MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

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waltzingmatilda said:
I took a polygraph for my first real job while still in HS. I was a nervous wreck! I showed deception but was allowed to explain it afterwards. I got the job. I don't think I would ever take one for LE though, I really would be a nervous wreck!

wm
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being a nervous wreck doesn't preclude anyone in failing a LDT. I don't know of anyone who is calm, cool, and collected taking a LDT (on the inside anyway).

You also said you showed deception, but explained it afterwards. So I'm going to assume the LDT was correct in picking up deception?

If I read that wrong - I'm sorry.

If the mum failed her LDT and LE is treating her like a suspect - I think we're probably talking about something not easily explained away...KWIM?

:seeya:

MOO

Deborah Irwin says police told her she failed a lie detector test and are treating her like a suspect!

Source: http://www.hollybaby.com/2011/10/07/missing-baby-lisa-irwins-mom-admits-she-failed-polygraph-test/
 
Would like to know if the mom had a baby monitor in the room...I'm guessing not, right? 'Cause, otherwise, c'mon....what mom doesn't wake up to any/every noise in the baby's room, especially if you put the baby to bed sick. And you can't tell me that a baby can be snatched without one floor creek, door creek, a peep, some sort of noise!
 
raeann said:
When you find it, please also note that the dust ruffle that goes UNDER the mattress is caught up under it or snagged on the metal spring base somehow on the right hand side of the mattress. This indicates (to me at least) that the bed was taken apart and then put back together less than perfectly----or not in the same way it was found. The items inside the bed also would indicate they were placed there by someone who was either searching through them or moving them in the process of cleaning up the room after LE left the scene.

jmo
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Also,just realised the bumper is where it would be if the mattress were placed at the bottom position, clear to me that someone 'inexperienced' in putting a crib together did this.
 
Shelby1 said:
10:30. The mom checked on her before she (the mom) went to bed.
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Sorry, Shelby, I meant an independent sighting outside of someone in her household. Did a neighbor see her playing in the yard that day, or with her mom at the drug store, or anything that we can say she was defintely seen alive that day before she went missing?
 
tlcox said:
I actually took a break from the thread and spent some time visiting with my mother last night so I may have missed anything new but when last I was on, Fox news had reported an "unnamed source close to the investigation" or some such had provided them with the tip about a phone call from the home at 2:30. I do not know if that has ever been vetted anywhere else.

I tend to be suspicious of "unnamed sources" and am skeptical that people "close to the investigation" would be blabbing to the press, although I am sure it does happen sometimes.

Does anyone know, has the 2:30 phone call been covered in other press or have we ever gotten anything more about that? TIA
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I have not seen in MSM that LE have confirmed that there was a 2:30am phone call from the house location from one of the missing phones.
 
raeann said:
The problem here is that at 2:30 pm on Tuesday, the parents were still being questioned and this "spokesperson" officer could not possibly have been made aware of EVERYTHING that they had told officers in the hours and hours of interviews. Plus, he is under no obligation to divulge what info they did have, or to even be truthful, as is the case with any LE officer.

jmo
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There are two pointed questions that he gave an answer to - many questions he stated he did not know the answer to, but these 2 questions were answered with a no:

1. Was anything else missing from the house. NO, and he follows up with, but if there were I'm not sure I could tell you. But his answer is no at that time.

2. He is later asked if there were indications that an intruder had been in the home. He specifically answers NO, other than the window appearing to be tampered with.

I will note that we do know when the 911 call came in, now that I review the press conference, the call came in right around 4. But what was not known at that time was at what time the father got home from work. Young was asked if they knew, because at that time media had heard that the father arrived at 4, and Young said that that "might be", but he didn't have exact times when people came and went.

I understand that Capt. Young wouldn't know everything that was occurring in the investigation, but at the same time, cell phones being missing from the home is not a trivial finding in this case. AND, at that point, would be their number one chance to try to track down the baby. So, if we were talking about keys being gone, that's another issue. When we're talking about 3 cell phones any of which could be vital tools in tracking the abductor and finding the baby...that's a whole nother ball of wax. That Steve Young didn't know that information yet, when asked in two different ways, is disturbing.
 
shefner said:
I agree with scrapping the poly in this case. My son failed one too...given by LE in a case where he was accused of theft. He was grilled mercilessly and a few days later, the accuser located the item he said my son had stolen....it was there in his home all the time, just misplaced. So yes, innocent people do fail them.

