You can't have it both ways. The trainer at her gym says she was super athletic and that he thinks she could have physically gone over the railing (although I think he also said he doesn't think she did commit suicide, just that she could have jumped a railing). And her sister said she recently did a marathon and was very athletic. So why couldn't she lift a child less than half her weight?
I am the same height as RZ, although I weigh 7 lbs less than she did. I am not athletic, but I am fit. I can easily lift a 45 lb child.
One, he was not less than half her weight.
Two, he would have been fighting back.
He hasn't openly disagreed with the AR but I wouldn't expect him to because it does support his diagnosis. If he disagrees with the ME's conclusion as to manner of death, I would think he may do that privately with Max's parents.
An insider posted here days ago that Max's mother still thinks he was suffocated. This was before the AR was released.
JMO
I am glad this is your opinion, as this is accusing the doctor of giving out information that had not been proven, and which cps emphatically states not to discuss when a case is opened.
Christopher Reeve had a broken neck. MS did not.
Spinal cord contusions are almost always NOT fatal. I posted a link on thread one that contained a video of a doctor explaining that. They can be fatal in cases of extreme speed, like a race car driver.
But in this instance they were, as proven by autopsy. So just because something does not always happen, does not mean that it can not happen.
The ICU doctor has never spoken publicly as far as I know.
Since he has not come out and said he has changed his opinion.... I think he still believes what he believed when he did the extensive tests on Max for four days.
IMO
The fact that the ICU doctor has not spoken out publicly, does not mean that he still feels the same way he did when he assessed Max's VISIBLE injuries.
So, why, if he continued to do extensive testing for four days, would he have disclosed to the parents that Max may have been suffocated? Wouldn't he have contacted cps and gone ahead to try to prove, disprove his reasoning? What was the need for the extensive testing for four days? Maybe due to the fact that his potential diagnosis, did not fit Max's scenario? Not saying this was the case, but it is one possibility. Doctors do NOT always know what is wrong with a patient immediately, or the extent of injuries immediately.
bbm
The spinal cord is part of the central nervous system, which branches out into the peripheral nervous system. The spinal cord consists of nervous tissue as well as connective tissue.
A fracture of the vertebrae is not necessary in order to cause an injury to the spinal cord, as has been evidenced in MS's injuries.
Analyzing injuries is like a puzzle. It's not enough to say "spinal cord injury". You have to know the specific kind of injury because only specific kinds of actions can cause certain injuries. That's why it's so significant that we know MS's head went back violently enough to unplug his spinal cord. He fell FORWARDS, not backwards. No marks on the back of his head. Not a single one.
And notice the marks on his nose as dicussed in the AR. He did not have a broken nose, which you would expect with a violent fall. He has bruising. Bruising indicates pressure, not a violent, fatal fall forwards.
Please re read Sorrells post above yours concerning the spinal cord injury.
He would not have had to have a broken nose to have bruising. He had a head wound. The head is very vascular. Think about a man getting a cut shaving and how long it can bleed.
If the blood is internal, it can easily cause bruising throughout the sinus cavity, including around the eyes and nose. Think about having an iv or getting blood drawn. Getting a bump on your head and how it can bruise around your eye. Bumping into something and having a huge bruise an hour or a day later. Bruising means that blood is caught under the skin, that it leaked into the tissue and created the bruising from an injury, pressure from an ambu bag and people holding it in place, etc, etc, etc.
A question for you: Did Christopher Reeves have to die and have an autopsy before doctors could determine what was wrong with him?
Question back. How long was Christopher is the hospital, undergoing tests? He also had fractures, which was established above, that the injury to the spine can occur with or without fractures.
It seems to me, without seeing exactly what tests were performed, that the doctor at first, focused on the brain and injuries to the head/brain region, vs looking at the extent the spinal cord may have been damaged. As time went bye, I am sure that changed and more extensive tests were performed. I would like to see the doctors discharge summary. That is the only way to know if he truly felt the same way as in his first, visual assessment.
I understand what you're saying, but Dr. Peterson didn't believe he hit his head hard enough for it to bounce back with such force to cause a spinal contusion and neither do I. If he hit his head that hard, why isn't his nose broken? Remember, his nose had bruising, as did his clavicle. Wouldn't they have fractured?
Link please, as Max did not land on his nose, but most likely where the fracture occurred.
I don't believe LE lied or covered-up MS cause of death.
Bingo and imho the post of the day!!!!!! I agree, no one lied or covered up the fact that Max had a tragic and fatal accident. They also stated that this was an unwitnessed fall.
My son committed suicide by hanging. My daughter found him on her way to her bedroom,screamed and my husband ran up. They got him down (I'll spare you the details) and my husband started CPR .He continued until paramedics arrived ,about 5-7 minutes later .Adrenalin was pumping and he kept it up. BUT the paramedics and EMT's never took over .They didn't work on him at all,but ran with him to the ambulance.
I met them at the emergency room entrance ,since I was at my parents house closer to the hospital. What my daughter noticed,and I did not,was,they weren't giving him breathes in any way ,not even with an ambu bag. I just thought he was breathing on his own,but he was already gone.I don't know if they ever tried.Maybe they saw signs that he had been gone too long.
My husband assumed they didn't want to waste a minute at our house doing CPR,but wanted to get to the emergency room asap. Six years ago the closest hospital was 20 minutes away. Today there's one 5 minutes away. I try not to dwell on that stuff. I imagine Max's parents have similar "if only's".Doesn't bring them back,though.
I am so sorry for your loss and everything that you and your family have had to go through!! (((((Hugs))))) and thank you so much for being kind enough to share this with us.
I don't see how posting a quote from a loving grandmother shows anger and hostility towards anyone. I can speak for myself when I say I have no anger or hostility to anyone, particularly to someone I have only read about on the internet. I will say, however, that I feel compelled to be a voice for a dead child who is being blamed for his death.
I'm sorry, but I truly do not understand how anyone is 'blaming' Max?
Yes, and somehow it wound up over his leg when he obviously landed face first (as proven by the marks on the front of his head).
Also odd is that a child falling with such force onto the floor had only bruising on his nose and not a broken nose.
Addressed above and not at all odd if Max held onto the Razr for dear life. Poor baby, I can only imagine how terrifying that would have been.
It took 4 days to assess his injuries. His injuries were known on day one.
Yes, I have questions why it should have taken 4 days, in a childrens ICU, with a staff proficient in treating children, for them to realize the extent of Max's spinal involvement also. Thank you for bringing that up, as that has made me think a lot.
I agree with you about where MS landed when he went over the railing. However, that would not explain the bruising around the nose, the clavicle, the abrasions on his spine that match the number of steps above the landing, nor would it explain why he did not have abrasions on his hands from either trying to stop his fall, or cuts from grabbing a chandelier.
If he held on to the scooter, he would have no injuries to his hands. The angles of the fall were not witnessed. The geometry of the fall has explained the extent of Max's spinal injuries.
FWIW and FYI, I'm not talking about any specific telepone call or text, but I'm sure everyone is aware that when you're in the hospital, they request you turn off your phone. Even in a doctor's office. So it's very plausible that Jonah had his phone off the MAJORITY of the time he was at the hospital with his critically injurred son.
JMHO
fran
Fran, where I have worked for the last 10 years, it has not been tequired to turn off your cell phone. The older equipment would and still would be affected by cell phones or computers. I have trouble believing that Rady's as renowned as it is, still has that type of equipment. Even our hospital, which is not state of the art is not affected by any electronic devices. So in other words, it varies from facility to facility.