Casey and Family Psych Profile #11

I could be wrong, but just can't see George ever admitting to doing anything criminal to anyone. He thinks way too highly of himself and is always pointing out his accomplishments in the few times he's spoken. He might admit to, and testify that he was volatile during the years Casey was growing up though. There's just no way that a jury would ever fall for the baloney of believing that Casey was afraid of Cindy either, and that's the reason she didn't tell about Caylee for a month. Cindy makes the occasional outlandish statement to the media, but she has never really helped Casey. She's actually pointed towards her guilt and lies, even the other day by saying that she had take the "work purse" out of the vehicle. Everyone knows that Casey didn't even need to be hauling around that purse, and Cindy knows it too. They probably want Cindy far away from the court during the trial and only want George to blow up and get volatile to prove that he traumatized poor Casey.

Sorry if this has been posted-In regards to the Dr. that evaluated KC in a 3.5 hour jail visit back in February:

http://www.alligator.org/app/pt2/specials/rolling/krop3.html


Interesting, but my first thought is that, unlike Rolling, KC is not emotionally drained. You can't be emotionally drained when you do not have emotions to begin with.

I have to wonder if he spent the entire 3.5 hours trying to get her to say anything about Caylee. I believe KC might think she can outwit the Docs anyway. If she tries to play games or uses weird avoidance tactics, I wonder if he will conclude that she is decidedly sociopathic or beyond.

I hope this isn't OT, I just listened to this and thought it was super applicable. This week's episode of This American Life was called See No Evil (you can listen to it at that link), and it had a segment that reminded me so much of the Anthonys and almost made them make sense in a way. Basically these brothers' mom goes missing in New Jersey and one of the brothers was the last to see her, and the other family all rally around him. They tell Law Enforcement that he has been unfairly marked, that LE isnt' even looking for the "real" killer, they're being lazy and just want to close the investigation. All because they just can't fathom this guy having done such a thing.

Well (SPOILER, if you want to listen to the ep, it really is a good one)- turns out the mom, unbeknownst to the public, had a major drinking problem and a massive temper, and had snapped on her boys many times. In this particular instance (when she was killed), she had shown up at one of the guys' houses that she owned and he was caretaker of and found it to be massively filthy. She lost it and started screaming about how she wished he'd never been born, up so close she's spitting in his face when she's yelling, and she shoved him. He shoves back, she tries to put him in a headlock, and then he basically grabs her neck and doesn't let go until...

He keeps the body in the house for 4 days, and finally dumps it like 5 miles from the house. His brothers and sisters-in-law absolutely do not think he had anything to do with it until they finally beg him to just tell them what happened, they make him close his eyes and walk through the events of the evening, and he finally comes forward with what happened. Now it's years later and they still can't understand it, they love her and him but hate what he did and can't wrap their brain around how he kept the body there.

There were SO many parallels between this case in New Jersey and the Anthonys. IMO the key to this whole thing is the physical altercation between KC and CA when she brought poor Caylee back from Mt Dora, I think that fight was the straw that broke the camel's back, as they say.

There is a reason for my following post:

Just got a phone bill with roaming charges (which I expected) but I did not expect the amount. Sitting here in shock - BUT MY POINT IS THIS.

How in God's name did Cindy allow charges sometimes in the thousands from January 2008 on (upwards of 3,000 I believe in January and February) and then 300+ a month after that.

Seriously, why would Cindy allow this to continue. No wonder KC felt like she could do anything to this family. It is absolutely shocking to me that she would allow her daughter to charge and steal this amount of money from her EVERY MONTH.

I mean you read it and say okay, this is ridiculous, but now that I have an unexpected amount it really hits home. I cannot even imagine what kind of dysfunction was going on in that house. Cindy left every day KNOWING she was being stolen from by her own daughter WHO WAS NOT WORKING and just let it ride.

HOW DO YOU PAY THIS and let it happen again and again and why do you do it. It is incredible.

Solace said:

There is a reason for my following post:

Just got a phone bill with roaming charges (which I expected) but I did not expect the amount. Sitting here in shock - BUT MY POINT IS THIS.

How in God's name did Cindy allow charges sometimes in the thousands from January 2008 on (upwards of 3,000 I believe in January and February) and then 300+ a month after that.

Seriously, why would Cindy allow this to continue. No wonder KC felt like she could do anything to this family. It is absolutely shocking to me that she would allow her daughter to charge and steal this amount of money from her EVERY MONTH.

