GUILTY WY - Park Co., Male UP11992, decapitated, Jan'14 - Juan Guerra Torres

FigTree said:

Just some thoughts...
Lander Pioneer Days Rodeo - Worlds oldest paid rodeo in the world July 3-4
Cody Night Rodeo - Performances are nightly at 8 p.m. at Stampede Park on Yellowstone Highway, June 1 through August 31.
Sheridan WYO Rodeo - July 10-July 13, 2013
Cheyenne Frontier Days Rodeo . 2014 Dates: Friday, July 18 through Sunday, July 27.

Most of the big Rodeos (Wyoming) seem to be held mid year - though Im sure there must be others during off season.

I wondered if possibly the UID's skin was weathered from the sun (working outdoors) or his remaining hand showed mannual work. He was fit - so possibly he was Ranch working - or he just worked out.

The scar on his back is interesting though - NAMUS didnt say what type of operation it was from. Would help to know what type of injury/cause it was.

I was wondering why the UID's hand was missing (after death by shooting) - would he have had a tattoo on his hand possibly? Or a disfigurement - like a finger missing?

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A tattoo would be most likely. It can't be fingerprints or they would have taken both hands.

They do have some winter rodeo. I know of one up in Kalispell and another in Glacier County in Montana, a big one in Lafayette LA, and a number of events associated with winter fairs and so forth. The CPRA championship is usually in October and the season resumes in February, so it might well have been a guy filling in his down time by working an agricultural job.

The boots tend to indicate farm labor rather than rodeo, which would require cowboy boots. But if he was working an interim job, he might have changed footgear.

Another possibility is an out of state hunter who was killed by a member of his party.

carbuff said:

A tattoo would be most likely. It can't be fingerprints or they would have taken both hands.

They do have some winter rodeo. I know of one up in Kalispell and another in Glacier County in Montana, a big one in Lafayette LA, and a number of events associated with winter fairs and so forth. The CPRA championship is usually in October and the season resumes in February, so it might well have been a guy filling in his down time by working an agricultural job.

The boots tend to indicate farm labor rather than rodeo, which would require cowboy boots. But if he was working an interim job, he might have changed footgear.

Another possibility is an out of state hunter who was killed by a member of his party.

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A missing hunter would have been reported missing by his family or employer. So i dont think that is it. I discount the migrant worker simply because its winter, they do not stay in the area after summer. Unless I am mistaken the victim was missing one hand and entire other arm. So I think the hands were taken to stop fingerprint id, and the entire arm taken because there was a distinctive tattoo. I doubt those missing parts are ever found. They would be dumped 10, 50, 100 miles away. Only sheer luck will find them. But I do suspect that the local Sheriff prob knows more than he is letting on at present.

FigTree said:

UID's NAMUS Profile is online:
NamUs UP # 11992
ME/C Case Number: 14-44
Park County, Wyoming

FOUND: January 10, 2014 00:00
Sex: Male
Estimated age: Adult - Pre 40
Weight (pounds): 180, Estimated
Height (inches): 64, Estimated
AMPUTATIONS: head decapitated and entire left arm and right hand were removed, post mortem
SCARS & MARKS: 4-6" vertical scar on his back
CLOTHING on body: Large blue short sleeve shirt, Levis blue jeans, size 36-30, brown belt with a stitched horse head and similar stitching on belt
FOOTWEAR: Ariat brand lace up work boots with deep treads
DNA: Tests Complete
No pictures submitted as yet.
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I thought he was found on the 9th of January 2014.

No boot size mentioned on NAMUS.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/11992.

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Surprised DNA came back so quick.
NamUs Case Manager - Janet Franson
Janet is my contact for my MP case. I can contact her about the date being wrong.

PrairieWind said:

A missing hunter would have been reported missing by his family or employer. So i dont think that is it. I discount the migrant worker simply because its winter, they do not stay in the area after summer. Unless I am mistaken the victim was missing one hand and entire other arm. So I think the hands were taken to stop fingerprint id, and the entire arm taken because there was a distinctive tattoo. I doubt those missing parts are ever found. They would be dumped 10, 50, 100 miles away. Only sheer luck will find them. But I do suspect that the local Sheriff prob knows more than he is letting on at present.

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Okay, you're right about the hands; I read that wrong. So yes, probably fingerprints and tattoo. And I agree they probably know more than what they're saying.

Ranch and rodeo labor is probably more accurately described as drifter than migrant. It goes on year round. There's a lot of seasonal work in the ski and snowmobile resort areas too. Not as much as in the summer with tourists and fall with the wheat harvest, but still quite a bit.

