GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #5

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I am trying to determine the traits of an arsonist.

This recent crime in Alberta, Canada, grabbed my attention. It says "Arson Detective". I wonder what they are all about?

In the U.S. there are "Bureau of Fire and Arson Investigations Detectives".

I wonder if LE has an Arson Detective helping with this case?

CALGARY - Police say an arson attack and a severed cat's head left on a doorstep to intimidate a witness are the work of a psychopath. ​

There are disturbing connections between a home set on fire in the 7100 block of Temple Drive N.E. on Aug. 15 and a neighbourhood cat's head left on a witness's doorstep Monday, Calgary police say. ​

"We have great concern. Anyone who would set a fire and intentionally trap people inside is a concern. It's a trait of a psychopath," said arson Det. Scott Sampson, who discovered the decapitated head of a cat Monday as he arrived to interview a witness about the arson. ​



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crocus said:
Just thinking out loud........

Could the 3 be very close to TH's home? As in maybe right under everybody's nose?

Also - was Hoffman in the house at the time on Wednesday evening when the sheriff's patrol paid 2 visits to the home?
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That area has been searched according to the FB site (Discussions). Of course we have no idea how thorough the search was since it appears it was private searches rather than LE. I wonder if dogs were brought into that area where all the victims live?

It hasn't been reported that MH was in the residence that I know of but imo.....I believe it's highly likely he may have been during at least one of the times LE did the wellness check.

I still keep thinking about Tina's friend/manager becoming so highly alarmed so quickly when she didn't show up at work. I can understand being concerned but the person was alarmed enough to request LE check on the residence right away. I wonder if Tina had expressed safety concerns recently to the friend/manager?
 
Hoffman had attended the Knox County Career Center and East Knox schools, that he did have seasonal employment as a tree trimmer, and that he owned a home in the county.
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http://www.mountvernonnews.com/local/10/11/16/hoffman-bond-set-at-1-million-on-kidnapping-charge


Hoffman grew up in northeast Ohio and spent his first two years of high school near Warren before moving to the central part of the state, where he attended Knox County Career Center in Mount Vernon.

Following graduation in 1999, he moved to Colorado and worked as a plumber in Steamboat Springs.
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http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/nov/16/22/mt-vernon-mom-son-friend-still-missing-ar-292197/
 
Leila said:
I've had a busy day and haven't been able to keep up with the threads on this case. I only scanned the last few pages of thread 4. But I noticed several posts on the subject of the bloody clothing found in Foundation Park.

I heard about a "find" in Foundation Park on Sunday night and checked out the FaceBook page where it was posted by someone. Evidently the post had been removed as it was considered just a rumor.

Then, in one of the linked newspaper articles on this case that someone here at WS linked, I read the readers comments that followed the article and in those comments someone stated that a patrolman found "bloody boys shorts" on Sunday. That may be what prompted the search of Foundation Park yesterday.

Another article yesterday stated that the "blood" on the shorts was tested and it wasn't human blood. I assume it was from an animal or another substance.

Is this the "bloody clothing" that was mentioned in several posts on thread 4?
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This is the direct quote from one article:

... an officer patrolling overnight had found what he thought was bloody clothing potentially related to the investigation, police Capt. George Hartz said. But tests did not find any human blood on the clothing, he said.
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http://www2.nbc4i.com/news/2010/nov/15/26/knox-co-girl-found-alive-bound-no-word-3-others-ar-291229/

This could be interpreted to mean that there was blood, but not human, or that what they thought was blood was something else entirely.

JMO
 
Inside an Arsonist's Mind


According to a 1987 report in the FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin, the vast majority of "profiled" arsonists have a below-normal IQ -- typically between 70 and 90. About one in four fall in the below-70 IQ range that qualifies them as mentally retarded -- not to say that all mentally retarded children are going to grow up to be arsonists.​


"In these types of cases, arson is often committed by someone who is retarded but also angry. It's that combination that is a catalyst -- their anger but having fewer means to express it," says Dvoskin. "Honestly, I can't think of a single arsonist I've dealt with for whom anger wasn't the primary motivator."​


In the FBI report, as well as statistics by the U.S. Fire Administration, part of the Department of Homeland Security, half of all arsons are committed by those younger than age 18; the other half is typically in their late 20s. In arson cases involving older people, the motivation is usually for profit. About 90% of all arsonists are male and they are usually white, states the FBI report.​

 
mahmoo said:
That area has been searched according to the FB site (Discussions). Of course we have no idea how thorough the search was since it appears it was private searches rather than LE. I wonder if dogs were brought into that area where all the victims live?