I mean you read it and say okay, this is ridiculous, but now that I have an unexpected amount it really hits home. I cannot even imagine what kind of dysfunction was going on in that house. Cindy left every day KNOWING she was being stolen from by her own daughter WHO WAS NOT WORKING and just let it ride.

HOW DO YOU PAY THIS and let it happen again and again and why do you do it. It is incredible.

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It's the price she chose to pay to keep Caylee in her home. Well that sure backfired, Cindy. It did not allow you to be in control of Caylee by letting ICA do anything she wanted.

ETA: It's not like they were so rolling in cash and didn't notice all these charges and bills. I think they were realistically closer to the lower end of the middle class spectrum, based on an RN's salary in Florida and George's minimum wage type jobs, when he was working. That makes it all the more obvious that Cindy allowed it to happen continuously.

pip said:

It's the price she chose to pay to keep Caylee in her home. Well that sure backfired, Cindy. It did not allow you to be in control of Caylee by letting ICA do anything she wanted.

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Seriously PIP, I am sitting here in shock and I expected roaming charges. So God only knows where I would be if I received ONGOING charges and theft from my accounts every day. The girl was stealing from her on line accounts daily - The Meter has it documented -

She let her leave every day KNOWING she was going to steal from her and was not working and then gave George chit about it when he said she is not working.

I hate to say Cindy what did you expect when you let someone treat you like dirt under their shoe - no one ever expects murder - but this is an example of I cannot stand you Mom and this proves it. IMO

I had to order a flan with my salad to overcome the shock.

Solace said:

Seriously PIP, I am sitting here in shock and I expected roaming charges. So God only knows where I would be if I received ONGOING charges and theft from my accounts every day. The girl was stealing from her on line accounts daily - The Meter has it documented -

She let her leave every day KNOWING she was going to steal from her and was not working and then gave George chit about it when he said she is not working.

I hate to say Cindy what did you expect when you let someone treat you like dirt under their shoe - no one ever expects murder - but this is an example of I cannot stand you Mom and this proves it. IMO

I had to order a flan with my salad to overcome the shock.

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I feel your pain, been there, done that. It stings. Allowing this stealing clearly defines how desperate Cindy was to keep Caylee in her home. I think that if she would have confronted ICA, she ran the risk of the unimaginable. Maybe ICA would have taken Caylee and moved in with a boyfriend, who knows what else, but all unacceptable to Cindy. My guess is that ICA probably threatened to take Caylee away all the time. When Cindy probably finally confronted ICA on the 15th, Cindy's fears came true (although I don't think she realized it would be murder). ICA had nowhere to go with Caylee, but lived up to her threat to take Caylee away from her. JMO.

pip said:

I feel your pain, been there, done that. It stings. Allowing this stealing clearly defines how desperate Cindy was to keep Caylee in her home. I think that if she would have confronted ICA, she ran the risk of the unimaginable. Maybe ICA would have taken Caylee and moved in with a boyfriend, who knows what else, but all unacceptable to Cindy. My guess is that ICA probably threatened to take Caylee away all the time. When Cindy probably finally confronted ICA on the 15th, Cindy's fears came true (although I don't think she realized it would be murder). ICA had nowhere to go with Caylee, but lived up to her threat to take Caylee away from her. JMO.

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She must have threatened her all the time with leaving. HOWEVVVVVVVA,

She had her on stealing from her mother, etc. Anyway....

Also, remember Ricardo said KC and Caylee were staying over five nights a week from January 2008 through March.

And then when KC gets out on bond, she calls George a $#%bag and tells him to start acting like a father and CINDY goes along and tells him he should leave.

And now he is on the stand making a fool out of himself for someone who is accusing him of sexual abuse.

My son is paying half the bill and I just finished the flan.

Solace said:

She must have threatened her all the time with leaving. HOWEVVVVVVVA,

She had her on stealing from her mother, etc. Anyway....

Also, remember Ricardo said KC and Caylee were staying over five nights a week from January 2008 through March.

And then when KC gets out on bond, she calls George a $#%bag and tells him to start acting like a father and CINDY goes along and tells him he should leave.

And now he is on the stand making a fool out of himself for someone who is accusing him of sexual abuse.

My son is paying half the bill and I just finished the flan.

