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JerseyGirl said:
This is the one line that has me sold on her guilt. Number one, who in the hell is concerned about something like this while your dead and dying children are still lying bloody on the floor in front of you??? Secondly, it seems as if she already knew that she had to have a story for why there are no prints. Just because she picked up the alleged attacker's knife doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been prints somewhere else even if she had managed to mess up any prints that might have been on the knife.

Thanks for the post, beesy. It was interesting to read it again in regards to the prints.
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This one didn't bother me in the 911 call because it is the dispatcher who first brings it to Darlie's attention that she shouldn't touch the knife. While I agree with your argument above, it isn't really provable. However, when she gets to the hospital and keeps on bringing it up, over and over again, it is obvious that she is worried about her prints being on the knife and she wants plenty of witnesses to back her up.

The one line that bothers me the most in the 911 call is when she changes her tone completely and says, "Someone came in here, Darin, and did this!" I think she is responding to something he told police that was not agreed upon earlier or paints her in a bad light. It is like she is reminding him to stay focused.
 
beesy said:
04:18:14 911 Operator #1 ...ok ma'am ...listen ...there's a police officer at your front door ...is your front door unlocked...
04:22:11 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
04:22:15 Darlie Routier ...yes ma'am ...but where's the ambulance...
04:24:21 911 Operator #1 ...ok...
04:24:23 Darlie Routier ...they're barely breathing...
04:26:17 Darlie Routier ...if they don't get it here they're gonna be dead ...my God they're (unintelligible) ...hurry ...please hurry...
04:31:13 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...they're ...they're...
04:32:18 Police Officer ...what about you...
04:33:06 911 Operator #1 ...is 82 out on Eagle...
04:34:18 Darlie Routier ...huh...
04:35:12 Darin Routier ...they took (unintelligible) ...they ran (unintelligible)...
04:36:28 911 Operator #2 ...(unintelligible)...
04:37:08 Darlie Routier ...we're at Eagle ...5801 Eagle ...my God and hurry...
04:41:03 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
04:41:22 9104:42:25 Police Officer ...nothing's gone Mrs. Routier...
1 Operator #1 ...82 ...are you out...
04:44:10 Darlie Routier ...oh my God ...oh my God ...why would they do this...
04:48:03 RADIO ...(unintelligible) to advise (unintelligible) 200...
04:50:18 Police Officer ...(unintelligible) the problem Mrs. Routier...
04:50:21 911 Operator #1 ...what'd he say...
04:51:29 Darlie Routier ...why would they do this...
04:53:08 Darlie Routier ...I'm (unintelligible)...
04:54:07 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...listen ma'am ...need to ...need to let the officers in the front door ...ok...
04:59:11 Darlie Routier ...what...
05:00:04 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am..
05:00:22 Darlie Routier ...what ...what...
05:01:15 911 Operator #1 ...need to let the police officers in the front door...
05:04:21 Darlie Routier ...(unintelligible) his knife was lying over there and I already picked it up...
05:08:19 911 Operator #1 ...ok ...it's alright ...it's ok...
05:09:20 Darlie Routier ...God ...I bet if we could have gotten the prints maybe ...maybe...
05:13:18 Police Officer ...(unintelligible)...
05:14:18 RADIO ...82 ...we'll be (unintelligible)...
05:17:12 Darlie Routier ...ok ...it'll be...
05:18:08 911 Operator #1 ...ma'am ...hang on ...hang on a second...
05:19:09 Darlie Routier ...somebody who did it intentionally walked in here and did it Darin...
05:20:19 911 Operator #1 ...82 ...10-9...
05:21:23 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
05:22:28 911 Operator #1 ...received...
05:23:05 Darlie Routier ...there's nothing touched...
05:24:12 911 Operator #1 ...ok ma'am...
05:25:13 Darlie Routier ...there's nothing touched...
05:26:20 RADIO ...(unintelligible)...
05:28:00 Darlie Routier ...oh my God...
The PO told Darlie nearly a full min. earlier that nothing's gone, which is not what she repeated. I highlighted it and Darin's half heard statement right before that. The PO only says it once. The cops did perform a quick search before letting the paramedics in, as is standard practice. However, I still believe her wailing "there's nothing touched" is telling us more than what the cops told her, especially coming on the heels of the very clear headed 05:19:09 Darlie Routier ...somebody who did it intentionally walked in here and did it Darin... mere seconds before. Remember, Damon is still alive and needs help throughout this call. The cops are already there, hang up the damn phone! Most people who call 911 hang up as soon as help arrives. Dispatch likes to keep them on the line til then. But like others have said, don't disconnect, drop the phone and help that baby!
By the way, I think the officer mispronounced Routier didn't he?
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Yes, but why would Darin tell the police right away that nothing was taken? Maybe the policeman asked? Could be, I guess. Or it could have been him covering his butt and leaving Darlie's out to dry.
 
