GZ Case - Defense Perspective

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vlpate said:
Yes, but SPD had all those things when they said this on 3/12: "“In this case Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense,” Lee said. “Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don’t have the grounds to arrest him.”

The ONLY thing they didn't have when this announcement was made, because no one knew about it, was the statement from the g/f, that's it. They had the video of the reenactment and they had the autopsy, and gun forensics. IMO, the murder 2 charges stems from that phone call bringing in the words of TM via her, and reaching. JMO

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/12/2690445/sanford-chief-no-charges-yet-in.html#storylink=cpy
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I don't believe they stated they had the ME report at that time. Where was that reported??? I think the ME report would have been the last report AC would have been waiting for. Was Lee ever out at the crime scene? I don't know. Lee has stepped down he claims "because of my involvement". So the homocide detective wanted to pursue the investigation and it was squashed by Lee and Wolfinger. Both men removed from the case. Pretty much tells us what happened here.

I believe Gilbreath stated what the evidence was and one of those three mentioned was TM's body. I'm guessing the ME report was very, very important. jmo
 
Phoenixfla said:
I would think that the affidavit that provides the probable cause for charging him should have enough in it to justify the charges.
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Phoenixfla, I think both GZ and MOM waved their appearance for tomorrow. jmo
 
LambChop said:
Phoenixfla, I think both GZ and MOM waved their appearance for tomorrow. jmo
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I think you may have been replying to another post regarding appearance tomorrow. I was talking about what was in the PC Affidavit.
 
LambChop said:
I don't believe they stated they had the ME report at that time. Where was that reported??? I think the ME report would have been the last report AC would have been waiting for. Was Lee ever out at the crime scene? I don't know. Lee has stepped down he claims "because of my involvement". So the homocide detective wanted to pursue the investigation and it was squashed by Lee and Wolfinger. Both men removed from the case. Pretty much tells us what happened here.

I believe Gilbreath stated what the evidence was and one of those three mentioned was TM's body. I'm guessing the ME report was very, very important. jmo
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"Police did that night prepare an incident report that lists "manslaughter" as the possible crime being investigated, but in every case in which an officer prepares an incident report, he or she fills in that spot with some crime and statute number to allow the agency to properly report crime statistics to the FBI.

Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."
OS article here

Bold emphasis mine.
 
vlpate said:
"Police did that night prepare an incident report that lists "manslaughter" as the possible crime being investigated, but in every case in which an officer prepares an incident report, he or she fills in that spot with some crime and statute number to allow the agency to properly report crime statistics to the FBI.

Two weeks ago, during an exclusive interview with the Sentinel, Lee disclosed certain details of the investigation and during that session, attended by Serino and others, Serino said his investigation turned up no reliable evidence that cast doubt on Zimmerman's account – that he had acted in self-defense.

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."
OS article here

Bold emphasis mine.
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The BBBM emphasis is mine.
 
suzihawk said:
The BBBM emphasis is mine.
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So he changed his story for this interview. No wonder the Chief said he was stepping down because of "his involvement". Wonder if the detective had thumb screws on under the table. lol just kidding. jmo
 
suzihawk said:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-ma...gation-killing/story?id=15949879#.T6dRxcWkAa8
<snipped for emphasis>
ABC News has learned police seemed to accept Zimmerman's account at face value that night and that
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BEM: Wonder where they "learned" this information?

I'll take ABC's reports at face value, they, along with most media in this case, has abandoned all regard for the facts.

For instance, from your LINK:
""This guy looks like he's on drugs, he's definitely messed up."

Obviously, the bold was never said. Actual words of GZ: "“This guy looks like he's up to no good or he's on drugs or something. It's raining, and he's just walking around looking about."
.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO0oyDFS4Jo&feature=related"]Eight 911 Calls[/ame]

Then there are the BLATANT distortions of truth:
"Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents at a town hall.

"A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.

"Witnesses told ABC News a fistfight broke out and, at one point, Zimmerman, who outweighed Martin by more than 100 pounds, was on the ground and that Martin was on top."

"Witnesses told ABC News they heard Zimmerman pronounce, "It was self-defense," and place the gun on the ground."

"Yet public records showed that Zimmerman was charged with battery against on officer and resisting arrest in 2005, a charge that was later expunged."

ALL bolded are fabrications. This reporter should be terminated, IMO. Even with an allowed MSM source such as this poor excuse, people should go elsewhere for the truth.

None of this is relative to the defensive or the prosecutor's perspective, this is fodder for an online petition.

JMO
 
suzihawk said:
The BBBM emphasis is mine.
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In context:

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."
 
LambChop said:
So he changed his story for this interview. No wonder the Chief said he was stepping down because of "his involvement". Wonder if the detective had thumb screws on under the table. lol just kidding. jmo
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How did he change his story? He had never spoken out about this case before. If you are referring to Tracy Martin's version of what Serino said, that is hearsay.
 
vlpate said:
How did he change his story? He had never spoken out about this case before. If you are referring to Tracy Martin's version of what Serino said, that is hearsay.
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http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...-wanted-Zimmerman-charged/UPI-41991332833400/

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-28/news/31246265_1_zimmerman-fatal-shooting-twitter-account

I think we have known that the homocide detective wanted to press charges the first night from the beginning. I don't think this is news we have not heard before. jmo
 
vlpate said:
In context:

"The best evidence we have is the testimony of George Zimmerman, and he says the decedent was the primary aggressor in the whole event," Serino told the Sentinel March 16. "Everything I have is adding up to what he says."
Click to expand...

In or out of context, it doesn't change my opinion. I don't find Zimmerman very credible.

