Seems likely to me that Hannah was allowed inside Tempo briefly, though perhaps not to drink. Maybe a doorperson agreed to let her sneak in "just to use the ladies' room" or something, and regrets that decision now that their job & restaurant's liquor license could be on the line.... Doorpeople often use discretion in who they'll allow in or not, and a friendly, pretty girl is almost always welcome. Even though she was tipsy, Hannah appears well-bred and would have fit into the club w/o being obviously underage. (Height tends to give the impression of someone being older than they are.) She was walking around for quite a while that night, and common sense tells me that she would have needed to use a restroom after consuming so much alcohol.
I also think that she may have been roofied by JLM and that's why she was noticeably incapacitated upon leaving the area. JLM was only inside the bar for a very short time (15 min.), so he likely took the 2 drinks (beers?) outside.
Hannah seemed a bit frantic by the time JLM caught up to her; he could have easily gained her trust by saying, "Hey, are you okay? You look lost... Are you at UVA? I work in the OR at UVA medical, etc.... I can give you ride if you want..." An innocent wouldn't necessarily see through this kind of game until it's too late. (I learned that lesson the hard way myself.)
All jmo...
I just can't understand why most posters think that HG had to be drunk or tricked to be in the company of JLM. She was with him for a considerable time out in public. She could have left or asked others for help. I have every reason to believed she stayed with him because she wanted to. I also think she left with him & wherever they went was of her own free will. I have seen nothing to make me think otherwise. Again, if you disagree, what do you see him doing that's makes you think she was being forced to be with him?
I remember having some weird dreams on Ambien, but nothing too crazy. I was out like a light and woke up feeling pretty refreshed in the morning. It was prescribed to me while I was adjusting to a new antidepressant and having trouble sleeping.
I have a pretty high tolerance for drugs though. Alcohol is another story. An ex-boyfriend of mine took Rohypnol in college once for fun, and he ran around in a playground, swinging and having fun... but the next day he barely remembered any of it; his roommates had to tell him everything that went on.
I'm in my early 40s now, but I was a moderate partier in my college days, and am still a regular pot smoker, FWIW. I was street-smart, but still got myself into some stupid situations that could have easily gone bad, and a couple in my teen years that did go kind of bad -- but I learned from them and moved on. Suffice it to say I've been around, and after reading this article: http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/
I'll just say that LJ is a real predator. When you're a woman who knows what's up, you recognize them instantly. Had I been drunk, I'd have had no chance against someone like him, even in public, street-smart or not. That's what's truly frightening. Stone cold sober, yeah, I'd tell him to eff off and still be a little scared because of his sheer size and I'm sure he didn't come across as stable, especially while he was drinking. Hannah was like fresh meat to a tiger as far as he was concerned. These kinds of guys can SMELL any kind of weakness, from how many drinks you have, to low self-esteem, to being able to tell you're angry at a boyfriend -- you name it. And you know what's really scary? I don't think mister WG - our witness who was also following her on video - was any different. LJ was simply better at it and swooped in first.
I remember having some weird dreams on Ambien, but nothing too crazy. I was out like a light and woke up feeling pretty refreshed in the morning. It was prescribed to me while I was adjusting to a new antidepressant and having trouble sleeping.
I have a pretty high tolerance for drugs though. Alcohol is another story. An ex-boyfriend of mine took Rohypnol in college once for fun, and he ran around in a playground, swinging and having fun... but the next day he barely remembered any of it; his roommates had to tell him everything that went on.
I'm in my early 40s now, but I was a moderate partier in my college days, and am still a regular pot smoker, FWIW. I was street-smart, but still got myself into some stupid situations that could have easily gone bad, and a couple in my teen years that did go kind of bad -- but I learned from them and moved on. Suffice it to say I've been around, and after reading this article: http://insidecville.com/blog/ljs-timeline/
I'll just say that LJ is a real predator. When you're a woman who knows what's up, you recognize them instantly. Had I been drunk, I'd have had no chance against someone like him, even in public, street-smart or not. That's what's truly frightening. Stone cold sober, yeah, I'd tell him to eff off and still be a little scared because of his sheer size and I'm sure he didn't come across as stable, especially while he was drinking. Hannah was like fresh meat to a tiger as far as he was concerned. These kinds of guys can SMELL any kind of weakness, from how many drinks you have, to low self-esteem, to being able to tell you're angry at a boyfriend -- you name it. And you know what's really scary? I don't think mister WG - our witness who was also following her on video - was any different. LJ was simply better at it and swooped in first.
