11 years ago this night...

[JMO8778]

Glad that I could help you with that "tic mark"...I am RDI all the way. Right, if she had of been TRULY kidnapped....they wouldn't have hesitated to wake Burke up, to question him...instead of just "letting him sleep"...I guess he needed his rest. Patsy: "John...JonBenét has been kidnapped...What should we DO? Should we wake up Burke to see if he heard or saw ANYTHING? " John: " Wake Burke up? Are you kidding? Nahhh....he is a growing boy, he needs his rest. I am sure that he is very tired from all the festivities, and last night's party. No, we just need to let him sleep". DUHHHHH

..it's not just that,I think they would have walked all the way into his room and woke him up to see if he was ok...let's see...sister KN...maybe the intruder(s) hit BR on the head to knock him out first so he wouldn't see or hear anything??? Maybe they suffocated him?? Perhaps he's injured or dead ??? I just can't buy they peeked in on him and decided all was ok.I doubt they would have even been able to tell if he was breathing or not just by doing that.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Exactly, he could have been lying there dead - he could have also been strangled to death, but still left in his bed. JR claims he didn't see the cord around JonBenet's neck when he picked her up...maybe there might have been a cord around Burke's neck and the Rs just didn't see it because all they did was open the door and peek and then leave to tend to themselves (it's almost like "Burke'll be fine...he has a Nintendo 64 now, and we ignore him to focus on ourselves and plans for JonBenet to win Miss America all the time anyway - he likes it better when we don't even try to involve him.")

Every single night before bed, I go in and visually check my kids to make sure they're okay...and that's without finding a ransom note.

There is absolutely no way on Earth that I wouldn't awaken my kids immediately and ask pointed questions if I woke up to a ransom note and my youngest missing from bed...and I don't believe that the Rs wouldn't have done the same. I also don't believe that they would have allowed him to go anywhere without them or that they wouldn't have gone to get him straight away if this had been a real kidnapping/murder.

 

[JMO8778]

Exactly, he could have been lying there dead - he could have also been strangled to death, but still left in his bed. JR claims he didn't see the cord around JonBenet's neck when he picked her up...maybe there might have been a cord around Burke's neck and the Rs just didn't see it because all they did was open the door and peek and then leave to tend to themselves (it's almost like "Burke'll be fine...he has a Nintendo 64 now, and we ignore him to focus on ourselves and plans for JonBenet to win Miss America all the time anyway - he likes it better when we don't even try to involve him.")

Every single night before bed, I go in and visually check my kids to make sure they're okay...and that's without finding a ransom note.

There is absolutely no way on Earth that I wouldn't awaken my kids immediately and ask pointed questions if I woke up to a ransom note and my youngest missing from bed...and I don't believe that the Rs wouldn't have done the same. I also don't believe that they would have allowed him to go anywhere without them or that they wouldn't have gone to get him straight away if this had been a real kidnapping/murder.

yes and Patsy esp. would have been hysterical...'Where's BR?!!! Go get him !! We must keep him nearby !!!!!!!!!!'
Instead,Melinda's fiance says she was standing in the front yard w. her coat and fur boots on.Doesn't sound too hysterical to me.

 

[Blondieskatz]

If PR had screamed for JR like she stated when she realized JBR had been kidnapped it should have woke up Burke. I gotta tell you...that is one strange house.
An intruder can quitely break in, go right up the stairs, kidnapp a child, feed her pineapple in the kitchen, take her to the basement and kill her and then sit down and calmly write a ransom note with a pen and paper from the house. Oh, and then leave the note on the stairs that PR will come down the next morning to find, then she screams for her husband (who is a floor up). He hears her, comes running, but the son on the same floor sleeps soundly. Does that about cover it?

Gayla

 

[Ames]

..it's not just that,I think they would have walked all the way into his room and woke him up to see if he was ok...let's see...sister KN...maybe the intruder(s) hit BR on the head to knock him out first so he wouldn't see or hear anything??? Maybe they suffocated him?? Perhaps he's injured or dead ??? I just can't buy they peeked in on him and decided all was ok.I doubt they would have even been able to tell if he was breathing or not just by doing that.

