POI in Lindsey's Case

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JenniferO said:
It can be both.

In our area if you call the medics.. the volunteer firemen/paramedics show up. In my town you get a medic unit. An ambulance can be called if you are in need of a ride to the hospital. I'm not sure how it works in Districts 5 and 13.

And I know if someone is at one facility (say a clinic, hospital, nursing home etc) and needs to be transported to another facility and it's not safe to travel by personal car.. an ambulance and crew will be called to transport them.
An example. My mom was hospitalized in the city of Aberdeen and needed to be transported from there to a hospital in Olympia (about 70 miles away). Several fire districts were contacted to see who was available. The closest one was a unit out of McCleary so they are the ones who transported my mother. So the transports don't even have to be in the same district that the ambulances are in.

hopefully that all makes sense..
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It does thanks!

Just thinking, if you were going to abduct a child at 9:25 (using the last verified siting of Lindsey walking). Then he shows up at the search for her around 12:30 AM and in between he goes on an ambulance call out, that's a pretty tight timeline. Not to mention getting rid of any potential evidence, cleaning up before he showed up to search for her.

It makes me wonder if he took Lindsey somewhere and held her, then came back later?
 
Knox said:
Exactly and the reason why I am not too concerned about the time on the video being different.

He initially told the cops and tried to supply written documentation that he was at a class in Belfair when Lindsey disappeared. He wanted to place himself FAR, away from McCleary until AFTER she went missing and he showed up by Melissa's house. Sorry, but we looked at this guy well over a year ago and I truly believe he's the one. Pretty sure LE knows it too ...
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It would be unlikely he could get from his class in Belfair to McCleary by 8:40 or even 9:15 if he left at 8:15.
 
Has anyone seen anything from LE confirming he was actually at that class? I see where he said it, provided a "certificate" and LE found out that the class was over at 8:15pm. But how do we know if he actually even attended on June 26. I haven't seen where LE has said that he was in fact there.

And Knox, I agree.. tight timeline. I just wonder if, since neither chief knows details about the ambulance run that night.. if maybe it was before Lindsey went missing. Earlier in the evening. Maybe he stopped at Mikes after the ambulance run on his way back to the station to get his car.
 
He could have been at the class even and grabbed his certificate and left during a break. He told LE class got out at 9 (because it was scheduled to) and since he left earlier than everyone else he wasn't aware they actually let out at 8:15. Bummer for him.

So if the timestamp is truly 8:40, he may have seen Lindsey leaving the video store. Remember Lindsey then went home and showered and re-dressed in her two piece mis-matched bathing suit under her clothes and then walked over to KK's. Was the altercation with her brother near the jewelry store? And who was it again that sent JB home?
 
ok, I was just doing dishes and my brain won't shut off.

A semi-edited quote from the Vidette article
"Also a volunteer for Mason County Fire District 13, the man did respond to an emergency medical services call the night Lindsey disappeared, Shumate said. The districts chief, Mike R* said he didn't think the EMS response that night was for Fire District 13 but wasn't completely sure"
Chief Dan P* said he thought it was for Fire District 5 but he also wasn't completely sure".


So.. umm how is anyone "sure" that Tim actually made an ambulance run that night? Neither district remembers if it was for theirs or not.. how can they say that yes, he did go out on a run.
Shouldn't there be a record of some sort of it? Can't the chiefs go back in their books and see?

*oh and I edited to add this: I know Chief P*. He's a real life friend and he became chief of FD 5 just recently.. so I can understand why he doesn't know if Tim was on a run that night for his district.

What I don't understand is how they know Tim was.. yet they don't know which district it was for. Whose word are the taking on where he was that night? Tims? Or is there concrete evidence that he was on a run that night. AND if there was concrete evidence to that.. I don't think LE would be looking at Tim so closely. MOO
 
just found this article (says no new leads generated from speaking with women.. but I remain hopeful!)

After releasing the footage, investigators identified and interviewed the two women in the video. Scott added that the women have not given investigators new evidence or leads.

In an interview with KIRO-TV, the person of interest has denied involvement in Lindsey’s disappearance. He is not being identified because he has not been charged with a crime.

Among the hundreds of items seized during the October search of the man’s properties were:

• “Handwritten notes re: missing child.”

• Computers.

• One printed map and a handwritten map.

