10-12 shots in the garage to kill Teresa Halbach and blood splatter

[Sinsaint]

what do you think would cause the spatter than? Could it have just been TH being carried in or out, and whipping her head around, because her hair was bloody, would it cause that kind of spatter?

Or could it have been splatter from a stabbing type motion? the object coming back with blood on it causing spatter.

****she was missing a tool from her tool kit in her SUV. I remember reading that when they were searching the approx. 4000 cars, the first day, they were looking for her, the 2nd day, they were looking for other clues, ex. license plates, tool that was missing.

On that note.... what tool kit? I wonder if it was photographed or swabbed for *sweat*

I only saw two pictures of the back door. Neither pictures had HVS. I saw drips that had an upward to downward flow pattern (blood hit the uppermost area and ran straight down). What I saw looked like a drip pattern. The wound was above the surface it hit and wasn't in a fast motion when it was falling.

Okay... We all know she had a head wound, most likely gunshot. Facing the back of the SUV the blood was found on the right side. The SUV door was a swing type with it opening to the right. She has some type of head wound that is bleeding/dripping. The person picks her up to place her in the back with her head to the right side. Her blood simply dripped down from the head wound onto the door.

 

[Sinsaint]

How would a wound drip on that door?

It's not difficult. The wound is anywhere above the point it hits and then follows gravity downward. Nothing indicates the blood was flying left or right from the stationary door. All anyone had to do was pick her up. At her uppermost position the blood on her head or hair flings toward the door. Or he picked her body up but she was slipping. He gave her body an extra umpf to situate her body better and in doing so her head or hair dripped blood onto the door.

 

[MysticJynx]

I only saw two pictures of the back door. Neither pictures had HVS. I saw drips that had an upward to downward flow pattern (blood hit the uppermost area and ran straight down). What I saw looked like a drip pattern. The wound was above the surface it hit and wasn't in a fast motion when it was falling.

Okay... We all know she had a head wound, most likely gunshot. Facing the back of the SUV the blood was found on the right side. The SUV door was a swing type with it opening to the right. She has some type of head wound that is bleeding/dripping. The person picks her up to place her in the back with her head to the right side. Her blood simply dripped down from the head wound onto the door.

I think its cast off blood.
Cast-off — results when an object swung in an arc flings blood onto nearby surfaces. This occurs when an assailant swings the bloodstained object back before inflicting another blow. Analysts can tell the direction of the impacting object by the shape of the spatter (tails point in the direction of motion). Counting the arcs can also show the minimum number of blows delivered.

from...
Blunt force injuries (hitting or beating) — objects inflicting this type of injury are usually larger, such as a bat or hammer. If the object impacts liquid blood, the larger surface area will collect more blood, producing drops of varying sizes.

http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/simplified-guide-to-bloodstain-pattern-analysis.html

 

[Alchemist]

When was the body put in the car; if they carried the body to the garage and then to the burn pit?

 

[Madeleine74]

How did TH's blood and hair get in the trunk area if she wasn't in the back of her vehicle?

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[Sinsaint]

When was the body put in the car; if they carried the body to the garage and then to the burn pit?

Dassey, after much prompting, guessed that Teresa was carried from the trailer and placed into the back of the SUV to take her to the pond. Avery then decided to pull her out of the SUV, shoot her ten or twelve times and then took her to the fire pit to burn her.

 

[missy1974]

Dassey, after much prompting, guessed that Teresa was carried from the trailer and placed into the back of the SUV to take her to the pond. Avery then decided to pull her out of the SUV, shoot her ten or twelve times and then took her to the fire pit to burn her.

And then they cleaned up and he was home by 10 because it was a school night.
:banghead:

 

[Limaes]

SA's garage - unable to date these photos

 

[Sustained]

And then they cleaned up and he was home by 10 because it was a school night.
:banghead:

And LE ripped apart thousands of cars in the salvage yard looking for evidence but didn't empty a simple garage and didn't find a bullet fragment until March '06 ???

 

[missy1974]

I recognize some of those photo's as being exhibit photo's...
the 2nd one is exhibit 227 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-227-Garage-and-Door.jpg
the 3rd one is 238 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-238-Garage-Floor-Center.jpg
the 5th one (last one) is exhibit 46 http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/exhibit-46-garage-door-open.jpg

The last one, with the red car was taken during the March 2006 search.

I don't see any of the photo's with the snowmobile here http://www.stevenaverycase.org/photos/ It doesn't mean they weren't admitted into evidence, but I would be interested if they were now.

Looking at these photo's.... the first thing I noticed was the white circles behind the snowmobile.... but they are not in the photo's where the snowmobile is removed, the 2nd and 3rd photo's above. That is kinda weird to me. You can still see them in the March 2006 photo too.

 

[missy1974]

I went looking for information about the snowmobile (which I have not really found yet), just references to it being moved or being there at one point. I found this and thought it was interesting.

Day 9 pg 65 Deputy Daniel Kucharski testimony

Q. And you're down on your hands and knees, or squatting or something, in order to find these little bloodstains, aren't you?

