Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

Randal Graves said:

So Willie Jacobson's death has been ruled an accidental drowning. But they didn't even get the toxicology report back yet. The ignorance of the people reporting this shit disgusts me. For all they know his BAC was .40 and he had traces of barbituates in his blood- pretty much confirming an accidental drowning. Or maybe he was sober but had cyanide in his blood- pretty much confirming foul play. Nothing can be ruled out until the tox report comes back.

But I guess people like assuming it was an accident so they can sleep soundly at night.

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RG,

This just blows me away, but my brother died recently and it was ruled an accident even though tox screens were to take 12 weeks to complete! It involved a fall and a head injury in the home and he was alone, but believe me, my other brother and I have had moments where we've wondered if there was foul play. In the end, I have concluded not - that it was a freak accident - but typically, family members, who know the person, would have good intuition and many in these "drownings" aren't buying the accident rulings. I would be screaming from the roof tops if this were my beloved child.

Eve

fran said:

The Santa Barbara area, San Francisco, Long Beach, San Diego, all have huge colleges and this does NOT happen there.

Something sinister is going on here. That I am CERTAIN of. I haven't figured it out YET, but I'm still looking.

The first years these were concentrated more around the Great Lakes and this year they're in Southern States and Eastern States. Me thinks they're trying to trick LE.

JMHO
fran

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Omg, I had forgotten about SB! My sis lived there and I was always there. Places like that we'd drink to access because we'd walk everywhere. Same with SD.

ETA: I'm fondly recalling the days of $5 dollar pitchers of very strong margaritas and endless bowls of chips and salsa.

SuziQ said:

Thanks for the local input on alcohol consumption. And welcome to all new members. I can't keep up with you all!

I can only add my experience from the West Coast and of course it's been decades since I've been in the H/S and College crowd. When I lived in the NW, Alcohol was a big problem because basically due to the incliment weather, there was nothing else to do but drink. Especially in small towns on the coast. And in So Cal., it was basically hard to do because of law enforcement and those traps they set up forcing everyone to drive through. Makes you wonder if it's also not a different in laws and enforcement from state to state. I have family and friends in the midwest and South and it amazes me that when they visit they think nothing about heading to my car with an open beer in their hand. They claim it's ok where they live and I have to explain to them it's not here. I had a friend that grew up in La. and swears their are drive through mixed drink shacks like we have drive through coffee shacks here. I still think he's full of chit and I will welcome anyone who can prove him wrong. lol.

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Hi SuziQ!:blowkiss:

I was in Iowa City (U of I) last weekend and the streets were just filled with drunk students on Friday night! My friend and I (both alums) were shocked - we drank tons back in the late 70's early 80's, but we were inside the bars - we weren't moving in throngs on the streets. I know this to be true of Wis. schools too. So much wandering around outside while trashed! Still, I was observing and never saw one person alone -all were in groups of varying sizes. These killer/s have to be stunning or drugging the victims to get them alone (my vote) or they are lurking on the perimeters of the party locations
waiting for someone to be walking home alone. When I attended law school in IN it was pefectly legal to have/drink an alcoholic beverage in a car while driving as long as you weren't intoxicated. LOL.

Eve

Randal Graves said:

So Willie Jacobson's death has been ruled an accidental drowning. But they didn't even get the toxicology report back yet. The ignorance of the people reporting this shit disgusts me. For all they know his BAC was .40 and he had traces of barbituates in his blood- pretty much confirming an accidental drowning. Or maybe he was sober but had cyanide in his blood- pretty much confirming foul play. Nothing can be ruled out until the tox report comes back.

But I guess people like assuming it was an accident so they can sleep soundly at night.

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The latest article I saw was on Friday and it says the investigation is ongoing.

As unlikely as it sounds, the Trane theory (or something similar) might very well provide a connection. It would at least explain why other heavy-drinking party schools (such as Univ of Colo or Berkeley) aren't included, or why other schools in the midwest (such as KSU) don't appear to be involved.

I think the locations of the incidents have to be a major factor.
What other common denominators do the locations have?

On a separate note, regarding ckhagen's desire to see the toxicology report, is that something that can be obtained through the FOIA?

Randal Graves said:

So Willie Jacobson's death has been ruled an accidental drowning. But they didn't even get the toxicology report back yet. The ignorance of the people reporting this shit disgusts me. For all they know his BAC was .40 and he had traces of barbituates in his blood- pretty much confirming an accidental drowning. Or maybe he was sober but had cyanide in his blood- pretty much confirming foul play. Nothing can be ruled out until the tox report comes back.

But I guess people like assuming it was an accident so they can sleep soundly at night.

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Interesting that they already have basically closed the case with some of the info still not in..tox screens. Pretty much what happened in all these cases.

What is the talk around campus? Are people scared, confused, or just taking what they hear from LE as the Truth?

emmcee said:

I think the locations of the incidents have to be a major factor.
What other common denominators do the locations have?