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George was treated the same by both CA and ICA. They were the powerful forces in the household, themselves in a duel for control. I think Cindy did all she could to make sure ICA and George remained dependent on her. She allowed so much so they wouldn't leave her. Cindy desperately needs to be in control of everyone. I think she feared loss of control more than potential loss of her husband and daughter. I believe she feared loss of Caylee for more emotional/love reasons, but for control of her as well. It's odd and delusional how allowing them to steal her money puts CA in a position of control in her mind, when in reality Cindy is NOT in control if she has to allow this to keep them there.

pip said:

George was treated the same by both CA and ICA. They were the powerful forces in the household, themselves in a duel for control. I think Cindy did all she could to make sure ICA and George remained dependent on her. She allowed so much so they wouldn't leave her. Cindy desperately needs to be in control of everyone. I think she feared loss of control more than potential loss of her husband and daughter. I believe she feared loss of Caylee for more emotional/love reasons, but for control of her as well. It's odd and delusional how allowing them to steal her money puts CA in a position of control in her mind, when in reality Cindy is NOT in control if she has to allow this to keep them there.

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Totally agree. THERE IS NO WAY she did not know that KC was pregnant early on and liked the idea. There is no way, nada, never happened. She knew and liked the idea and let it go. And then brought her to her brother's wedding where he was in shock when he saw KC and yet she still denied it, but knew, no doubt.

She wanted KC dependent upon her. Absolutely 1000% agree.

And she definitely let her steal from her so she would need her - need her money, need Cindy.

Oh my Goddddddd!.

And then when she closes out the account, KC starts looking up neck breaking at that time. Talk about red flags Cindy. Cindy loves that expression - there were no red flags.

Pip and Solace, I have enjoyed these posts immensely, and laughed a bit too. Both of you bring up so many valid points and questions. It certainly ends up being a catch 22 for Cindy doesn't it? I want you to not leave me, but I despise what you do to me to keep you to stay, but I want you to stay, more than I despise you. Whew, I would be in a loony bin by now if I was her!

Do you think Cindy has any guilt about this?

Frigga said:

Pip and Solace, I have enjoyed these posts immensely, and laughed a bit too. Both of you bring up so many valid points and questions. It certainly ends up being a catch 22 for Cindy doesn't it? I want you to not leave me, but I despise what you do to me to keep you to stay, but I want you to stay, more than I despise you. Whew, I would be in a loony bin by now if I was her!

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When KC gets out, she and Cindy are going to look for Caylee. Okay......

Frigga said:

Pip and Solace, I have enjoyed these posts immensely, and laughed a bit too. Both of you bring up so many valid points and questions. It certainly ends up being a catch 22 for Cindy doesn't it? I want you to not leave me, but I despise what you do to me to keep you to stay, but I want you to stay, more than I despise you. Whew, I would be in a loony bin by now if I was her!

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Oh Frigga, what an afternoon. If I had to do this everyday, I would be speaking in tongues and have a side order of Torettes syndrome. I don't know how Cindy is doing it. But she gets up on the stand this past hearing and lies as she twiddles her thumbs. Out and out lies. Most of the time KC does not acknowledge her in the courtroom.

Talk about a reality show. No wonder it is the trial to beat all trials - no one can believe what is going on. It gets worse every day. And usually for George. But that's okay, George, we'll just put out a statement that you are innocent and have been cleared and don't worry about the sexual abuse thing - we are trying to save KC, who does not acknowledge you at all.

Solace said:

Do you think Cindy has any guilt about this?

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guilt vs. regret.
I would have to lean towards guilt. I am not sure she would do all she is doing to save ICA if it were regret.
Acting upon guilt to save ICA also is a way to forgive herself. It is more about saving her own soul than saving ICA.
I am sure she feels regret as well, but her motivating factor is guilt.

There is also that dysfunctional pride that motivates her. She has to safe face as much as she has to save her guilt ridden soul.

1. I do think she has guilt (in the dark far away recesses of her psyche) about this... I really do.

2. Very good point about the ' looking for Caylee together', if that isn't certifiable, I don't know what is!

3. Boy does CA lie, and how... and for what really? One thing I learned, in all of my many years in therapy, is you have to follow things through to the end in your mind, if you are worried about something and you just stay in the worry and don't contemplate all the ways that worry can go- good and bad, then your thinking becomes stuck, and possibly flawed (certainly limited).

The other thing I learned is in the absence of absolute proof (ie you actually witnessed something) you have to always be able to consider both sides as a possibility for being true. We will never see that from Cindy, I am convinced (although I hope I am wrong).

4. It does get worse every day and none of it makes sense to me in regards to the accusations being made and the response and behavior of the accused. I'll leave it there because my views on that subject are contravercial (sp?), and not well accepted. I value all the differing opinions about it though.