accordn2me said:
Do you have JonGalt's...timeline, I guess is what she called it? I think I saw it on your site - the pink one.:p It could have been somewhere else.

Although it's pure speculation, she had really looked at the blood and come up with some convincing theories about how it got where it did. I remember her pondering the utility room. She said she couldn't figure out what Darlie was doing in there for so long. I would love to read that again. Do you know if the blood in the utility room was addressed in the trial? I don't remember reading in Darlie's statement that she went into the utility room. Did they test the blood in there?

Do you know if LE ever came up with their own theory about Damon - if there was 2 attacks? Is there any testimony about the handprint on the couch being wiped away?
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The state had several theories. I don't think they ever really nailed it all down into one continuous thing. One DA did argue that Damon was stabbed on two separate attacks, that he moved from where the initial attack took place and died basically near the kitchen doorway where he ended up and was stabbed again.

There was evidence about the handprint, but I cannot remember if it was at thet trial or just stated by police during interviews. They luminoled a child's handprint on the couch and it immediately liquified. As I understand it, that was because it was on the surface of the vinyl and not previously washed off, which luminol would have picked up. Consequently, the handprint evidence was lost.
 
Mary456 said:
If Darlie planted the sock to implicate an intruder, she would have thrown it in the backyard where the police would be sure to find it. I think she took it 75 yards down the alley because she needed to get rid of it. She probably aimed for the storm drain or trash can that were right there where the sock was found (and missed, of course).

.
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Maybe they were trying to destroy evidence and the sock just didn't make the trash can/sewer drain near where it was found. The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to agree with federal experts that it was found too far away to be a plant to mislead. It makes sense that someone desperately afraid of getting caught would want to make sure the planted evidence was found and the best place for that would have been somewhere near that back gate because it would support her claims that he fled through the garage and backyard.
 
Goody said:
Yes, but why would Darin tell the police right away that nothing was taken? Maybe the policeman asked? Could be, I guess. Or it could have been him covering his butt and leaving Darlie's out to dry.
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If you read the cops' and paramedics' statements, Sgt. Walling had arrived by then and done his cursory search of the house. Remember once that 911 call began, Damon only had 8 mins left to live and we're already over 4 mins into the call at that point. The 1st paramedics on the scene were already parked on the street, waiting for the house to be checked. So Darin did not tell the cop, the cop told Darin, and that might be Sgt. Walling telling her "nothing's gone, Mrs. Routier". Darin is responding to something the cops asked or said when they had finished their search.
What that tells us is that, once again, Darlie is more concerned with setting up the story than with saving her child. I find it interesting that we never hear her ask about Drake. Darin knew he was ok, but she shouldn't have yet.
 
Goody said:
Maybe they were trying to destroy evidence and the sock just didn't make the trash can/sewer drain near where it was found. The more I think about it, the more I am inclined to agree with federal experts that it was found too far away to be a plant to mislead. It makes sense that someone desperately afraid of getting caught would want to make sure the planted evidence was found and the best place for that would have been somewhere near that back gate because it would support her claims that he fled through the garage and backyard.
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right, a plant is too far away and it did nothing for her, but in the backyard or at the gate it would have. Most likely he/she was aiming for the trash can/sewer drain, missed, either didn't notice or panicked as the time slipped away.
 