It hasn't been reported that MH was in the residence that I know of but imo.....I believe it's highly likely he may have been during at least one of the times LE did the wellness check.

I still keep thinking about Tina's friend/manager becoming so highly alarmed so quickly when she didn't show up at work. I can understand being concerned but the person was alarmed enough to request LE check on the residence right away. I wonder if Tina had expressed safety concerns recently to the friend/manager?
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BBM

I think it's very telling that the DQ manager called LE. There is an innuendo about it, eh? Just seems like the manager knows a lot about Tina's personal life so as to be very concerned and call LE within such a short time of Tina not showing up for work.
 
I may be way off base, but had some thoughts about the search for Tina, Kody, and Stephanie. I know the Sheriff said they are thinking that the missing are probably still in the area (Knox County), but what if they aren't? There were a number of arsons this past weekend in Ohio, granted, mh would probably have known, or at least guessed that LE was on-to-something or watching him, LE did make contact with him on Thursday, when an officer questioned him about being in the area that Tina's truck was found at the Environmental Center. But what if he started a few fires to distract and/or satisfy his need to control the "situation", and made "drops" along the way? Or, mh had already made a few "drops" on Wednesday night, and started a few fires to distract from where he had "placed" things?

Apologies, just thinking aloud...

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/crime/arson-suspected-in-2-xenia-fires-1005133.html
 
crocus said:
I think for sure Stephanie's vehicle must have been found in Tina's garage. Those 2 home visits by the sheriff's patrol on Wednesday only cited that the truck was in the driveway.

Why hide Stephanie's vehicle and not Tina's?
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I am just guessing, but it may be he hid Stephanie's vehicle in the garage at the time of the crime so he wouldn't arouse suspicion. Somebody may have drove by wondering where she was and saw her vehicle in the driveway. Tina's truck in the driveway wouldn't arouse suspicion. As for moving her vehicle, Tina's truck may have been used in the crime because MH's vehicle was too small to take 3 people in it if he did something with them. JMO
 
Did they say he bought tarps (multiple), and they found garbage bags with one tarp? So there are still tarps missing?
 
It was stated that in MH's Steamboat Springs conviction for arson, MH had a motive for starting the fire: he was covering up the crime of breaking in.

So, I ask again, I haven't seen an answer, and I find it kind of odd.

Has LE released the name of the victim of the vacant house fire from Friday night?


From this Arson Fact Sheet:

-other motives for starting fire may be for fun, attention, or to conceal other crimes.

-They are generally loners and often drink alcohol heavily.

-They often use exaggerated facial expressions to prove their innocence when answering questions.

http://www.norfolk.gov/nfr/arson.asp
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I want to echo Ronso from the old thread - Mt. Vernon isn't a high crime area. I live in the Columbus metro area, and we rarely hear about crime there on the news. The City of Columbus itself had a higher rate of crime this past summer, particularly murders, but Mt. Vernon is far enough away that it really wouldn't be touched by that.
 
nerosleuth said:
What do we know about Matthew Hoffman? Where was he born at? Where did he live at when he was growing up?

Looking at a possible different angle here. We know that Tina Herrmann is two years older than Matthew Hoffman.

Is it possible that years ago that Tina and Matthew may have went to the same school together, but they were in different grades?
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101116/ap_on_re_us/us_ohio_family_missing

"Hoffman grew up in northeast Ohio and spent his first two years of high school near Warren before moving to the central part of the state, where he attended a career center. Following graduation in 1999, he moved to Colorado and worked as a plumber in Steamboat Springs".

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40193670/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

"Hoffman was allowed to move to Ohio in 2007 after being released on parole, which ended about a month ago. He had paid about $4,800 toward $2.06 million in restitution, Colorado court system spokesman Jon Sarche said.

Hoffman's mother and stepfather own a home about a mile from where Sarah and her mother lived in a split-level house surrounded by a big yard, trees and two country roads. Hoffman last lived at his mother's home two years ago, said a woman who answered the door Monday and identified herself as his mother."
 