This is true...the "killer" could have put a pillow over his face and suffocated him, and he would have just LOOKED like he was sleeping...and the "killer" could have also been hiding under Burkes bed, or in the closet. They just didn't do enough, as far as Burke was concerned. So, there are THREE reasons now, thanks to you...that I can think of...that they should have gone into Burke's room...instead of just "peeking" in on him.
1) To check on him, make sure he was okay...check to see if he is breathing.
2) To wake him up and ask him if he saw or heard anything.
3) To get him the heck out of that room, in case the "intruder" was hiding in there somewhere.
They did NONE of the above.

 

[DeeDee249]

Pretty much. Also, the "intruder" soooo quietly puts a suitcase up against a basement wall and, spider-man-like, climbed UP the wall and squeezed out a small window, moving a heavy metal grate back in place without anyone hearing that amd without being seen and then using his spider-man powers, re-spins the spider web that was found intact across the grate the next day.

Hey- has LE ever investigated where Spider-man was the night of Dec. 25th 1996?

 

[Ames]

If PR had screamed for JR like she stated when she realized JBR had been kidnapped it should have woke up Burke. I gotta tell you...that is one strange house.
An intruder can quitely break in, go right up the stairs, kidnapp a child, feed her pineapple in the kitchen, take her to the basement and kill her and then sit down and calmly write a ransom note with a pen and paper from the house. Oh, and then leave the note on the stairs that PR will come down the next morning to find, then she screams for her husband (who is a floor up). He hears her, comes running, but the son on the same floor sleeps soundly. Does that about cover it?

Gayla

I agree...and I have posted about this before. In Patsy's 98 interview..she says that there was alot of hysterical screaming going on. She SAYS that!!! But yet...Burke just sleeps on and on....probably dreaming about playing his Nintendo64. Burke must have gotten into John's melatonin.

 

[Ames]

Pretty much. Also, the "intruder" soooo quietly puts a suitcase up against a basement wall and, spider-man-like, climbed UP the wall and squeezed out a small window, moving a heavy metal grate back in place without anyone hearing that amd without being seen and then using his spider-man powers, re-spins the spider web that was found intact across the grate the next day.

Hey- has LE ever investigated where Spider-man was the night of Dec. 25th 1996?

:laugh: LOL... Yes, and he left the Ramsey's flashlight on the counter in the kitchen...so he must have had special "see in the dark" vision too, when he found his way around that messy basement, found the suitcase and put it against the wall...and then climbed out...into the darkness. WOW, he just has all sorts of special powers. He is Spider Man, Superman and Batman (and Robin) rolled all into one.

 

[BrowneyedKat]

Possibly Daffodil.

But has anyone heard of Patsy putting up a struggle such as most of us would.

In all the news broadcasts, interviews, and media coverage that we saw while this case was fresh, not once did I see the kind of desparate heartbreak/emotion that a parent would most most likely be enveloped in after finding the limp lifeless body of their dead child laying on the basement floor. Mr. Ramsey knew very well that he should not have moved her body until Police arrived, but he did. And not only did he move her upstairs, be removed her confines. The Ramsey's know what happened to this prescious little girl and the truth will out as they stand before God in judgement for what they have done and for what they know and for not protecting their child.

 

[Littledeer]

The Ramsey's know what happened to this prescious little girl and the truth will out as they stand before God in judgement for what they have done and for what they know and for not protecting their child.

I totally agree. But being the selfish person I am, I would rather have the truth come out before I am standing before God.

 

[JMO8778]

In all the news broadcasts, interviews, and media coverage that we saw while this case was fresh, not once did I see the kind of desparate heartbreak/emotion that a parent would most most likely be enveloped in after finding the limp lifeless body of their dead child laying on the basement floor. Mr. Ramsey knew very well that he should not have moved her body until Police arrived, but he did. And not only did he move her upstairs, be removed her confines. The Ramsey's know what happened to this prescious little girl and the truth will out as they stand before God in judgement for what they have done and for what they know and for not protecting their child.

yes,and in DOI,JR says he thought she might still be alive...no way.In that case,he would have tried CPR,not untied her and moved her body.