Goody said:
This one didn't bother me in the 911 call because it is the dispatcher who first brings it to Darlie's attention that she shouldn't touch the knife. While I agree with your argument above, it isn't really provable. However, when she gets to the hospital and keeps on bringing it up, over and over again, it is obvious that she is worried about her prints being on the knife and she wants plenty of witnesses to back her up.

The one line that bothers me the most in the 911 call is when she changes her tone completely and says, "Someone came in here, Darin, and did this!" I think she is responding to something he told police that was not agreed upon earlier or paints her in a bad light. It is like she is reminding him to stay focused.
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yes, I totally agree that the someone came in here, Darin.... comment is very disturbing.
When she says "we could have gotten prints maybe.." she sounds guilty. It's not just what she said, but HOW she says it. She's floundering, setting up the story. Listen to it again, with this in mind. She talked too much for her own good. Throughout this whole thing she did and she's still doing it. Shut up Darlie and hang up the phone
 
JerseyGirl said:
This is the one line that has me sold on her guilt. Number one, who in the hell is concerned about something like this while your dead and dying children are still lying bloody on the floor in front of you??? Secondly, it seems as if she already knew that she had to have a story for why there are no prints. Just because she picked up the alleged attacker's knife doesn't mean that there wouldn't have been prints somewhere else even if she had managed to mess up any prints that might have been on the knife.

Thanks for the post, beesy. It was interesting to read it again in regards to the prints.
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You're welcome! just because she picked up the knife, it doesn't mean she obscured all the prints, if there had been any in the 1st place and like you said, there should have been other prints anyway other places. See? She talked too much
 
beesy said:
So you think Darin and Darlie creat:waitasec:ed a story after she stabbed the boys? What about while she was still attacking them? Like he ran downstairs and "said what have you done or what are you doing"? Then they figured things out from there?
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I am not sure where Darin fits into this crime, but I am sure he fits into it somewhere.

beesy said:
Can you hear Waddell saying nothing's been touched? If you're just going on the basis of Darin saying it to him
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beesy said:
in the background and we can't hear it on the tape, where'd you get the idea Darin said it?
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Because Waddell doesn't have ESP and Darlie didn't tell him. That only leaves one other person who could have. Darin walked into the house with Waddell. They were talking as they walked. They talked just out of earshot of the 911 recorder once in the house. Since it is standard for police to ask what happened, was anything taken, etc, it seems reasonable to conclude that Darin must have told Waddell that nothing was taken. I mean, Waddell would not have known what the intruder wanted. He could have been after drugs, not TVs and VCRs. I just don't see any way that Waddell could have determined on his own that nothing was taken that soon after his arrival unless someone told him.

beesy said:
And what is your speculation on what was said to make her look bad? I don't think I've heard this theory before.
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She just sounds so defensive that I asked myself what could have been said to trigger that statement and tone from her. That means she must have been listening to Waddell and Darin and something Darin said (because she addresses him in a defensive tone) must have made her feel threatened or weakened their story. I think she was getting Darin back on track.

beesy said:
You are right about their "posts" I believe. Why was it so important for only Darin to be with Devon and only briefly check Damon for life? When people create stories like this, there's always some reason why part of the lie is so important. What makes it so important for them to say she never went to Devon?
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I don't know why. Just speculating, my guess is that there was something to fear at each post for the one who didn't go near it, It must have had something to do with the evidence they believed would be found there. I sense that Darlie did not go to Devon because she killed him. The same with Damon but he was attacked from the back and probably done more out of necessity than whatever motivated Devon's killing.

beesy said:
Darin says he has so many years(7 I think) of medical training. Why the hell didn't he tell her only dry towels work to stop bleeding? ?
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Because none of that ever happened. If it did, he would have. Simple as that.

