MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

[curiositycat]

Would like to know if the mom had a baby monitor in the room...I'm guessing not, right? 'Cause, otherwise, c'mon....what mom doesn't wake up to any/every noise in the baby's room, especially if you put the baby to bed sick. And you can't tell me that a baby can be snatched without one floor creek, door creek, a peep, some sort of noise!

Actually I heard a newscaster, local, say on a video I accessed from here, last night..that they did have a baby monitor, it was on and the mom said she heard "nothing."

 

[cluciano63]

I tend to think that LE took and examined all the necessary items from the bedding, etc...I am not going to assume they were that clueless. JMO

 

[Irish_Eyes]

shefner - I'm pretty sure that figure is only counting infants 6 months and under taken in non-family abductions. Even so, the number of children under two taken in non-family abductions within the same time frame has still got to be a statistically small number.

 

[jacy]

I think I'm overdosing on WS - was just answering email and, after my friend made a very good point about this case, I looked for the "thanks" button. Gmail doesn't have one. Good grief.

I think the world would be a better place if there were more 'thanks' buttons around.

 

[mysteriew]

Also, LE stated both parents were present, cooperating and there were no holes in their stories.

Basically all that means is he said he was at work and it checked out, she said she was at home and that checked out. Both showed up to the station and were answering questions.

It doesn't say if their answers were believable or matched any known evidence. It is one of those LE "carefully considered" responses to media questions. It answers the question without really saying anything.

 

[JeannaT]

Would like to know if the mom had a baby monitor in the room...I'm guessing not, right? 'Cause, otherwise, c'mon....what mom doesn't wake up to any/every noise in the baby's room, especially if you put the baby to bed sick. And you can't tell me that a baby can be snatched without one floor creek, door creek, a peep, some sort of noise!

She revealed yesterday that there was a baby monitor on, and it works.

On the other hand, lifting a sleeping baby out of a crib would be virtually silent.

 

[lonetraveler]

I've also been lurking. LE has to start the investigation, supposedly the Mom was the last person to see baby Lisa. The parents honestly need to suck it up & quit complaining. LE is trying to get to the bottom of what happened.

I just logged on and this thread moves like greased lightning. I'm trying to find out if any additional information has been garnered concerning the phone call made around 2:30 am. Whenever any sliver of evidence is discovered, LE needs to re-question in order to investigate the evidence. I agree with you in that the parents need to be available for any questioning for possible new leads.

 

[Renea]

This is my theory:

Lisa was killed by someone in that house, and the parents staged it to look like an intruder came in and kidnapped her. First, they mention that the window was open when they came home. When LE announces that the window was not the point of entry, it comes out that, oh yeah, they forgot to lock the doors that night too. When the dad mentioned that the cell phones were gone, he says it was so they couldn't call 911. It's like he's trying to plant ideas in the public's heads.

I agree!

 

[Jayarre]

Would like to know if the mom had a baby monitor in the room...I'm guessing not, right? 'Cause, otherwise, c'mon....what mom doesn't wake up to any/every noise in the baby's room, especially if you put the baby to bed sick. And you can't tell me that a baby can be snatched without one floor creek, door creek, a peep, some sort of noise!

Last night somewhere on the thread it was reported that mom wanted to let people know that there was a working monitor in the baby's room but that she didn't hear anything.

 

[cluciano63]

I just logged on and this thread moves like greased lightning. I'm trying to find out if any additional information has been garnered concerning the phone call made around 2:30 am. Whenever any sliver of evidence is discovered, LE needs to re-question in order to investigate the evidence. I agree with you in that the parents need to be available for any questioning for possible new leads.

LE would not confirm anything about this alleged call; it was brought out by Fox news and may have been picked up by others media since then, but there are no details on it from LE.

 

[packerdog]

I've thought about the phones - I don't think they were thrown away there because a call was made at 2:30 A.M. MOO

Regarding the landfill, did they bring in cadaver dogs?

Good question. I don't think I have seen any dogs there. In fact I think There is a lack of dogs in this case compared to other cases.

 

[Shelby1]

I just logged on and this thread moves like greased lightning. I'm trying to find out if any additional information has been garnered concerning the phone call made around 2:30 am. Whenever any sliver of evidence is discovered, LE needs to re-question in order to investigate the evidence. I agree with you in that the parents need to be available for any questioning for possible new leads.