Jeremy Pawloski: 360-754-5445


Read more here: http://www.theolympian.com/2012/02/16/1993389/women-unable-to-aid-detectives.html#storylink=cpy
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another article that is new:

Hartman denies having anything to do with the disappearance, but newly-released documents show that investigators found an "apparent fingernail from passenger side of car," "ropes and straps," "numerous computers and computer storage devices," a "pink sheet with unknown stains," a "brown duffle bag with assumed human hair" and "handwritten notes regarding missing child."

Detectives are still waiting for DNA results to come back on those items.

"Certainly if we had found evidence that clearly linked to Lindsey's disappearance in this investigation, we would have acted on it by now," said Grays Harbor County undersheriff Rick Scott.
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He told police he wasn't in town during the hours that Baum disappeared, but newly obtained convenience store surveillance camera footage shows Hartman in McCleary at exactly the time of the disappearance.

"I honestly don't remember coming down here that night," Hartman said. "I mean, if they have a picture of me being there, i am not arguing with them, i must have come down. I just don't remember being here."

Police and FBI officials have so far not been able to link the evidence to Baum's disappearance.
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...riiiiiight dude...

http://www.komonews.com/news/New-evidence-surfaces-in-Baum-disappearance-139486533.html
 
Jennifer, from what you posted upstream it sounds like they have more investigative leads on him than just what they seized (re: delay of release of the video)..

but now MY brain won't shut off...

why would they delay releasing the cctv footage as an investigative tactic? Did they want to wait until they were more confident in their case as they virtually named him a POI at the same time...?

one can only hope
 
It is strange there are no concrete records kept about the ambulance run. I would think the county and or the city would want to have clear records in case of any future legal hassles. There are many cases where lawyers implicate EMT's and or drivers in medical complaints and civil cases. People have medical crisis during ambulance runs all of the time and there needs to be records kept to protect the EMT's and the drivers from being accused or sued for being at fault or for contributing to the crisis.
 
katydid23 said:
It is strange there are no concrete records kept about the ambulance run. I would think the county and or the city would want to have clear records in case of any future legal hassles. There are many cases where lawyers implicate EMT's and or drivers in medical complaints and civil cases. People have medical crisis during ambulance runs all of the time and there needs to be records kept to protect the EMT's and the drivers from being accused or sued for being at fault or for contributing to the crisis.
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The only thing I can think of is LE has confirmed this to be another lie and they are once again "withholding the info for investigative purposes". MOO
 
Could the Vidette be wrong in the descrepency of the video time. This kinda puts a wrench in things IMO.
 
seventeenseconds said:
Could the Vidette be wrong in the descrepency of the video time. This kinda puts a wrench in things IMO.
Click to expand...

Well anything is possible when dealing with the media. But I don't know how someone could screw up that much of a quote or misunderstand what Sgt Shumate had said.
 
Knox said:
48 Minutes according to mapquest. So if the class let out at 8:15, he must have driven directly to Mike's from there.
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Generally these maps base the time on the legal driving limit. So... if he was driving the legal speed limit he would have gotten to Mike's at 9:03 (providing he went directly there). I don't know what the speed limit is, but say it is 65 MPH (all freeway right?). But the video was supposedly taken about 8:40 p.m. That's a 23 minutes difference. He either left before 8:15 p.m. as someone suggested earlier (and that's why he didn't know the class was let out early) or he drove 90-100 miles an hour....

There is still an hour's difference (approximately) between the sighting at Mike's and the last sighting of Lindsey. So... is this when he went on the ambulance run? Where was it and how long did it take? Someone should have these records.

A quick call and he drives back into McCleary - passing Lindsey somewhere while she is walking. Then what - does he go get his own car or does he try to pick her up in the ambulance?

If he drove by Lindsey, while he was still in the ambulance - where would he have been coming from?

I need to go back an look at those maps. Is there any sighting of the ambulance on the video from Mike's that night - driving by or whatever, I wonder?

Salem
 
JenniferO said:
The only thing I can think of is LE has confirmed this to be another lie and they are once again "withholding the info for investigative purposes". MOO
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Aren't these kind of calls dispatched? They have to keep finite records of those types of calls for liability purposes. Very, very strange.

The only thing I can think is it was not an emergency call, but maybe something like moving a person to a convalescent home or the like. Still one would think there would be a record of a call.