You would think somebody would report a hunter missing, but if he was a single guy who went out with a friend or relative who had a good story, maybe not. Or maybe they were from out of state -- very common in that area -- and the report's in the home state.

I don't think he can be local, though, or somebody would have recognized him. The geographical space is immense but the population is small.

carbuff said:

Okay, you're right about the hands; I read that wrong. So yes, probably fingerprints and tattoo. And I agree they probably know more than what they're saying.

Ranch and rodeo labor is probably more accurately described as drifter than migrant. It goes on year round. There's a lot of seasonal work in the ski and snowmobile resort areas too. Not as much as in the summer with tourists and fall with the wheat harvest, but still quite a bit.

You would think somebody would report a hunter missing, but if he was a single guy who went out with a friend or relative who had a good story, maybe not. Or maybe they were from out of state -- very common in that area -- and the report's in the home state.

I don't think he can be local, though, or somebody would have recognized him. The geographical space is immense but the population is small.

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It is also possible that he came up from Texas or Mexico to work in the oil fields and where he was dumped was not connected to where he was killed or where he was prior to being killed. Here in South Dakota we are near 85 which is a direct route to Williston, ND and the oil fields. It is not unusual to have people and campers, trucks or vehicles from Texas and New Mexico in the parking lot of Wal-Mart. It is also not unusual to have groups of Hispanic, non-English speaking men shopping in Wal-Mart. For me, the fact that he was wearing expensive work boots tells me he may well have been working in the oil fields because of the price. From the pictures, they do not look to be oil stained. Perhaps he was on his way back home with a lot of cash from work and was robbed/murdered. Were there any fibers from an auto or truck on his clothes? We don't know that but I'm sure forensics testing shows more than is being released.

:banghead: I must have lost part of my post yesterday - computer

Additional thoughts: I was thinking about the hand and why it was missing (just the one hand) - was there something on his wrist that wasn't removable like a handcuff or something or that couldn't be removed that was valuable and was better undamaged?

He seemed well dressed - I wonder if he had been out somewhere the day/night he was murdered. The 9th of January (when he was found) was a Thursday - if I remember correctly LE said the body had been there 2-4 days. He could have been killed Sunday - Monday.

Haven't seen any news about if he was killed at the scene - or dumped after the murder.

The original three dot represents a gang member gangbanging with each other as equals. Adding two more dots represents a gangster who earn the right to command others or a senior gang member known as an "OG", original gangster. One surrounded by others in protection. As a Sureño (gang) symbol, the tattoo is worn between thumb and forefinger because it is believed to be harder to remove.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080115014723AAouJ26

Other hand tattoos might signify specific criminal activities or affiliations, like the number '13' (for the 13th letter of the alphabet, 'M', for Mexican Mafia).

http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/tattoos_designs_symbols_latino_hispanic.htm

Jacie Estes said:

It is also possible that he came up from Texas or Mexico to work in the oil fields and where he was dumped was not connected to where he was killed or where he was prior to being killed. Here in South Dakota we are near 85 which is a direct route to Williston, ND and the oil fields. It is not unusual to have people and campers, trucks or vehicles from Texas and New Mexico in the parking lot of Wal-Mart. It is also not unusual to have groups of Hispanic, non-English speaking men shopping in Wal-Mart. For me, the fact that he was wearing expensive work boots tells me he may well have been working in the oil fields because of the price. From the pictures, they do not look to be oil stained. Perhaps he was on his way back home with a lot of cash from work and was robbed/murdered. Were there any fibers from an auto or truck on his clothes? We don't know that but I'm sure forensics testing shows more than is being released.

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Yes, oil fields are a possibility. Good thought. Maybe heading back to Mexico/Guatemala/etc. after working in the Athabasca fields? That would fit better with the north-south route.

Man's mysterious murder, decapitation stymies Wyoming police
Fox News 29th January 2014 - Read More:
"We're well aware of the pattern of killings, if you will, of drug cartels" in Mexico, Mathess said, citing decapitations of victims of drug cartel violence there. "But again we don't really have anything to go on right now."
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It's unclear whether the man was killed where his body was found. Investigators also say there's no evidence wildlife might have removed the head.




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Wouldn't there be some evidence of blood pools or some other blood
/sand/dirt deposits that the dogs would have picked up a scent on if he was either killed or dismembered at the scene?
There are no reports of massive amounts of blood on the items he was wearing - the belt seems to have a stain on the buckle - the boot (that they show) is not covered in blood.