I've not seen anything else regarding this except for on FOX news as they reported yesterday. Everything else that I can find is just people discussing it on blogs or message boards or on comments after news articles.

 

[IrishMist]

Last night somewhere on the thread it was reported that mom wanted to let people know that there was a working monitor in the baby's room but that she didn't hear anything.

I read it as being phrased that way, too- "the mom wanted people to know" but in every video I've seen that refers to the monitor, the reporter is just saying that there was one. I've not heard a reporter say anything about the mom wanting people to know it. :waitasec:

 

[mamacita]

a couple quick things:

-i think that maybe *someone* made a call with the phones, and after the call, he/she realized that it could probably be tracked, so that's why he/she said it was stolen... thus making it look like he/she didn't have possession of the phone, so he/she couldn't be the one to make the call. KWIM?

-that coupled with the fact that mom needs to keep revealing facts to the public. to me it seems like she's seriously having a hard time with what has happened, and she's thinking things through 45483729 times to try and cover her booty. for example, the baby monitor thing... why would she think to tell the world that she had a baby monitor in the room and that she heard nothing? it doesn't help her defense, if anything it takes away from it (to me... IMHO).

-the police cooperation thing. what i think is that police decided to tell her that she failed the LDT (whether she did or not, who knows) and they are using the fact that she "failed" the test as "proof" that she has stopped cooperating. it could all be a ploy to get her to break down. i don't know. i don't really know how to explain what i'm trying to say. lol. it seems like they're saying 'OK, you want to lie to us on this LDT? then obviously you've stopped cooperating'. (i hope that clears up what i'm trying to say. )

:twocents::doorhide:

 

[curiositycat]

If it wasn't an accident or one of the parent's "snapping" over the continuous crying of a sick child, lets talk about what would be a motive for taking that baby?

1. Some sort of revenge, for either parent?
2. A pedophile?
3. Selling of the baby to someone who wanted a child?

I mean, the list of "reasons" is not that long. My guess is LE is talking to friends and family. Whatever has been hidden to us, may be a part of the knowledge LE has by now. JMOO

 

[Shelby1]

Re-posting timeline:

Lisa Irwin Timeline

Monday October 3, 2011

Abducted by intruder through bedroom window. Far right window of house.

UPDATE—according to police spokesman window may not be correct.

3620 block of North Lister 64117

CORRECTION TO ABOVE GIVEN BY JEREMY IN PHONE INTERVIEW 10-6-2011

Lisa in bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie in bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room. Point of entry by abductor was unlocked front door, window mentioned earlier was NOT tampered with.

UPDATE 10-6-11 3 cell phones also taken. One does not even work. Also, dad came home to find front door unlocked, most of the lights on and front window open.

Jeremy Irwin, Lisa’s father, told local media that whoever took his daughter also took all three of their cell phones so they couldn’t call anybody, including 911.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/06/3190568/cell-phones-taken-along-with-missing.html#ixzz1a1QJj8XG


~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)

_____________________________________________________________________

​

Other two sons asleep in different bedrooms. (sons are half brothers to Lisa-the 6 year old is Debbie’s and the 8 year old is Jeremy’s from previous relationships.)—Correction. One son—the 6 year old was asleep with the mom and a stray kitten he had found earlier in the day.

Father is electrician that works nights. This night was the first night he EVER worked at night.—Jeremy http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/miss...olice-14688735

Mother is a SAHM--Debbie

Monday October 3, 2011 10:00 p.m. Last seen in crib wearing purple shorts and purple shirt with white kittens on it.

**Possibly seen by Mr. Parscale (a man that lives in the area) according to his wife Lisa around 12:00 a.m. Tuesday wearing only a diaper being carried by a male. Quote from Lisa--“He seen the guy act like he was going to go into a residence,” Parscale said, “but then my husband drove off so we’re thinking that maybe he was just doing that so that my husband would leave.”

**Parscale says her husband saw the man walking on a street perpendicular to North Lister, where Lisa Irwin lives with her parents and brothers.


Tuesday October 4, 2011 3:30 a.m. (first report stated it was 4:00 a.m.) Father returns home from work and discovered baby missing from crib.