I completely agree, Psych. Hannah never stood a chance.
And yes, there is no legal taking of drinks outside, unless there is a patio. But if its a Friday night on the Mall in a busy bar, something like that could easily go unnoticed. JM could have smuggled the drinks out and brought them to his car for her. The Mall does not typically have UVa students on it - its a very separate culture w the students staying on The Corner, and older residents down at the Mall.
That is another reason I think this was not premeditated, but a crime of opportunity. If your intentions were to troll for a 18 or 19 year old, you wouldn't do it on the Mall.
I also think he may have texted his rommates, saying something like "Are you guys home? Bringing home a drunk girl, planning on making some noise." Vomit having to type that. But having been a college.student who dated boys with roommates, I know they sometimes check in to get the green light for an empty apt.
Maybe the LE found a text like that on his phone or a roomies phone.
Could be, just maybe, he was thinking "I'm gonna hit that tonight". Much more sense than "I'm gonna kill her tonight". He was possibly proud of his score and brought her in because he felt great that a gorgeous young coed was having drinks with him. Then when he did/didn't drug her to insure "hitting it" (my guess he's done THAT before) and left I think she either rebuffed his advances, or maybe overdosed after he was done taking advantage. This is only my opinion, but one that makes most sense to me. Bring Hannah Home[emoji17]For now, I agree that it was a crime of opportunity. The one thing I can't figure out though is why JM would take HG into a bar filled with people, if he was intending something nefarious. And I have to believe that JM and HG as a couple would stand out like a sore thumb in a place like Tempo.
Hi Everybody! My apologies if this has been discussed previously, I've read and read and don't see it. Long time lurker, btw. I've had a few handles since Trenton Duckett went missing, don't post much. Anyway, Hannah was last seen with JLM at Tempo at 1:45 on 9/13. Do we know when the next time JLM was seen? What was he doing Saturday? Thanks in advance.
(Modsnip)
I can't speak for others on whether or not they assume she was forced to be with JM. Personally, I'm NOT saying that she was "forced" to stay with JM at Tempo. What I am saying is that she was noted to be drunk and therefore not making sound judgements. And I completely disagree with your assessment that she spent a "considerable amount of time" with JM in public. At the outset, she was in public within his company from 1:08 am to 1:45 am (appx), That's less than 40 mins and not a "considerable amount of time".
For all we know, he could have offered her a ride home and she accepted. She was intoxicated and not making sound judgements. It is NEVER sound judgement to get into the vehicle of someone you've known for 40 mins and who has been drinking. That's not a knock on JM. He could have been Chris Helmsworth and it still wouldn't have been sound judgement. It becomes an issue of force when JM is the last person to see her and she disappears from the planet, he refuses to answer questions and he goes on the run to Texas. Not a lot of room for holes in that logic.
MOO.
For now, I agree that it was a crime of opportunity. The one thing I can't figure out though is why JM would take HG into a bar filled with people, if he was intending something nefarious. And I have to believe that JM and HG as a couple would stand out like a sore thumb in a place like Tempo.
Could be, just maybe, he was thinking "I'm gonna hit that tonight". Much more sense than "I'm gonna kill her tonight". He was possibly proud of his score and brought her in because he felt great that a gorgeous young coed was having drinks with him. Then when he did/didn't drug her to insure "hitting it" (my guess he's done THAT before) and left I think she either rebuffed his advances, or maybe overdosed after he was done taking advantage. This is only my opinion, but one that makes most sense to me. Bring Hannah Home[emoji17]
Bingo.
I think HG is probably the type of person who is friendly to everyone and I'm assuming JM said he could give her a ride. It's obvious she did not go with him because she wanted to have sex with him. In her mind it had nothing to do with hooking up. If it did she would be alive.
Bingo.
I think HG is probably the type of person who is friendly to everyone and I'm assuming JM said he could give her a ride. It's obvious she did not go with him because she wanted to have sex with him. In her mind it had nothing to do with hooking up. If it did she would be alive.
I think if we are going to conclude JMs involvement, then she would have had to have gotten into his car.Do we all think she got in his car? Judging by LE, it doesn't seem they were able to see her in the car on surveillance. If JM did drug her, he may have been able to force her into his trunk without drawing a lot of attention.
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