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Construction?

dairybest said:

Fran,

Now that I am reading further in the threads, I see that you originally echoed the same geographic concern WAY back there. Have you thought any further about it or uncovered anything else?

~db

P.S. I apologize for the mess I made in Post # 12. Posting is obviously not one of the things I do best!

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I saw your post after I posted. Oh, don't aplogize for anything, LOL. I've been here for ages and still don't know how to use 1/2 the functions.

I have company from out of town so haven't been able to spend too much time on this. But I do notice that they have changed the target areas, a lot!

They're moving away from the Great Lakes and traveling the South and Eastern portion. But they're also hitting Mi 1, Pa 1, Ia 1, and so on. Not sure yet how it works. Two, maybe three groups.

Southern gang
On 11/01/07, Justine Gaines, Duluth, Ga, and next possible 11/09/07, Kyle Fleischman, Charlotte, NC

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/duluth+ga/charlotte+nc/


I have another possibility in Fl, 01/27/08, Tim Chipley, Carrollwood, Fl, from NC.

Another straight shot, double 'missing dated,' 11/09/07, indicates to ME there's at least two groups.


http://www.mapquest.com/maps/Charlotte+NC/tampa+fl/


Eastern gang
IF you take, say 11/09/07, Matt LaCrosse, Bangor, Maine, and next possible connections, 11/30/07, James DeVine, Manhattan, NY,

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/bangor++me/manhattan+ny/

Almost a straight shot.

Then from NY, to 12/07/07 Gabriel Smith, Ludington, Mi.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/manhattan+ny/Ludington+mi/


Basically what you see are straight roadway drives from one to the other. I'm not clear if it's two or three groups, or more?? You could take it south, east, midwest, it all could fit, IMO. OR.......two groups which would mean the East is combined with the midWest, and very busy.

This is all just speculation, of course.

I liked the way everyone was discussing the other night with the possibility of being connected to the monestary, my thinking of possibilities. ALSO, they need to be sure and analyze ALL of, especially the students computers and cell phones. LINKS!? Possible.

Specific targets? Maybe some! Something like Geocaching? The 'happy face' is the proof it was the participant?

Cell phones found NOT with the bodies. The student they're looking for now, they were trying to find him by his cell phone, but they said it must be OFF.

PS.......ONE common thing I found with THREE is one was from Ireland, one had three or more Irish tatoos, and another was pictured in a hat with an Irish clover....coincidence? or the fact they are PERHAPS Catholic Irish?

PPS......What about a priest? Could these students and young people be FORMER victims and had never told anyone???????hhmmmmmmmmmm..................

I'm pretty familiar with west coast universities and There are definitly quite a few, mostly north of San Francisco, that have significant bodies of water on or near campus. I can't believe there is that much less heavy drinking; California at least ,very strictly enforces age 21 and there are restrictions on drikning establishments within a mile of campus. This would mean that more drinking is done in homes/residences/ parties and less in bars. There may be shorter walks home. Also, the weather, even in the Seattle area, in milder than the mid-west. It is rarely below freezing so a fall in the water would be less likely fatal.

This raises the big question I have had: in warmer areas, or during warmer months, do drunken students "fall" into bodies of water at a clip that is comparable to the wintertime occuances in the upper mid-west? In other words, is it the extremely cold water/weather that makes a not particulaly unusual mishap fatal?

I can't imagine being so drunk that I could fall of a bridge or otherwise end up in water while walking home on a city street but I don't doubt it can happen. Some of these case seem to involve young men who were alone when they entered the water. Is anyone aware of any information as to how common these "misadventures" are? Most of the time, it wouldn't be reported to any authorities, It would only be noticed by dorm-mates or passerbys or joked about during future bull sessions.

. . .

I liked the way everyone was discussing the other night with the possibility of being connected to the monestary . . .

. . .

PS.......ONE common thing I found with THREE is one was from Ireland, one had three or more Irish tatoos, and another was pictured in a hat with an Irish clover....coincidence? or the fact they are PERHAPS Catholic Irish?

PPS......What about a priest? Could these students and young people be FORMER victims and had never told anyone???????hhmmmmmmmmmm..................

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Great comments. I think the Monks need to stay under consideration. I had thought they might be involved because of "envy" but your last comment here might be more appropriate.

Specific targets? Maybe some! Something like Geocaching? The 'happy face' is the proof it was the participant?

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Now HERE is another very interesting thought. Geocaching is becoming a pretty popular hobby.

Not only the 'happy face' proofs, but also the numbers involved with the latitudes and longitudes where the bodies were found (or put into the water) might turn something up.

hmmmm

While my daughter attened school in San Diego, I know of one student who committed suicide (in his home) and one who drowned while surfing (there were witnesses during the day).

NOT ONE mysterious disappearance and then showed up drowned. Believe me, those students knew how to drink! AND, they were within walking distance to the Pacific Ocean from campus. IF this was so common, it would be happening there, believe me. The same for Santa Barabara!