UPDATE at 2:00 p.m. October 4 presser Capt. Steve Young speaking—Parents’ story has no holes. Looking into neighbor that possibly saw Lisa being carried by the male. No suspects other than neighbor sighting.

Tuesday October 4, 2011 approx. 7:00 p.m. amber alert cancelled. Lisa is considered a MISSING/ENDANGERED JUVENILE. Per police the alert has served it’s purpose. Police and dogs will search for a while into the night.

*** Tuesday night authorities searched a van and car at the home. There is no word on what police found or were looking for. Officers searching for the child focused on areas near the family's home such as railroad tracks near the north side of the Missouri River and a wooded area behind the home. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-aut...rch-for-missing-baby-20111005,0,6273053.story

Tuesday 9:25 p.m.

Mass exodus of police from the command center. Looks like K-9's are finished searching for the night. Police search will continue in AM
by cliffjudy via twitter 9:25 P

**family stayed with relatives after being questioned until 10:30 p.m.

Wednesday October 5, 2011

9:00 a.m. press conference Capt. Steve Young speaking—basically no new information. Still searching with dogs, however there have been no hits. Parents not ruled out, but also not suspects. Very cooperative.


** KMBC's Jana Corrie: Children who were also inside the home at the time of the disappearance staying with neighbors

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1ZvPzisbv

**conflicting reports…unless the Grandparents are being referred to as “neighbors”


NBC Action News reporter Sloane Heller reports Lisa’s grandparents are watching the couple’s other children and have not been able to reach them since earlier Tuesday.

Read more: http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_missouri/northland/police-ruling-nothing-out-in-search-for-lisa-irwin#ixzz1ZvXO4Yxz


Next news conference sometime this afternoon.

2:00 news conference—Jeremy spoke with Deborah (Bradley?) by his side. Begged for baby to be dropped off somewhere safe. The brothers are waiting to see their sister. Declined to take questions.

Again, Capt. Has no leads, not ruling out anything. 300 knocks and searches. 46 tips. No ransom note. Family is free to go where they would like. Family does not want to be at house.

**Alleged sighting of Lisa with a middle aged white male and female at a Love’s gas station in St. Joseph, MO I-29 and US HWY 169. Driving older model SUV. Article came out around 5:15 p.m. Surveillance video has been turned over to LE. Police say it doesn’t seem to be a major lead.


Thursday October 6, 2011


**Jeremy and Debbie provided LE with a list of 9 names of people that could be possible suspects.

**Per Debbie regarding cell phones and possible other missing items:

~one of the cell phones did not work.. all three were on the counter and she was in the midst of reprogramming them/putting numbers into them

~phones were gone

~she did not notice if anything else was taken.. all she cares about is that the baby was gone.

~she grabbed the boys and went out into the yard and flagged down LE when they pulled into the yard

~she said nothing else appeared to be missing but she does not know

(thank you NBM)




http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old

** police detectives are meeting early this morning to talk about where to search next.

**per Debbie, “Lisa is very sweet and will go to almost anybody.”

**per Jeremy, window was not tampered with, so perp (s) must have come in through unlocked front door.

**Lisa went to bed at 7:30 p.m. Debbie went to bed at 10:30 after checking on Lisa. 5 year old son slept with Debbie in parents room.

***Debbie and Jeremy have a heated discussion with LE before speeding off in police car to command center to find out about possible new lead. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-lis...scussion-with-police-20111006,0,5671503.story

**the list of suspects provided by the parents is now up to 12.

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a391r9l4


Originally Posted by BeanE [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7196439#post7196439"]

[/ame]--thank you BeanE
Capt. Young: "There is no doubt they informed us that they no longer wish to cooperate with the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:05 PM

Capt. Young: "We have no plans to close the command center yet, but it will close at some point."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:04 PM

Capt. Young: "I don't have to illustrate how their lack of cooperation hurts the investigation."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "I cannot get into the details of the investigation."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:03 PM

Capt. Young: "the mother and father no longer want to cooperate with detectives."by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspect. If we had enough to charge anyone with, we'd probably be pursuing charges."
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "We don't have any suspects. From an investigative standpoint we've enjoyed their cooperation"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young": The parents have intimate information as to what's been going on...our door is open and it doesn't help that they are no longer cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:02 PM

Capt. Young: "They've always been free and cooperative up until this point, but they've decided to stop cooperating"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM

Capt. Steve Young: Mother and father of baby Lisa Irwin have stopped cooperating with police
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 8:01 PM


http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_...#ixzz1a39rwETg


"This evening we will be shutting down the command post. We believe we have done all we can regarding geographic searches and will continue tracking leads as we get them or develop additional information," police Officer Darin Snapp said in a news release.