beesy said:
When blood came out of Devon's chest and back into Darin's mouth, why didn't he leave him and help Damon? He admits he knew he was still alive, but barely, maybe because he wasn't supposed to?
beesy said:
You know, no one remembers seeing blood all over Darin except Darin. I think by the time Devon was given CPR, he had been dead long enough for the blood to have settled Not much would have been blowing out the way Darin described. I don't think he even performed CPR until Waddell was in the house and there is no proof he did then either. He managed to position himself so Waddell couldn't see what he was doing. If Darin was in on these killings in any way, even just in the cover up, he would not have wanted either child to survive any more than Darlie did. I suspect though that he was part of it before the deed was done.

beesy said:
One of the jurors on the Leeza show said they believe Devon had his legs raised up kicking the killer, which made his buttocks exposed to the knife. The killer must have fought with him. There's the knife pattern in the carpet, most likely because the killer had to put the knife down to hold him down. Did Darin help with that? The more we brainstorm on this, the more confused I get.
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beesy said:
beesy said:
I don't know how exactly Darin participated, but I doubt if he would have held down the boys. I would think that some blood evidence would have pointed to him if he had done that. Darin strikes me as more of a sneaky person, someone who presents himself as one thing but really is quite different behind the facade. One poster at another sight, a guy btw, said that he was worse than Darlie because he was the wimp who hid out in the next room while the murders took place. I don't have a problem seeing Darin in that light, but is that what happened? Only he and Darlie know for sure.

I do think that Devon's death came first and that everything that happened after that was a result of his death, not some diabolical plan to kill both kids. Because they are melodramtic by nature, the cover up became melodramatic. One thing they both have in common is that they both placed themselves with an alibi that took all responsibility away from them. Darin slept through the attacks, Darlie suffered from traumatic amnesia and couldn't remember the attacks. That rings totally untrue, that they both could have such similar alibis and be innocent....or have only one of them be guilty.
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beesy said:
right, a plant is too far away and it did nothing for her, but in the backyard or at the gate it would have. Most likely he/she was aiming for the trash can/sewer drain, missed, either didn't notice or panicked as the time slipped away.
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Wonder what else they threw away that night?
 
Goody said:
This one didn't bother me in the 911 call because it is the dispatcher who first brings it to Darlie's attention that she shouldn't touch the knife.
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Oh really? I don't recall that. Thanks. :)
 
JerseyGirl said:
Oh really? I don't recall that. Thanks. :)
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It was the dispatcher who told her not to touch the knife, but the "fingerprint" discussion was all Darlie . . .
 
JerseyGirl said:
Oh really? I don't recall that. Thanks. :)
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Actually when she says "I already touched it and picked it up" I feel a flicker of concern for her. She sounds like a little girl there and that one line rings true to me. If she had been attacked by an intruder, she would have been told not to touch anything and she probably would have said the same thing. You know, maybe even at that point she hadn't thought about the lack of a stranger's fingerprints on the knife. Ok, I said a flicker, as soon as she opened her big mouth in the next instant, she lost me again.
 
Goody said:
[/color][/color]
Because Waddell doesn't have ESP and Darlie didn't tell him. That only leaves one other person who could have. Darin walked into the house with Waddell. They were talking as they walked. They talked just out of earshot of the 911 track.
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after asking that question, I looked at all 4 of the books I have. They all put Sgt. Walling and the paramedics at the scene when you hear the PO say "nothing's gone Mrs. Routier" and then "blah blah the problem, Mrs. Routier". Waddell and Walling had quickly run thru the kitchen and garage right before that. They must have been telling Darlie the house was clear. Then the Sgt. ran out to tell the paramedics to come in. They've only got 8 mins. after Damon's fatal wound. The PO is heard saying "nothing's gone" a full 4:42 mins. into the 911 call. The paramedic said Damon was still alive when he went in. This is the only way you can squeeze in that timeline. The cops had to have already checked some of the house.
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Goody said:
[/color][/


I don't know how exactly Darin participated, but I doubt if he would have held

I do think that Devon's death came first and that everything that happened after that was a result of his death, not some diabolical plan to kill both kids. Because they are melodramtic by nature, the cover up became melodramatic. One thing they both have in common is that they both placed themselves with an alibi that took all responsibility away from them. Darin slept through the attacks, Darlie suffered from traumatic amnesia and couldn't remember the attacks. That rings totally untrue, that they both could have such similar alibis and be innocent....or have only one of them be guilty.
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I think most people believe Devon was attacked first, but most people think it was a diabolical plan to kill both kids. What are your thoughts as to why Devon was killed? Then you're saying Damon was killed because he saw Devon being murdered?
 
