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Thread: What's in this cellar room photo?

  1. #1
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    What's in this cellar room photo?

    We're having a discussion at FFJ about this cellar photo I happened upon yesterday. It appears that there might be a doll in the photo, but it's hard to say. It could just be a lump of Christmas decorations or something else.

    The photo is from one of the documentaries done about this case. This group of photos came from a screen capture by ACR or Why Nut--can't remember which as they both did some.

    So we have a blurred, distant photo among others, which makes it worse when enlarged. But I've played around with it to give a better idea of what I'm looking at.

    By the way, the photo in the upper right corner is of JonBenet still in the home, before her body was taken away, so it's not a doll.

    Here's the FFJ thread: http://www.forumsforjustice.org/foru...?t=9958&page=5

    Here are the images:



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    More on photo

    Cherokee at FFJ made this to clarify what part of the photo is in question:



    And I made these for a better idea of what I'm looking at:



    I wonder if the rectagular shape could be a box with tissue paper causing the "ripples" in the image?



    I have no idea what this actually is, but with Tricia's recent disclosure of what her source told her about one or more dolls being in that room with JonBenet, I was surprised when this popped out at me. I hope someone who does know will clarify.

    In the meantime, any ideas?
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  5. #3
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    Great catch! To me the object that you have outlined looks like a Barbie type doll laying on something. Looks to me like the head and an arm is showing in a pinkish colored outfit.
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    I have no stinkin idea!


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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
    Cherokee at FFJ made this to clarify what part of the photo is in question:



    And I made these for a better idea of what I'm looking at:



    I wonder if the rectagular shape could be a box with tissue paper causing the "ripples" in the image?



    I have no idea what this actually is, but with Tricia's recent disclosure of what her source told her about one or more dolls being in that room with JonBenet, I was surprised when this popped out at me. I hope someone who does know will clarify.

    In the meantime, any ideas?

    ty for posting the photos.

    I wonder, kk, where are all the dolls, can't see many in the photos of JBR bedroom.

    JBR quiz.http://www.allthetests.com/quiz22/qu...tid=1175577704
    answers
    http://www.allthetests.com/quiz22/qu...z/0/0/0/0/true

    Question 6
    What did Jonbenet get for Xhristmas in 1996?
    Shiny new pink bike.

    Question 19
    What was the main gift that Jonbenet received on her sixth birthday?
    An American Girl Samntha doll

    Dolls Question 85
    What was the name of
    onbenets display at a 4h fair in 1995?
    "My Collection"
    Question 52
    What year did jonbenet receive her sister-sock stuffed cat?
    1994


    http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-pam-removed.htm
    Page 56:
    "The day before, one of Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil printing, several American Girl dolls, a portfilio of JonBenet's pageant photographs, a pageant medal with a blue ribbon, graduation photos of the older children, and a Bible from John Ramsey's desk, but she had missed JonBenet's stuffed cat, which Patsy had wanted retrieved."

    Most of the items Patsy wanted were in a curio cabinet of keepsakes
    in our bedroom. Treasures from over the years filled the cabinet:
    Our children's first shoes, a christening gown Patsy had made for
    both of the children, baby teeth, JonBenet's baby locks,
    Patsy's baby shoes, and my baby rattle.
    DOI (HB) Page 11:
    Patsy particularly wanted Pam to get the
    My Twinn doll from under the Christmas tree and the pictures of
    the kids she kept on the sink in her bathroom."

    Page 58:
    "They carried along Sister Socks, a gray-and-white stuffed animal that had been
    left behind during Pam Paugh's sweep through the house. Sister Socks was retrieved
    for them by Detective Arndt."

    ST (HB) Page 52:
    Everett kept only a general inventory of what was removed, and even that abbreviated listing was astonishing. Stuffed animals, tiaras, three dresses for JonBenet, pageant photo portfolios, toys and clothes for Burke, John Ramsey's Daytime, the desk Bible, and clothing. For Patsy, there were black pants, dress suits, boots, and the contents of the curio cabinet. Bills, credit cards, a black cashmere trench coat, jewelry that included her grandmother's ring and an emerald necklace, bathrobes, a cell phone, personal papers, bank records, Christmas stockings, her Nordstrom's credit card, and even their passports. The patrol car was loaded with zipped bags, boxes, sacks, and luggage, the true contents unknown."