Thinking he may have picked her up and given her a ride in an ambulance is even scarier. I asked this before and didn't get an answer. SarahC maybe you can help. Did Hartman park that ambulance at his jewelry store when he was on call and it was not in use?

Anyone know what the ambulance service is called?

ETA- http://www.cityofmccleary.com/vertical/Sites/%7B6900A7D9-59CE-4612-823A-FA3E5F25F431%7D/uploads/%7B5D693956-46CA-4506-81D3-F0C3DF77D8A2%7D.PDF

He wouldn't have been alone in the ambulance, who was with him?
 
nursebeeme said:
Jennifer, from what you posted upstream it sounds like they have more investigative leads on him than just what they seized (re: delay of release of the video)..

but now MY brain won't shut off...

why would they delay releasing the cctv footage as an investigative tactic? Did they want to wait until they were more confident in their case as they virtually named him a POI at the same time...?

one can only hope
Click to expand...

IMO, they questioned him first, then let him hang himself with denying he was even in town.
 
So if he is a volunteer FF/Ambulance driver - he has a scanner. I'm speculating his call was on the West side of McCleary and he picked Lindsey up in the ambulance. If he went on the call after being in Mike's - it was a quick call. Who was riding with him that night, and where does that person live? He could have ended up on Maple, dropping the other ambulance person off, saw Lindsey on his way back and snagged her.

If the time on the video is really 8:40 p.m. that means approx. 35 minutes elasped before the last time Lindsey was seen at 9:10ish per the person on their way to work. So.... he was at Mike's and had to get the call, get the ambulance or be picked up, say about 5 minutes for all that to take place. They drive to the call, 10 mins., do what they need to do, another 10 mins. and head back into town, final 10 mins. Drop off the other person 5 mins., come upon Lindsey at 9:10-9:15 p.m. Split second decision to pick her up.

This is all speculation on my part. I think the call was on the west side of town and the other person lived on the west side of town. And of course it all falls apart if TH didn't stay at the class until 8:15 p.m., but left earlier.

Salem
 
When I first learned that Lindsey Baum was missing in McCleary I looked to find out as much as I could. We travel to the Long Beach,WA several times a year. McCleary is the halfway point between Seattle and LongBeach.(SR 8 leads to SR 101 south Long Beach or north SR 101 to other Washington ocean beaches). I clearly can see in my mind the wooded area and the McCleary highway sign on SR 8. Such a peaceful quiet area it is sad for me to drive by there now. I hope that Lindsey will be found. This latest news is hopeful. But,why 5 months to determine DNA?

Whenever I read about Lindsey I think of Adre'Anna Jackson... another beautiful child snatched by a predator. I wanted so much for a different outcome for Lindsey. I have not posted on this thread very much. I had my heart broken by the kiddnaping and murder of Adre'Anna. I read everything posted about Lindsey. I would like to thank everyone for keeping us updated and let me just say again none of us here at Websleuths will allow Lindsey to be forgotten.
 
seventeenseconds said:
Could the Vidette be wrong in the descrepency of the video time. This kinda puts a wrench in things IMO.
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IMO, I don't think it puts a wrench into things, actually. It just changes up the possible scenarios a bit.

Certainly, if he was at Mike's at 9:20 pm that puts him VERY close to Lindsey's location on her walk home. But, even if the time stamp is wrong, that still puts him in McCleary. (It's not like he was shown still an hour away at 8:40 or 9:15.) Even from 8:40 he could have gone from Mike's to his store, which Lindsey still had to walk by to get home.

The biggest potential wrench I see now is the supposed "ambulance run" that no one can seem to verify. But I'm not convinced that's a wrench either. There should be a record somewhere. If there's no record, somebody messed up big time. And WHY/HOW? If there is a record, and it would have ruled him out, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.


Salem said:
A quick call and he drives back into McCleary - passing Lindsey somewhere while she is walking. Then what - does he go get his own car or does he try to pick her up in the ambulance?

If he drove by Lindsey, while he was still in the ambulance - where would he have been coming from?

I need to go back an look at those maps. Is there any sighting of the ambulance on the video from Mike's that night - driving by or whatever, I wonder?

Salem
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Respectfully snipped.

I'm also very curious about whether he was driving the ambulance or a personal vehicle.

Like Knox, I'm curious where TH would have gotten and/or parked the ambulance? The fire department, or his store/home, or ? JenO, do you know?
 
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