Serino was the officer that wanted Zimmerman arrested on manslaughter charges but was overruled by Chief Lee and SA Wolfinger - both of which stepped down. I wonder why Serino felt compelled to change his story?
 
suzihawk said:
In or out of context, it doesn't change my opinion. I don't find Zimmerman very credible.

Serino was the officer that wanted Zimmerman arrested on manslaughter charges but was overruled by Chief Lee and SA Wolfinger - both of which stepped down. I wonder why Serino felt compelled to change his story?
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I've read this stated in articles without named sources, and I've seen Wolfinger flat deny it, would you have a link for the bolded please? TIA
 
LambChop said:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...-wanted-Zimmerman-charged/UPI-41991332833400/
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From your source:
"Florida prosecutors overruled a police detective's recommendation to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter in the death Trayvon Martin, ABC News reported.

Chris Serino, the lead homicide detective on the case, recommended charging Zimmerman the night the neighborhood watch volunteer shot and killed Martin, an unarmed teenager, in a gated community in Sanford, Fla., ABC reported Tuesday, citing sources it did not name."

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012...witter-account

I think we have known that the homocide detective wanted to press charges the first night from the beginning. I don't think this is news we have not heard before. jmo
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Yet, we were told differently by LE and Serino himself, to no avail. People will believe what they want to believe.

Your second link is the same. This story came from ABC via Tracy Martin, not anyone in law enforcement, FBI, Special Prosecutor, etc.,.
 
vlpate said:
I've read this stated in articles without named sources, and I've seen Wolfinger flat deny it, would you have a link for the bolded please? TIA
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There were many reports of this in late March. Of course he denied! :rolleyes:

Was this before or after he stepped down from the case? I know it was before he suddenly decided not to run for re-election. I'm anxious to see what the DOJ uncovers.
 
suzihawk said:
There were many reports of this in late March. Of course he denied! :rolleyes:

Was this before or after he stepped down from the case? I know it was before he suddenly decided not to run for re-election. I'm anxious to see what the DOJ uncovers.
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I think the investigation into the SPD is still ongoing, is it not? Amazing because I think that homocide detective still has his job. I don't believe anyone has asked him to step down seeing that the DA's investigator stated GZ's stories are inconsistent.

I also have to wonder why Tracy would lie about the homocide detective telling him he wanted to press charges against GZ when that very thing has now happened. I believe this detective did exactly what he was told to do.

My husband told me once he was asked to go to the "club" after work for a couple of drinks with the other "in" officers, detectives, supervisors. He declined telling this person he was not a drinker and preferred to go home after work to relax. This superior officer turned to him and said, "You'll never make detective that way." My husband's answer was "so be it." He did make detective but only because they changed Chiefs and the new one did not parttake in the clubbing. There are a lot of politics within the police departments everywhere. jmo
 
vlpate said:
From your source:
"Florida prosecutors overruled a police detective's recommendation to charge George Zimmerman with manslaughter in the death Trayvon Martin, ABC News reported.

Chris Serino, the lead homicide detective on the case, recommended charging Zimmerman the night the neighborhood watch volunteer shot and killed Martin, an unarmed teenager, in a gated community in Sanford, Fla., ABC reported Tuesday, citing sources it did not name."



Yet, we were told differently by LE and Serino himself, to no avail. People will believe what they want to believe.
Your second link is the same. This story came from ABC via Tracy Martin, not anyone in law enforcement, FBI, Special Prosecutor, etc.,.
Click to expand...

Obviously the Chief felt this way, too. What was the point of having the homicide detective at the news conference? The Chief could have handed that press conference all by himself. No reason to take a detective away from his duties. Or was it to cover up what was already out there? We shall see. At some point Detective Serino will have to testify. jmo
 
AJ Noiter said:
I think we'd have to get a lawyer in here to say for sure, but it is my understanding that she can testify to Mr. Martin's words but not the events. For example, I don't believe she'd be allowed to say "the stranger showed up again" because she would not be quoting Mr. Martin. Being an "ear witness" she can't state whether the "stranger showed up" or Mr. Martin went up to the stranger.

Again, my understanding and I'm probably wrong.
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There is a lawyer thread up in the sticky threads. Why not ask your legal questions up there? When one of the resident lawyers sees a post up there, they will answer and then you can link their answer in the proper thread. :angel:
 
AngelWings444 said:
There wasn't a challenger for the election. Nobody else could have won the election, as nobody challenged AC. An election is a couple years in the making, not a couple of months.

Reasonable doubt is already formed in people's mind, from a bond hearing?? Our justice system is in severe trouble, if that is the case. If "we" are to wait for evidence to convict GZ, then we certainly should allow the State to put on their case, or at least release SOME documents to believe he is not culpable, in any manner, for Trayvon's death. My goodness...

ETA: Will anyone here change their mind if the documents lean towards GZ being guilty? I wonder...
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Lean towards - no, but if they prove beyond a reasonable doubt, I would have no problem finding him guilty. I have said that from the beginning.
 
LambChop said:
Obviously the Chief felt this way, too. What was the point of having the homicide detective at the news conference? The Chief could have handed that press conference all by himself. No reason to take a detective away from his duties. Or was it to cover up what was already out there? We shall see. At some point Detective Serino will have to testify. jmo
Click to expand...

ABC has made many, many, misleading statements based on what Crump and Tracy Martin have told them, so why would I believe this report? The Chief, Serino himself, and Wolfinger all said they didn't have enough probable cause to arrest GZ. Even if Serino did want to arrest him that night, an investigation by SPD changed his mind. JMO
 
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