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3JybPqG


Family statement: We saw the press conference at 7 PM, and we want you to know we have never stopped cooperating with police.
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com... 9:11 PM

Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1a3m5ocP3


Friday October 7, 2011

(thank you BeanE for gathering these)
#LisaIrwin's mom:We want to thank everybody who has helped us so far.
1 minute ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we are not angry, we just want our daughter home, that's all we care about.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: we appreciate everything the police dept. has done, we appreciate everything everybody has done.
2 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin mom: we don't know, which is why we need everybody to continue to look for her...because we want her home, we can't do this alone
21 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "he's a good father and he's good to me and he loves her and everybody loves her, but no, there's no way." (about father)
38 seconds ago

#LisaIrwin's dad: hasn't taken polygraph but "if that's what it takes..."
3 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: "what do you say when someone tells you that and you know you didn't do anything."
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: volunteered to take polygraph, told failed. Says that's not possible.
4 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's mom: We don't care what anybody thinks, we don't care what they think, our concern is to find Lisa, our Lisa.
5 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

#LisaIrwin's Mom: don't have hard feelings, not mad, this is what they (police) have to do.
5 minutes ago

#LisaIrwin's Mom: police really nice yesterday, not like that the first time.
6 minutes ago


**Debbie failed LDT. Jeremy has offered, but LE said it’s not necessary.


Floor plan of Debbie and Jeremy’s home (thank you Carriebean)


http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=19070&d=1317999122

**a neighbor in the area also had her dog come up missing the same night. (maybe related, maybe not)

http://ap.onlineathens.com/pstories/20111007/896530303.shtml
**FBI cleared all the people that Jeremy and Debbie mentioned as possible suspects.


PER FOX NEWS REPORT AT 12:00 P.M.
***Call made from Irwin home at 2:30 a.m.

**Debbie failed the LDT “MISERABLY”

** Jeremy at work constructing a new Starbucks (company? All Current Electric)

**Per the great grandfather (see the end of the following video at the 1:16 mark)


The GGFather then says "they are supposed to...with their lawyer offer some kind of statement to the press at a later time...(-00:19)

Then the reporter then says "...as you just heard, the couple has now hired a lawyer .....

http://www.fox4kc.com/videobeta/1276...er-Cooperating

Thank you to Hazel for finding this!

***ANONYMOUS TIP—LE searching Shawnee Kansas landfill.


http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...-search-tied-to-Lisa-Irwin-case#ixzz1a7YeLYOn


**FBI: This is the second time they've searched the JOCO landfill. The first was Tuesday - hours after #LisaIrwin was reported missing.
10 minutes ago


**Searching landfill----possible connection to a dumpster fire at 4897 NE 37 st at 2:27 a.m. Tuesday, October 4. Dumpster less than ½ mile from Irwin home. Trash from fire been examined twice. http://www.fox4kc.com/news/wdaf-pol...-search-of-baby-lisa-20111007,0,5538504.story


#LisaIrwin update: FBI not saying what, if anything, found at landfill.

**searching using metal detectors behind the Irwin house.

** possible sighting in California
http://www.kmbc.com/r/29420106/detail.html


Thanks to BeanE:

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin prayer vigil beginning now. http://img.ly/9bGB
12 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
I also asked #LisaIrwin's aunt if she or family members were getting any sleep. She said, "Not a wink."
38 minutes ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Walking around P&L District with #LisaIrwin's aunt as she passes out fliers with Lisa's picture.
1 hour ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Talked briefly off camera with #LisaIrwin's aunt last night. Asked how her brother (Lisa's dad) was holding up. "He's a wreck."
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
About to head out to 6pm missing person flyer hanging & 9pm prayer vigil for #LisaIrwin. Family plans to attend both.
4 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
#LisaIrwin RT @itsvann @CliffJudy Prayer vigil location has changed to Penguin Park off of Vivion Rd @ 9pm
5 hours ago