Boot of UID - Billings Gazette

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FigTree said:

Man's mysterious murder, decapitation stymies Wyoming police
Fox News 29th January 2014 - Read More:
"We're well aware of the pattern of killings, if you will, of drug cartels" in Mexico, Mathess said, citing decapitations of victims of drug cartel violence there. "But again we don't really have anything to go on right now."
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It's unclear whether the man was killed where his body was found. Investigators also say there's no evidence wildlife might have removed the head.

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Wouldn't there be some evidence of blood pools or some other blood
/sand/dirt deposits that the dogs would have picked up a scent on if he was either killed or dismembered at the scene?
There are no reports of massive amounts of blood on the items he was wearing - the belt seems to have a stain on the buckle - the boot (that they show) is not covered in blood.

Boot of UID - Billings Gazette

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Looking at the picture on the top, I just wanted to mention how beautiful this part of the country is. If you are into green lawns and white picket fences it may not be, but when you live in this section of the country you appreciate just how amazing it is.

I would really like to see the truck that brought him to the scene.

Jacie Estes said:

Looking at the picture on the top, I just wanted to mention how beautiful this part of the country is. If you are into green lawns and white picket fences it may not be, but when you live in this section of the country you appreciate just how amazing it is.

I would really like to see the truck that brought him to the scene.

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Yes, that beautiful rusted dirt and that sapphire sky - breathtaking.

Below is just my opinion...
I also think he was driven there murdered and dismembered already awaiting to be dumped. And I think it was a truck with a tray and they just rolled him out.
I dont think who ever did this was alone and I dont think they would have risked being caught removing body parts - nor being pulled over anywhere along their travel by Police if they were on the highway at all. Maybe they didnt have far to travel.

I hope they have some answers soon for this UID.

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Now I'm homesick for that big open sky.

If he was dead for a while before they removed the parts, there wouldn't have been much blood. It coagulates in the vessels. Ew.

Another "ew" thought: in this part of the world, many people habitually carry small chainsaws and/or axes in their truck toolbox, for clearing brush, fallen trees, etc. Also hunting knives, fish knives, fire axes (for fighting brush fires), and other implements that could be put to other uses.

How often do people visit (or at least drive by) the area where the UID was found? Do people go walking, duck-hunting etc. there often?

If it's a place where people go walking or duck-hunting often, then that suggests that the perpetrator(s) weren't locals or didn't really care if the body was found (possibly because they were sure he wouldn't be identified).

Migmuu said:

How often do people visit (or at least drive by) the area where the UID was found? Do people go walking, duck-hunting etc. there often?

If it's a place where people go walking or duck-hunting often, then that suggests that the perpetrator(s) weren't locals or didn't really care if the body was found (possibly because they were sure he wouldn't be identified).

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From the condition of the road in the photo -- two tire tracks with vegetation in between -- I'd guess a couple of vehicles a week. It's used often enough that the vegetation is beaten down. On a less frequently used road, the grass would be tall enough to touch a vehicle's undercarriage. More frequent travel would keep the dirt between beaten out as well.

I wish I knew where the exact location was and whether there's a fence. It's described as a dead-end road but the map looks like the tracks continue beyond the official end. If they stopped at the end, I would guess they were not real familiar with the road and didn't realize they could continue to an even more isolated location.

I go back and forth on whether I think locals were involved. It's not really the kind of place you'd stumble onto if you didn't know the area at all, but a general familiarity with rural western roads could lead you that direction.

carbuff said:

From the condition of the road in the photo -- two tire tracks with vegetation in between -- I'd guess a couple of vehicles a week. It's used often enough that the vegetation is beaten down. On a less frequently used road, the grass would be tall enough to touch a vehicle's undercarriage. More frequent travel would keep the dirt between beaten out as well.

I wish I knew where the exact location was and whether there's a fence. It's described as a dead-end road but the map looks like the tracks continue beyond the official end. If they stopped at the end, I would guess they were not real familiar with the road and didn't realize they could continue to an even more isolated location.

I go back and forth on whether I think locals were involved. It's not really the kind of place you'd stumble onto if you didn't know the area at all, but a general familiarity with rural western roads could lead you that direction.

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I was listening to the Police Investigation Media Conference Badger Basin Homicicde Conference and there were a couple of things said which may answer some questions - and pose more questions.
not word for word - but main details.