Wondergirl said:
It was stated that in MH's Steamboat Springs conviction for arson, MH had a motive for starting the fire: he was covering up the crime of breaking in.

So, I ask again, I haven't seen an answer, and I find it kind of odd.

Has LE released the name of the victim of the vacant house fire from Friday night?
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That fire has concerned me for days. And no, I haven't seen any MSM announcement about that fire since the initial report. Of course, I am thinking that it might take some time to ID that victim. :(

And I'm disappointed that no reporter in the pressies asked about it (unless they were told it was tabu), KWIM?
 
nerosleuth said:
What do we know about Matthew Hoffman? Where was he born at? Where did he live at when he was growing up?

Looking at a possible different angle here. We know that Tina Herrmann is two years older than Matthew Hoffman.

Is it possible that years ago that Tina and Matthew may have went to the same school together, but they were in different grades?
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I've done just a little preliminary checking of some records. Matthew J. Hoffman has a mother, step-father, and a sister who's 5 years older than him, all living in Howard, Ohio.

What was he doing in Colorado?
 
There has been quite a bit of speculation here about underground bunkers. While there is a history involving them, I find it hard to believe that there would be that many lying about. MH lived alone in a five-bedroom house. It would be far easier for him to build a hidden room or closet in there than to dig and furnish a bunker in the bush. I hope that LE searched that house very thoroughly for such a possibility.

Also, LE has been searching woods, ponds, fields. What about vacant houses, businesses, storage lockers? Are there many of those in the area? Is there a local dump?

I'm thinking that with Sarah being left alone in MH's house, he might have been reluctant to leave her alone for long periods of time. Disposing of three people, dead or alive, is not a quick, easy job.

JMO
 
sorry if this has already been mentioned already folks. great job to all by the way.
just thinking outside the awful box here but what if there were 2 targets that day. both kids. i believe the friend was an unplanned part of this whole thing, so what if the kids were the target. what if they were not even for MH? what if he took them for another person or persons for payment. what if the boy had already been "delivered" and he was waiting to deliver the girl?that would only have left 2 bodies to dispose of.
y
I would also be interested to know how the neighbors percieved the mini-pin dog. i say that because i have been around a few and they are yappy little guys with bigtime nepolean complexes. they think they are the toughest dog on the block. lots of barking. i wonder if the neighbors were close enough to hear the dog often. outside yes, but particularly when inside his home. my neighbor has 2 little dogs and i can hear them going whether they are out or inside the door barking at me. if the dog was easily noticed, i wonder when the last time anyone heard it was. often a dog barking is the only thing people notice about crimes commited in in their proximity when they find out after the fact. kinda like the OJ case.
 
To me the fact that her boss called LE means that she must have been a good employee and never just did not show up for work without calling and letting someone know that she wouldn't be at work. If I didn't show up for work without calling and letting them know that I wouldn't be there, I hope that my co-workers would be concerned and find me. I was out one day and my boss had forgotten that I had filled out a vacation leave form for a Friday and they called and called my cell phone until they got me. They were worried that I may have wrecked on the way to work.
 
Cazzie said:
Yes. There are other scenarios, too. Unfortunately we're working with less info than LE has.

I'm close to the point of thinking that we need to just trust in LE.

But who knows, maybe one of us will brainstorm an idea that they haven't thought of yet.
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The only thing I can come up with is the three missing people being in an abandoned house, a basement, a barn...........some sort of building that no one would stumble over for some time.
 
Cazzie said:
There's room...room to park in front (maybe in back, too) or even on the lawn. The houses there are not very close together. Sorry, but I don't have a link to a photo, but I saw it on news video.
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This is a photo that appeared in one of the earliest news articles:

knox-county-missing-people-4-111210.jpg
 
Leila said:
I've done just a little preliminary checking of some records. Matthew J. Hoffman has a mother, step-father, and a sister who's 5 years older than him, all living in Howard, Ohio.

What was he doing in Colorado?
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I was just researching the same thing. I am also looking into the fact that the family lived in NE Ohio until MH was probably 16 or so.

I just feel so hopeless and just feel the need to research SOMETHING!
 
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