Jeana (DP) said:
It was the dispatcher who told her not to touch the knife, but the "fingerprint" discussion was all Darlie . . .
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True but if she had not gone on about it at the hospital to anyone who would listen, her comments on the 911 tape wouldn't seem so important. I do agree though that she does add the fingerprints into the conversation with the dispatcher and she has to bring the dispatcher's attention back to the knife to do it. It doesn't seem to fit in there naturally.
 
beesy said:
yes, I totally agree that the someone came in here, Darin.... comment is very disturbing.
When she says "we could have gotten prints maybe.." she sounds guilty. It's not just what she said, but HOW she says it. She's floundering, setting up the story. Listen to it again, with this in mind. She talked too much for her own good. Throughout this whole thing she did and she's still doing it. Shut up Darlie and hang up the phone
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Agreed but 911 dispatchers try to keep people on the line until a police officer arrives. I was surprised that she stayed on the phone so long after Waddell arrived. She didn't even tell the dispatcher that he was there.
 
beesy said:
You're welcome! just because she picked up the knife, it doesn't mean she obscured all the prints, if there had been any in the 1st place and like you said, there should have been other prints anyway other places. See? She talked too much
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That is typical of someone trying to hide their guilt. They think they have to explain things right from the beginning so that the police won't go in the wrong direction. They try to control too much.
 
beesy said:
I think most people believe Devon was attacked first, but most people think it was a diabolical plan to kill both kids. What are your thoughts as to why Devon was killed? Then you're saying Damon was killed because he saw Devon being murdered?
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I can't rule out a plot to kill the kids in advance. That would explain some of Darin's behavior after the crime. The weak spot in that is that it was so poorly planned, so they couldn't have spent much time thinking about detail. Not surprising in one way. They don't strike me as people who are very good at detail. I think they were used to running by the seat of their pants and having most things just sort of work out.

But Devon's wounds seem to tell me that something happened specifically between him and his mother that night, something that led to the attack on him. He did not have much fighting back time but he I do believe he did the best he could, which is why he has that stab wound to his butt.

I don't know if the argument between them was real or not, or if it was real, how bad it really was. They fought a lot so it may not have been any worse than any other disagreement they had.

I think Damon was killed because they did not know how to explain why one child was attacked and not the other. It is possible that he saw it and could point fingers, but it is also possible that he slept thru it and was sacrificed for the cause, so to speak. He had to become part of the cover up. They might have rationalized it with not wanting him to go thru the shock and grief of losing his brother at such a young age, because they were so close, one could not go without the other, etc. They were very dramatic, even by their own admissions, and I think truly believed the children would understand and forgive them.
 
beesy said:
If you read the cops' and paramedics' statements, Sgt. Walling had arrived by then and done his cursory search of the house. Remember once that 911 call began, Damon only had 8 mins left to live and we're already over 4 mins into the call at that point. The 1st paramedics on the scene were already parked on the street, waiting for the house to be checked. So Darin did not tell the cop, the cop told Darin, and that might be Sgt. Walling telling her "nothing's gone, Mrs. Routier". Darin is responding to something the cops asked or said when they had finished their search.
What that tells us is that, once again, Darlie is more concerned with setting up the story than with saving her child. I find it interesting that we never hear her ask about Drake. Darin knew he was ok, but she shouldn't have yet.
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O, they both knew Drake was okay. They knew because they knew there was no intruder.

I can't argue with your deduction about who determined nothing was gone because I just plain don't know.
 
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