0.50sec - The body was found in a creek ditch 10-12 feet on the north side of the road.
02 min 36 - Until the foresic investigation is completed they will not be certain exactly where the crime was committed.
02 min 36 - There are several other injuries to the body which cant be discussed, on the body.
4:00 min - The body was found approximate 1 and a half to 1 and a three quarter miles up the road - the crime was committed basically in the middle of the road.
05:00 min - the closest residence is 5-6miles away
07 min:50 - Q: Is there alot of blood in the area? A There's a fair amount.
08 min:30 - Q: What is the usage of that road (Little Sand Couleee Rd). A: Theres a fair amount of usage - (1)There was evidence of a vehicle on that road but it turned around and wouldn't have seen the body (they have taken evidence regarding that find) - (2) The road is Used more in Summer (3) The area is pretty notorious for College kid hangouts and capers. Theres crates and nails and things out there.
13 min 20 - Q: Regarding the road - how often is 'often' in usage? A: I would venture to guess there are people up and down that road daily - How far they go along that road is another thing (2) You see a lot of turn arounds on that road, so again I would say 'multiple times daily' there is someone on that road. (3) There are several ponds out there - retention ponds for rain water
15 min 25 - Q: Was there are tyre marks or evidence - Was the body dragged and dumped on the side of the road? A: Well I cant speculate - its winter and frozen ground (3)
15 min 40: Q: You said something happened in the middle of the road? A: Well its hard to speculate if thats where the crime happened or weather thats where there is evid[cut] of where the body was transferred from a vehicle.

End of conference 17 min 18 sec.
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I am sure I saw a picture of the shirt online.
01.20 - The victim was wearing a dark blue button down shirt with long sleeves ...
My question is how badly was the shirt damaged?
Is there enough blood on the shirt to indicate it was being worn at the time of the dismemberment?
Did someone just roll up the sleeve to remove the arm - or was the sleeve cut as well?
I dont remember seeing that much damage and blood on the shirt to imply the loss of an arm, a hand, and other body injuries.
If the left arm and the right hand were removed and if the body had several other inflicted injuries - was the body naked when the arm was removed and then the body redressed? Which may include his jeans and shoes?

It also sounds to me as if the body was dumped from a vehicle into the middle of the road and then the body was dragged or carried across the frozen dirt 10-12 feet to the north side (of the road) and left in the creek drain.
Im thinking they have got some evidence from all of that activity.


And looking at the picture it seems they chose a dip in the road - which may have been chosen purposely to concealed the vehicle from the main Little Sands Coulee Road.

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Wow, thanks for posting that! Excellent information.

Jaquie posted this link earlier...
Picture link: kulr8.com January 14 2014. Read More...

In the News Conference transcript above post - The Sheriff said there was a considerable amount of blood...

Assuming that this is the spot 'in the middle of the road' mentioned by the Sheriff where there was 'some activity' - it is hard to say if the UID was a) shot in this place (possibly dismembered on the back of a truck tray or on a sheet at the spot, or where the body was found) or B) he was dumped on the road there and left blood where he was dropped.

Here are some further screencaptures of the location of the blood on the road
carbuff - I am not seeing (from these pics) - a fence along the road side...







Below - Road and creek run on left hand side



Pic below: screencap was shown as a creek ditch but I cannot confirm this is the spot - though it shows the condition of the terrain.

Few observations:
Not seeing or hearing in the reports much about the blue shirt.
Height of the UID is ranging from 5"5' to 5"8'
Native American description is not being used any more


Another thought I had was possibly that the reason this UID is superficially unidentifiable (no fingerprints or face) and hasn't been reported Missing - maybe possibly someone had stolen his identity and the UID is 'not missing' as such.

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FigTree said:

Few observations:
Not seeing or hearing in the reports much about the blue shirt.
Height of the UID is ranging from 5"5' to 5"8'
Native American description is not being used any more


Another thought I had was possibly that the reason this UID is superficially unidentifiable (no fingerprints or face) and hasn't been reported Missing - maybe possibly someone had stolen his identity and the UID is 'not missing' as such.

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Or the person most likely to report him missing was the one responsible for the death. Or it was reported in another state and hasn't made it into the national listings yet.

And along those lines, there's this very odd missing person incident in Boston:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ma...ith-two-men/7AU48CJTtw8uLcqXLxRHWO/story.html

State Police are investigating the “suspicious disappearance” of a 37-year-old Avon man[James J. Robertson], who was last seen on New Year’s Day, climbing into a car with two men...The two men allegedly displayed law enforcement badges and handguns at Robertson’s home, before leaving with him in the car, police said.

The timeline would fit; if you drive from Boston to Wyoming down I-80 and stop overnight, it takes 2-3 days, which would get them to Wyoming around Jan. 3-4, which would fit with the estimate for how long he'd been dead. And clearly they weren't taking him to dinner; in fact, none of the stories give a description for Robertson, only the suspects.

But why on earth would they kidnap somebody in Boston and drive clear to Wyoming to execute him?

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/23037/10/
worth taking a look at. Although the weight seems to be off. This man also has had spine surgery..which can lead people to put on weight.