    Where are all the dolls? JBRs 'collection', ..... in the crime scene photos.

    http://crimeshots.com/CrimeScene2.html

    There's the larger baby doll and mysterious bear on the second bed,
    the two ethnic dolls and the white witch doll in the photo entitled. 'another shot of the suitcase by the window'.

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  11. #6
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    A 'Holiday Barbie'?
    http://www.ioffer.com/offer_transactions/show/538824
    I see a small fleshy/pink doll in a "big" poofy faux velvet holiday-ish type dress and Barbie came to mind.Pics at link show what I mean(they come in metallic boxes & the 'box' I think I see could fit with that)
    I suppose Barbie may have been a bit down market for Patsy's tastes but maybe it purchased by someone else?
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

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  13. #7
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    kk, Cherokees inhanced photo, it does look like it could be a doll.
    reading at ffj. it sure could be the item missing , redacted? off the evidence list.

    http://www.acandyrose.com/12261996warrant09.gif


    Listening to http://www.blogtalkradio.com/levipage TG on LHP show re BR reinterview and looking forward to mention of the dolls and perhaps Cks discovery.


    ty kk: Crime Scene Inventory: http://www.acandyrose.com/crimescene-inventory.htm
    Last edited by Tadpole12; 10-06-2010 at 11:18 PM.

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  15. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
    Cherokee at FFJ made this to clarify what part of the photo is in question:



    And I made these for a better idea of what I'm looking at:



    I wonder if the rectagular shape could be a box with tissue paper causing the "ripples" in the image?



    I have no idea what this actually is, but with Tricia's recent disclosure of what her source told her about one or more dolls being in that room with JonBenet, I was surprised when this popped out at me. I hope someone who does know will clarify.

    In the meantime, any ideas?
    KK. maybe you can invert the colors, when photo image pasted to paint?
    or maybe b&w will help with image?

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  17. #9
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    It looks like a doll to me, but not a Barbie doll.

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  19. #10
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    Thanks so much for your ideas and links. I'll look at them more closely tomorrow. Great info. You've got me to thinking: like where did those dolls live before that night in the house? Why aren't more in photos? Have we ever seen a photo of the My Twinn doll? I can't remember seeing hers specifically. And where did they all go? Into boxes for the Ramseys, I guess.

    Those Barbie dolls are about the right size, if that is a doll. Good find.

    Someone needs to drag Pinker over here from Topix. She's the doll expert in this case, and she's spent years steadfastly pointing to the importance of the dolls. I think she's got some fascinating ideas and info, but like most theories, proving it is...so far a goal not achieved, for all of us with any theory.

    But I'd bet money she knows every doll in every crime scene photo ever aired or posted.
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  21. #11
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    A face-down doll of some kind laying on a blanket? I dunno thats my best guess. Weird.

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  23. #12
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    Cherokee's Photo of the Pineapple

    OFF TOPIC

    KK, in the photo of the pineapple above there is something that just jumped out at me and I'm sure if it's already been discussed, you are the person who would know.
    The bowl seems to have quite a bit of pineapple still in it after JonBenet had eaten enough to show up at autopsy. I'm thinking if Patsy had fixed this late night snack for her, would she really have put that much pineapple in the bowl? As a mother, I never would have fed my daughter that much fruit at bedtime. To me, it looks like either Burke or JonBenet filled the bowl.
    Maybe in all the frenzy that night, the Ramsey's really did not know that the kids had fixed themselves a snack after they were supposedly in bed and that's why they didn't have an explanation for it or whatever happened that night started right here in the kitchen and Patsy simply didn't realize how important this evidence would end up being. Sorry to go off topic, I just needed to ask these questions while they were fresh in my mind.
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  25. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
    Thanks so much for your ideas and links. I'll look at them more closely tomorrow. Great info. You've got me to thinking: like where did those dolls live before that night in the house? Why aren't more in photos? Have we ever seen a photo of the My Twinn doll? I can't remember seeing hers specifically. And where did they all go? Into boxes for the Ramseys, I guess.

    Those Barbie dolls are about the right size, if that is a doll. Good find.

    Someone needs to drag Pinker over here from Topix. She's the doll expert in this case, and she's spent years steadfastly pointing to the importance of the dolls. I think she's got some fascinating ideas and info, but like most theories, proving it is...so far a goal not achieved, for all of us with any theory.