A. The bloodstains were pretty evident. No one --

Q. Well, you get down --

A. -- was down on their hands and knees --

Q. You get down in a squat position --

COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, you're going to have to talk one at a time. No one was down on their hands and knees?

A. Not that I saw, it was a dirty floor.


So the stains were evident... no one tried to clean them up, remove them. These did not match TH.

And it was a dirty floor. But I thought SA spent hours/days cleaning?

 

[Madeleine74]

The "cleanup" area was a approximately a 4' x 5' area of the floor (or maybe a smaller area). It wasn't the whole garage, nor did anyone ever say it was the whole garage, nor did anyone say there was any cleanup that lasted days or even one entire day. BD said he was called over by SA to help clean an area of the garage floor the evening of Oct 31. BD later produced his own pants that had bleach stains on them.

Nor did LE "rip apart thousands of cars." They used teams which also included several SAR/cadaver dogs to check each car for any possible sign of a body. Makes sense. You find the victim's vehicle in a large salvage lot, you don't see the victim, one cadaver dog 'hit' on the victim's vehicle at the site, you go looking on the lot and bring cadaver dogs to help. Dogs were also sent to search the buildings on the property. Again, looking for TH.

Really, why the need to nuance the facts of the case and insert hyperbole into what was actually testified to? How does exaggerating facts of the case help SA?

 

[Sustained]

The "cleanup" area was a approximately a 4' x 5' area of the floor (or maybe a smaller area). It wasn't the whole garage, nor did anyone ever say it was the whole garage, nor did anyone say there was any cleanup that lasted days or even one entire day. BD said he was called over by SA to help clean an area of the garage floor the evening of Oct 31. BD later produced his own pants that had bleach stains on them.

Nor did LE "rip apart thousands of cars." They used teams which also included several SAR/cadaver dogs to check each car for any possible sign of a body. Makes sense. You find the victim's vehicle in a large salvage lot, you don't see the victim, one cadaver dog 'hit' on the victim's vehicle at the site, you go looking on the lot and bring cadaver dogs to help. Dogs were also sent to search the buildings on the property. Again, looking for TH.

Really, why the need to nuance the facts of the case and insert hyperbole into what was actually testified to? How does exaggerating facts of the case help SA?

Figure of speech Madeleine ... why would LE not remove the garage contents and search the garage in its entirety for evidence in a similar way they did the trailer ? In the November 7-10th timeframe ?

 

[Limaes]

Figure of speech Madeleine ... why would LE not remove the garage contents and search the garage in its entirety for evidence in a similar way they did the trailer ? In the November 7-10th timeframe ?

They didn't know how she died at that early stage. BD was the one who gave them the information to go back and do a thorough search of the garage.

Are you saying they should have solved her murder between Nov 7 - 10?

 

[Sustained]

They didn't know how she died at that early stage. BD was the one who gave them the information to go back and do a thorough search of the garage.

Are you saying they should have solved her murder between Nov 7 - 10?

If they didn't know how she died at that point, why did they exclude the garage as a possible location for evidence ? Especially since they searched the trailer multiple times ... any property belonging to SA should have been fair game.

 

[missy1974]

The "stain" was found in November. If they thought it was a cleaned up human blood stain, they should have cleared out that garage and checked everywhere and everything IMO Especially considering they had 11 casings too.... I would think they would have wanted to check everything. *shrug*

They shouldn't have needed BD to justify that... well, maybe they did in March 2006 so they could get another search warrant, but they had enough information in November 2005 IMO and should have done a more thorough search then.

 

[Limaes]

If they didn't know how she died at that point, why did they exclude the garage as a possible location for evidence ? Especially since they searched the trailer multiple times ... any property belonging to SA should have been fair game.

She was last seen walking towards his trailer, not his garage. She was never seen alive again. Logic dictates that the trailer was a good place to start.

I don't believe they excluded the garage as a possible location for evidence. They didn't have evidence to include it as a probable location...until BD told them.

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[Limaes]

The "stain" was found in November. If they thought it was a cleaned up human blood stain, they should have cleared out that garage and checked everywhere and everything IMO Especially considering they had 11 casings too.... I would think they would have wanted to check everything. *shrug*

They shouldn't have needed BD to justify that... well, maybe they did in March 2006 so they could get another search warrant, but they had enough information in November 2005 IMO and should have done a more thorough search then.

What evidence did they have in Nov 2005 that would lead them to conclude Teresa expired in the garage?

 

[Sustained]

What evidence did they have in Nov 2005 that would lead them to conclude Teresa expired in the garage?

What evidence did they have in Nov 2005 that would have led them to conclude Teresa expired in SA's trailer ?

 

[Sustained]

She was last seen walking towards his trailer, not his garage. She was never seen alive again. Logic dictates that the trailer was a good place to start.

I don't believe they excluded the garage as a possible location for evidence. They didn't have evidence to include it as a probable location...until BD told them.

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Who testified that TH was walking toward SA's trailer ? Or did that come from BD ?