I am going to say that Cindy "had" tremendous guilt on July 16th. Something happened in 24 hours to make her say Caylee is alive and KC is trying to save us.

What I think happened was Cindy was saving herself from the overwhelming Guilt of not taking care of Caylee. She knew when KC left sometimes five days in a row with Caylee that it was wrong, that KC had no job - no money - so how was she taking care of her. She let all that happen. So the guilt had to be tremendous and somewhere along the line, she said no this is not working for me, no way. Caylee is alive and KC is innocent.

Although, Mark Fuhrman says when he went to the house he said "you know she is dead" and George shook his head yes and cried and Cindy just stared. Sean Krauss (who has since died) says he told Cindy he believed KC murdered Caylee and she did not hang up on him, she was silent. He took that for agreement.

So, no matter how much denial she is in, there is a very strong part of her that knows KC murdered her child and that she let the ball drop, and there is nothing worse than that. No wonder she is reading that Bible.

And remember she is not above implicating the innocent. She tried again on the stand - making reference to the "fact" that Amy said she had only been to Tony's house once but was able to go right to it when she brought Cindy there. That was a statement she made to Yuri and the FBI and found it very odd. She also got it in at the latest hearing.

So when I sometimes feel sorry for her, I realize she can be quite destructive STILL in implicating innocent people like Amy who did nothing but try to help her find KC.

But maybe a shrink would say this goes along with her illness (because Cindy is most definitely ill, imo) and she is in profound denial.

Solace said:

I am going to say that Cindy "had" tremendous guilt on July 16th. Something happened in 24 hours to make her say Caylee is alive and KC is trying to save us.

What I think happened was Cindy was saving herself from the overwhelming Guilt of not taking care of Caylee. She knew when KC left sometimes five days in a row with Caylee that it was wrong, that KC had no job - no money - so how was she taking care of her. She let all that happen. So the guilt had to be tremendous and somewhere along the line, she said no this is working for me, no way. Caylee is alive and KC is innocent.

Although, Mark Fuhrman says when he went to the house he said "you know she is dead" and George shook his head yes and cried and Cindy just stared. Sean Krauss (who has since died) says he told Cindy he believed KC murdered Caylee and she did not hang up on him, she was silent. He took that for agreement.

So, no matter how much denial she is in, there is a very strong part of her that knows KC murdered her child and that she let the ball drop, and there is nothing worse than that. No wonder she is reading that Bible.

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There is the guilt factor that she dropped the ball and didn't take care of Caylee, but also the guilt of her part in the dysfunctional, power struggled relationship with ICA that led to the death of Caylee. She did not call ICA on her BS along the way due to her own selfish need to keep them there. So when she finally confronts her (which she should have done long ago), the result is murder. She probably regrets not confronting her much earlier before their relationship had become so volatile.

Solace said:

Totally agree. THERE IS NO WAY she did not know that KC was pregnant early on and liked the idea. There is no way, nada, never happened. She knew and liked the idea and let it go. And then brought her to her brother's wedding where he was in shock when he saw KC and yet she still denied it, but knew, no doubt.

She wanted KC dependent upon her. Absolutely 1000% agree.

And she definitely let her steal from her so she would need her - need her money, need Cindy.

Oh my Goddddddd!.

And then when she closes out the account, KC starts looking up neck breaking at that time. Talk about red flags Cindy. Cindy loves that expression - there were no red flags.

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bbm
March 2008.... Quite a few things happened in March 2008...
To list a few,

-Cindy closes the account cutting off Casey money supply IMO this must have really pissed Casey off.
-internet searchers,(neck breaking, chloroform, household weapons, shovel)
-Casey unable to go out St Patty's day..
-Casey gets check for her bday from Plesea grandparents...(where to get the money to pay bills now SOLVED..used routing number from check)
-Casey downloads One Tree Hill 100th episode about the child/nanny kidnapping

pip said:

There is the guilt factor that she dropped the ball and didn't take care of Caylee, but also the guilt of her part in the dysfunctional, power struggled relationship with ICA that led to the death of Caylee. She did not call ICA on her BS along the way due to her own selfish need to keep them there. So when she finally confronts her (which she should have done long ago), the result is murder. She probably regrets not confronting her much earlier before their relationship had become so volatile.

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And also, Cindy has KC dependent on her again to a certain extent. Cindy brings her clothes; Cindy lies for her; Cindy puts money in her account. and the beat goes on. KC won't be getting her own apartment anymore, she has one ready for her and Casey will know where she is at all times. So in some selfish warped way, Cindy is making this work.