    But I'd bet money she knows every doll in every crime scene photo ever aired or posted.
    Is Pinker the poster with all the good/interesting doll theories(i.e the string around the older american girl doll necks etc?)
    I remember years ago there being some fascinating stuff out there.....

    You do have me wondering now where were JBR's dolls?Not in her room it seems.
    Do we know if Patsy had a "doll room" for JBR? I know thats common for doll collectors.
    I get the feeling JBR's dolls were a 'look but don't touch' type of collection & it appears there was a good amount...where wwere they kept??

    It has always bothered me the importance of PP getting some of the dolls(or all...who knows)out of the house ASAP.
    And where is/was the My Twinn?
    Wasn't it said that Patsy kept it in a chair in GA or was that a different doll?
    So many years & so many theories/insights & info......I'm trying to keep it all straight.

    O/T but I am praying so hard that maybe,just maybe there will finally be the break we have all waited for!We have all wondered for years if/when will Burke talk.....I hope he is!
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

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  27. #14
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    Looks like one of those collectible dolls with a china face and Victoria dress to me. Anyone know which documentary this photo came from? Perhaps the documentary is online somewhere.

    Unless I have included a link, it is my opinion and only my opinion that I am expressing.

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  29. #15
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    could it be a fairy for the top of a christmas tree and the white thing be the wings ?

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  31. #16
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    Sorry for off topic but I was always wondering what's in these autopsy photos the R's team have here on the table(stuff we didn't see before) .Maybe you can figure it out,I can't and if I enlarge it ,it becomes blurry.



    Any thoughts?

    The link to the video:

    http://cnettv.cnet.com/jonbenet-case...-50041286.html
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  33. #17
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    Hey Madeleine! Two of the photos look like side views of JonBenet's face, to me anyway and one looks like a photo of a woman that I have never seen before. The two I believe are JB are the one on the left and the one on the right. The one on the bottom would be the strange lady. No clue about the top photo.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

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    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  35. #18
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    Madeleine, I think the photo on the bottom of the group is JB from the right side of her profile, possibly with her hair pulled back for the photo? I watched the report [by moron Erin Moriority, Ramsey shill in Tracey's pocket] and you can "zoom in" with a freeze frame and also use the large screen and it looks like a side shot to me...?

    By that point, Team Ramsey public relations shill Tracey was tossing photos of the autopsy around to any significant reporter who would help him promote his agenda--save the precious Ramseys and make him famous, too. A reporter wrote about Tracey showing more shocking autopsy photos than those we've seen aired, in an interview of Tracey about the case. I will never understand why the Ramseys didn't go ballistic over Smit and Tracey doing this, putting those out to the public for nothing but attention and sensationalism. But they didn't mind one little bit, I guess, because Smit and Tracey were their best shills, so anything they wanted to do, fine.

    This case is at its core about the exploitation of JonBenet, after all. Poor child was being exploited and abused in life for the gratification of others, so no problemo for the Ramseys when that continued in death.

    But I digress....

    Thanks for the link.
    Last edited by KoldKase; 10-07-2010 at 05:10 PM.
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  37. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21merc7 View Post
    Looks like one of those collectible dolls with a china face and Victoria dress to me. Anyone know which documentary this photo came from? Perhaps the documentary is online somewhere.
    If that's a gown, I agree. It looks very fancy dress doll, could be from that era.

    I think this was from the later documentaries, maybe the one by Larry Schiller which aired the night Patsy was buried? I'll see if I can find out.
    Last edited by KoldKase; 10-07-2010 at 05:20 PM.
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  39. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by slug View Post
    could it be a fairy for the top of a christmas tree and the white thing be the wings ?
    It makes me think of the Christmas tree toppers sold at box stores, an angel or some such, with that tinsel or feathery trim?
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  41. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by VespaElf View Post
    Is Pinker the poster with all the good/interesting doll theories(i.e the string around the older american girl doll necks etc?)
    I remember years ago there being some fascinating stuff out there.....

    You do have me wondering now where were JBR's dolls?Not in her room it seems.
    Do we know if Patsy had a "doll room" for JBR? I know thats common for doll collectors.
    I get the feeling JBR's dolls were a 'look but don't touch' type of collection & it appears there was a good amount...where wwere they kept??