The glaring things I cannot get beyond are the unusual ones.
1. The door unlocked on hubby's first night at work.
2. The lights on....what kidnapper does this? None.
3. The kidnapper had to spend time in the house....no one woke up.
4. All the cell phones kept in the same location in the main room without one being
taken into the bedroom with mom? Who cares about reprogramming. Cell phones
are extremely portable. I don't know anyone who wouldn't carry a phone into
their bedroom at night if they were alone with 3 children and hubby was at his
first night on his new job....unless they had a house phone in the bedroom.
5. No scent of baby outside that could be followed. Don't know what to make of
this. Doesn't sound right to me.
6. Dad's version of checking on the kids. Logic would say you would stop at each
child's room as you go down the hallway, which would mean checking on Lisa first.
Also, if he did check on the boys first, would he not freak when one of the sons
was not in his bed? He was sleeping with mom, supposedly...so his bed would
have also been empty.
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We don't know that the door was left unlocked when Deborah went to bed, merely that when Jeremy came home, it was unlocked. A lot of people have a cell phone station in their houses, with the chargers, and that's where they are at night. I don't understand your sequence of checking on the kids - and no, I wouldn't "freak" if a mobile child wasn't in his bed and the lights were on in the home. I'd think the kid got a bowl of cereal or something, and was sleeping in another bed.
 
andalso said:
Would like to know if the mom had a baby monitor in the room...I'm guessing not, right? 'Cause, otherwise, c'mon....what mom doesn't wake up to any/every noise in the baby's room, especially if you put the baby to bed sick. And you can't tell me that a baby can be snatched without one floor creek, door creek, a peep, some sort of noise!
Click to expand...

It came out yesterday that she did, indeed have a monitor, but she didn't hear anything. I hate to admit it, but I've always been a very sound sleeper, even when my kids were babies. Doesn't mean I loved them less or didn't take care of them... it just means that I didn't wake up to every little sound.
 
DLT88 said:
Wow, these things are so revealing about how wrong they can be! And even less trusted is handwriting analysis but I took several classes in this from a renowned graphologist who used to work for Scotland Yard and it can reveal so much. There are so many traits for deception. She has solved so many crimes. You have the person write a normal paragraph about what they did that day with the last sentence saying, for instance, "I had nothing to do with my daughter's disappearance." If you get a bunch of these and the guilty party is among them, you will see a handwriting change (99% of the time) when they get to the "the lie". It's a slant change usually. But there are rare cases where pathological liars convince themselves they didn't do it, and it might not show in their handwriting sample.

Oh -- in these cases where she used this technique, the guilty party who ended up confessing was the handwriting sample she gave to the bosses telling them to question that person further.
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Thanks for sharing the handwriting analysis info. I 've always wondered how it is analyzed.

I failed the LD questions regarding stealing. They ask the same questions over and over but reword them. When I was a wee girl I found a 2" ceramic rooster with it's tail broken at Woolworth's. I felt sorry for it because no one would buy it and I could give it a good home, lol. My sharp eyed mother saw what I did and marched me to the counter and made me give it back to the lady. I was so embarrassed. So I really didn't steal it but I tried to and the deception showed up on the LDT when I answered no. I really was :innocent:
LOL!

wm

wm
 
Shelby1 said:
10:30. The mom checked on her before she (the mom) went to bed.

Ooops I'm sorry, I didn't read it clearly.


Yes, the bday party.
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Sorry Irish. I went back and edited my post. I was speed reading. :innocent:
 
If you want to get a grip on what LE is facing here, consider that only 278 infant abductions have occurred in the last 28 years. Of these, all but 12 were recovered.
Of these almost half of the infants were taken from a hospital facility.
 
elepher50 said:
I have not seen in MSM that LE have confirmed that there was a 2:30am phone call from the house location from one of the missing phones.
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I have not either, but I'm watching to see what comes of that rumor. Apparently the rumor begins with a post left on the FB page for Lisa's case. The commenter stated that a local "activist" had leaked that information along with very detailed reports of text message contents etc.

I can't get a rational clue as to why some "activist" would know this information...so I'm really dubious at this point.

While the timing of the dumpster fire pretty much mandates LE run that trap as hard and as many times as they can, if that rumor is true...then it sure puts a different light on things.
 
Maybe DNA from a teen was to rule out any DNA found near Lisa's bed if this teen was a regular babysitter.
 
I wonder if dad worked at Starbuck's alone that night? Did anyone corroborate his story that he worked until 4 AM other than Debbie? I would imagine LE would ask him the exact route he drove home and see if he was picked up on any surveillance cameras known along that route to verify time. I wonder if that Starbucks is stand alone or in a strip mall setting where parking lot video surveillance may be. No one has said dad's alibi is solid except him. I don't know if either parent has anything to do with Lisa's disappearance, but LE is doing what they have to do to find that out. Statistics don't lie, look at the parents/family first.
 
This is my theory:

Lisa was killed by someone in that house, and the parents staged it to look like an intruder came in and kidnapped her. First, they mention that the window was open when they came home. When LE announces that the window was not the point of entry, it comes out that, oh yeah, they forgot to lock the doors that night too. When the dad mentioned that the cell phones were gone, he says it was so they couldn't call 911. It's like he's trying to plant ideas in the public's heads.
 
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