LindsayShively Lindsay Shively
Just watched a 'nat'l media crew' tape a missing poster to a tree, shoot it then take it down. Not ok. Not journalism.
9 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
Family statement denied what police are saying, brought focus back to #LisaIrwin, and even thanked PD. Another statement planned tomorrow.
20 hours ago

CliffJudy Cliff Judy
What does latest in #LisaIrwin case mean? PD strategy: pressure parents. At very least, KCPD thinks parents not as forthcoming as possible.
20 hours ago


Cliff Judy
@CliffJudy Kansas City
Reporter for KMBC 9 in Kansas City.
http://twitter.com/#!/CliffJudy


Saturday October 8, 2011

Re-cap—everyone cleared except for Debbie

http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-07/news/30255015_1_fbi-agents-kansas-city-police-landfill/2

**Possible new lead. Teenage neighbor being questioned. Also, DNA taken from teen. Neighbor was home the day Lisa disappeared and also knew the code to get into the garage.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-baby-lisa-teen-questioned-police-california-tip/story?id=14695496

 

[BeanE]

Another early article - published Tue, updated Wed, with LE (Young) saying the 2 boys were in a separate bedroom.

Also, first time I see that LE states window probably not point of entry.

Two young brothers also were at home in a separate bedroom, Young said, but were unharmed.

"Originally there was a window on the front of the house that appeared to be tampered with, that's something they were looking at, but we're not really sure if that's the entry point or not," Young said. "That's just a detail. The main point is there is a 10-month-old who isn't where she belongs and we're trying to find that child."

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/15613807/amber-alert-issued-for-missing-kansas-city-baby

On the 2 boys being in a separate bedroom, later Deb says one boy was in her bed with her.

 

[raeann]

There are two pointed questions that he gave an answer to - many questions he stated he did not know the answer to, but these 2 questions were answered with a no:

1. Was anything else missing from the house. NO, and he follows up with, but if there were I'm not sure I could tell you. But his answer is no at that time.

2. He is later asked if there were indications that an intruder had been in the home. He specifically answers NO, other than the window appearing to be tampered with.

I will note that we do know when the 911 call came in, now that I review the press conference, the call came in right around 4. But what was not known at that time was at what time the father got home from work. Young was asked if they knew, because at that time media had heard that the father arrived at 4, and Young said that that "might be", but he didn't have exact times when people came and went.

I understand that Capt. Young wouldn't know everything that was occurring in the investigation, but at the same time, cell phones being missing from the home is not a trivial finding in this case. AND, at that point, would be their number one chance to try to track down the baby. So, if we were talking about keys being gone, that's another issue. When we're talking about 3 cell phones any of which could be vital tools in tracking the abductor and finding the baby...that's a whole nother ball of wax. That Steve Young didn't know that information yet, when asked in two different ways, is disturbing.

To me....it just seemed clear that LE did NOT WANT the info on the cell phones being made public. If you go back through the sequence of events....this whole rift between the parents and LE happened within hours or perhaps even minutes of the parents media interviews where they first talked openly about the phones. If LE did not like them putting out that info then, it seems clear that they would have been purposely not releasing that info themselves on the first day.

i.e. Within hours we have this sequence.... Media interview mentioning phones.....next came "animated" discussion with LE at scene.....next parents drive off in a rush......next parents said to have asked to leave LE interview.....then LE rushed into media conference stating parents stopped cooperating.

jmo

 

[peeples]

She revealed yesterday that there was a baby monitor on, and it works.

On the other hand, lifting a sleeping baby out of a crib would be virtually silent.

Given my experience with my kids, it's not THAT quiet, especially because Lisa is a big baby, and it's reported she slept with a blanket and several stuffed animals. Our baby monitors picked up all my children's breathing, and the slightest rustling could be heard as well and there would be some rustling with as big as lisa is and the stuff in the crib, even if it was just her heels scraping against th3e crib sheet as the person got a good grip on her, you'd have to be super human to be able to pick a baby that big straight into the air and not even the sound of your hands slipping between the baby and the sheets being heard
MOO-maybe i just had very sensitive monitors

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Today show covered Lisa's case this am. Here's the video.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44827306#44827306

wm

ETA vid shows the investigators at the neighbors house 2 doors down. It's at appox 1:55 mark