopped. If GZ was insistent that the medics leave him alone, it is very possible that they assessed him, signed him off and cleared the scene.
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It appears GZ has a bruise or gash on his head from the pictures but how well do the paramedic's clean up a victim if they find no injuries or open wounds. Do they make sure that all the blood is cleaned off him or could those red spots we see in the video be dried blood from TM? jmo
 
Velouria said:
I think it depends on who you ask. He was a co-worker and seemed to know of George mainly through his wife, who was friends with Zimmerman's mother. Sounds more like an acquaintance to me. At any rate, he had no credibility whatsoever.

Thus far I have not been impressed with anyone who claims to represent GZ's interests - not Oliver, Taafe, Sonner, his brother nor his father. None of them seem to be able to elucidate any facts in a consistent and believable manner, or even sound like they've had a thorough discussion with GZ regarding what happened that night.

IMHO
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I read an article about GZ's lawyer that said they have only talked by phone. Will get back with the link in a sec....
 
ecs5298 said:
**WS verified Paramedic here**

The paramedic could insist all he wants but if GZ is alert and oriented to person, place and time he has the right to refuse all or portions of treatment or transportation. To touch the patient otherwise would be assault and battery and to transport the patient would be kidnapping. Unless GZ was incapacitated to the point where the paramedics were to believe that he was unable to make prudent decisions for himself, then they have to respect his wishes and not transport him to the hospital. He should be made aware of all the risks of refusing transport and made to sign a release of care prior to the paramedics clearing the scene. Without seeing the medical report, we are unable to ascertain whether they offered to bandage his wounds or if the bleeding from the wound had stopped. If GZ was insistent that the medics leave him alone, it is very possible that they assessed him, signed him off and cleared the scene.
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Thank you for your post. I always thought that it would be a bit out of line for LE to have EMT's strap a person down and take them to the hospital against that person wish's because it would be a good idea for further testing to be done.
 
Coming up next on Lawrence O'Donnell is Charles Blow, they will be talking about Trayvon.
 
O'Donnell and Blow are going to "help" Zimmerman's new attorney get up to speed. LOL

Up next on MSNBC
 
Reader said:
I read an article about GZ's lawyer that said they have only talked by phone. Will get back with the link in a sec....
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Well, his attorney is not suppose to lie so if he said GZ was injured and the info comes from GZ, the attorney is not lying because he did not see him face-to-face. He's just taking GZ's word for it. jmo
 
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