    It has always bothered me the importance of PP getting some of the dolls(or all...who knows)out of the house ASAP.
    And where is/was the My Twinn?
    Wasn't it said that Patsy kept it in a chair in GA or was that a different doll?
    So many years & so many theories/insights & info......I'm trying to keep it all straight.

    O/T but I am praying so hard that maybe,just maybe there will finally be the break we have all waited for!We have all wondered for years if/when will Burke talk.....I hope he is!
    Yes, that's Pinker. There's a thread at the topix.com JonBenet Ramsey forum that's been bumped about her doll research.

    Good questions. JB's pageant dresses were kept in a guest room that her half-sisters used. Maybe they were kept in there?

    Never heard about Patsy keeping the My Twinn in a chair.

    If you can keep it all straight, you're a better man/woman than me.

    We can hope.
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  43. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    OFF TOPIC

    KK, in the photo of the pineapple above there is something that just jumped out at me and I'm sure if it's already been discussed, you are the person who would know.
    The bowl seems to have quite a bit of pineapple still in it after JonBenet had eaten enough to show up at autopsy. I'm thinking if Patsy had fixed this late night snack for her, would she really have put that much pineapple in the bowl? As a mother, I never would have fed my daughter that much fruit at bedtime. To me, it looks like either Burke or JonBenet filled the bowl.
    Maybe in all the frenzy that night, the Ramsey's really did not know that the kids had fixed themselves a snack after they were supposedly in bed and that's why they didn't have an explanation for it or whatever happened that night started right here in the kitchen and Patsy simply didn't realize how important this evidence would end up being. Sorry to go off topic, I just needed to ask these questions while they were fresh in my mind.
    Oh, that slippery pineapple in the bowl....

    There is a photo that actually looks like there is milk in the bowl, as well. But it's argued that it is simply milky residue from the pineapple spoiling because it wasn' t noticed for a while by LE.

    The pineapple was in that bowl on the table during the party on the 23rd of Dec., where the children were decorating gingerbread houses. Bowls with lots of stuff in them to do that were on the table, as well. I would think someone put it in the fridge and then someone else took it back out at some point. Since Burke's and Patsy's fingerprints were on the bowl, we can only speculate because they can't be dated.

    But that is the same pineapple that JonBenet ate shortly before she died, according to Thomas, who said it matched down to the rhine.

    There's a good thread on this at FFJ, with photos screen captured of these items from that documentary. I'll see if I can find it for you.
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  45. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
    Oh, that slippery pineapple in the bowl....

    There is a photo that actually looks like there is milk in the bowl, as well. But it's argued that it is simply milky residue from the pineapple spoiling because it wasn' t noticed for a while by LE.

    The pineapple was in that bowl on the table during the party on the 23rd of Dec., where the children were decorating gingerbread houses. Bowls with lots of stuff in them to do that were on the table, as well. I would think someone put it in the fridge and then someone else took it back out at some point. Since Burke's and Patsy's fingerprints were on the bowl, we can only speculate because they can't be dated.

    But that is the same pineapple that JonBenet ate shortly before she died, according to Thomas, who said it matched down to the rhine.

    There's a good thread on this at FFJ, with photos screen captured of these items from that documentary. I'll see if I can find it for you.
    Thanks, KK. That answers my question. Whoever gave her the pineapple just took the bowl from the fridge. That could have been any one at home that night, including JB herself. But that tea glass just spells Burke to me. I tend to agree with Patsy that a glass with a teabag is not normally what one would do, at least not here in the South. We tend to make iced tea by the gallon and not the glass. I guess it just looks like something my 9 year old grandson would do if he wanted a glass of tea and there was none in the fridge. Patsy may have done the same thing though, who knows.
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  47. #24
    Looks like a doll...not barbie, with one arm broken off and touching the other arm.

    Edited to add that the broken arm is touching the right leg of the doll.
    Last edited by Toltec; 10-07-2010 at 06:39 PM.
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  49. #25
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    Looks like a broken picture frame...you can see the head and shoulders of a female in the picture. As for the rough edge, it could be burned. Like someone was burning it and got caught type of thing. JMO IMO
    This is all my opinion, which is subject to change with more information, if the wind changes direction, or if I wake up in a different mood...

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