IIRC, the biggest danger in the San Diego area is going across the border and getting yourself arrested! The San Diego students get a LOT of lectures about that. But, I also don't recall any of those students going 'missing,' from a night of drinking in Mexico. Although now, I would HIGHLY discourage it as they are having MANY problems there, with gun battles in the streets.

I know there's one student, can't recall the name right now, recently went missing from campus in San Francisco. He's not been located. But, that is ONE case in how many years compared to these other, 'mysterious drownings and disappearances?'

IMHO, there is something sinister here. Maybe not involving ALL the disappearances and drownings, but a significant amount.

JMHO
fran

PS.....The water temperature in the Pacific Ocean drops sigificant enough to cause hyperthermia, like the Great Lakes and East Coast. It may not be AS cold, but the same sort of thing could happen here,...........but does NOT...fran

emmcee said:

Now HERE is another very interesting thought. Geocaching is becoming a pretty popular hobby.

Not only the 'happy face' proofs, but also the numbers involved with the latitudes and longitudes where the bodies were found (or put into the water) might turn something up.

hmmmm

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FWIW, Joseph Duncan participated in geocaching. Ehh, he also participated in scuba diving. Although he lived in North Dakota, he traveled to Minnesota to go scuba diving (also to commit lude acts). I am NOT saying he's involved in THIS CASE, but just that the mentality of a serial killer, molester, does this sort of thing. Games, water, etc.

Another thing he did (Duncan) was make a computer game where he didn't know what to do with the conquered, so he destroyed (ie killed them), which doctors have said that's the same mind set he used with his victims.

Conquer, kill 'em. {spooky}

JMHO
fran

http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/Articles/News/2008/05/05/24309/

Although the 1998 drowning of an Ohio University freshman is similar to a string of deaths being investigated as murders by private investigators, local police aren’t sure if there’s any connection at all.
The death of Keith Noble Jr. of Worthington, Ohio, shares some similarities with a string of drownings in the Great Lakes region that two retired police detectives feel are the work of a serial killer, said Athens Police Department Lt. David Williams. But those investigators have yet to contact Athens police, he added.
“I’d like to get together and compare notes with them,” said Williams, the lead investigator in the Noble case. (more at link)

Although some LE agencies are wanting to talk to Gannon and Duarte, it seems none of them are succesful at being able to get in contact with them.

http://media.www.spectatornews.com/...ives.Link.Deaths.Serial.Killers-3364006.shtml

(snip)
Many of those students attended universities in Minnesota and Wisconsin, including two UW-Eau Claire students and a visiting Minnesotan. Craig Burrows, Michael Nolls and Joshua Snell were all included on Gannon's list of Midwestern students possibly murdered and left in bodies of water.

However, Eau Claire Police Chief Jerry Matysik doesn't believe any foul play was involved in the three Eau Claire drownings.

Well, I can tell you one thing Suzi...my daughter has reported that the students out at her school in Wisconsin are fed up with the ineptitude of LE (me, too!). She actually said she's lucky to be graduating this month 'cause it's time to get out of Dodge.

Oh, and welcome to all new posters.

Eve, I'm sorry for your loss.

RR0004 said:

Oh, and welcome to all new posters.

Eve, I'm sorry for your loss.

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Thank you RR. My son has said the same thing as your daughter has. Although I think he intends to stay in school quite awhile (grad or med), somewhere. I'm thinking in a safe bubble somewhere if I could choose.

Eve

SuziQ said:

Although some LE agencies are wanting to talk to Gannon and Duarte, it seems none of them are succesful at being able to get in contact with them.

http://media.www.spectatornews.com/...ives.Link.Deaths.Serial.Killers-3364006.shtml

(snip)
Many of those students attended universities in Minnesota and Wisconsin, including two UW-Eau Claire students and a visiting Minnesotan. Craig Burrows, Michael Nolls and Joshua Snell were all included on Gannon's list of Midwestern students possibly murdered and left in bodies of water.

However, Eau Claire Police Chief Jerry Matysik doesn't believe any foul play was involved in the three Eau Claire drownings.

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He seriously is going to regret the quote about no foul play absent trauma- what an inept thig to say- watch a CSI for the love of Pete

Blink34 said:

He seriously is going to regret the quote about no foul play absent trauma- what an inept thig to say- watch a CSI for the love of Pete

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Lacrosse PD is just as adamant. Rudely so.

ok, call me crazy, but I am going to put this young man as a possible victim in CA, where there has not been any, you will see why-
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/williams-body-death-2005804-police-diego

Dane Chandler Williams
Date Missing: 1/26/08
Date Found 1/29/08

COD: Undetermined
Tox: booze, valium (parents said no prescription) And - quinine? None of which killed him. Had small cuts all over his body
It's mho, that this could be an evolution of our vic profile. He was in water, but found in the alley, dumped there. Let me know your thoughts.