 

[DeeDee249]

There was no way JR could have thought she was still alive. Cold to the touch, pale, blue lips and so stiff that he had to carry her upright like a mannequin, with her arms straight over her head and they STAYED that way?
Even someone who had never seen a dead body would know that those are unmistakable signs of death. I mean, everyone knows what rigor mortis is. LA reports knowing as soon as she saw her she knew she was dead.
For JR to say he thought she might still be alive was just an excuse for giving (or SAYING he did) CPR so he could touch the body.

 

[Ames]

There was no way JR could have thought she was still alive. Cold to the touch, pale, blue lips and so stiff that he had to carry her upright like a mannequin, with her arms straight over her head and they STAYED that way?
Even someone who had never seen a dead body would know that those are unmistakable signs of death. I mean, everyone knows what rigor mortis is. LA reports knowing as soon as she saw her she knew she was dead.
For JR to say he thought she might still be alive was just an excuse for giving (or SAYING he did) CPR so he could touch the body.

Off Topic..but, it was a major red flag to me, when I read that Patsy did not BUDGE from that couch, when John came upstairs with JB's body. At that point, she did not KNOW that JB was dead. All she heard was Fleet yelling to "CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!" Now, tell me....if that had of been you...and your child had of been thought to have been kidnapped.and you were sitting on the couch with your friends, looking at photos of your daughter and walking down memory lane (like Patsy did....its as if she already KNEW JB was dead)....and you heard someone scream "CALL AN AMBULANCE!!!"....would you just sit there like a bump on a log, or would you get up and run as quickly as you could to your child? Fleet didn't yell to call a HEARSE...he said to call an ambulance. Oh my gosh....they found her, and she is still alive!!! I have to get to my baby!!! That should have been the first thing that came to her mind...instead of sitting her big butt on that couch and not moving. Even her friends thought it was strange.

 

[Blondieskatz]

Also, don't forget LA statement that JB had already had a smell about her. This too should have been obvious to JR.

As for PR when she heard JR scream or FW scream to call 911 she should have went running. I think this would be a normal reaction for anyone in this situation, especially the mother. She should have been the first one in the room yelling for a phone. Unless, of course, she knew JB was dead.

I just wish someone from that morning would talk, just tell what really went on. :doh:

 

[coloradokares]

Also, don't forget LA statement that JB had already had a smell about her. This too should have been obvious to JR.

As for PR when she heard JR scream or FW scream to call 911 she should have went running. I think this would be a normal reaction for anyone in this situation, especially the mother. She should have been the first one in the room yelling for a phone. Unless, of course, she knew JB was dead.

I just wish someone from that morning would talk, just tell what really went on. :doh:

Rest assured Fleet White wrote letters at that time that promised he would testify in court regarding all he knows when Alex Hunter and the current DA no longer called the shots. Nothing lasts forever and I believe Lacy may be replaced . However they did just convict Molly Midyette . Which should shock everyone as hard as Lacy fought to not even prosecute that. I remain disappointed that more has not been done regarding the murder of JonBenet. But maybe one day justice will prevail in this matter as well.

 

[coloradokares]

Also, don't forget LA statement that JB had already had a smell about her. This too should have been obvious to JR.

As for PR when she heard JR scream or FW scream to call 911 she should have went running. I think this would be a normal reaction for anyone in this situation, especially the mother. She should have been the first one in the room yelling for a phone. Unless, of course, she knew JB was dead.

I just wish someone from that morning would talk, just tell what really went on. :doh:

Rest assured Fleet White wrote letters at that time that promised he would testify in court regarding all he knows when Alex Hunter and the current DA no longer called the shots. Nothing lasts forever and I believe Lacy may be replaced . However they did just convict Molly Midyette . Which should shock everyone as hard as Lacy fought to not even prosecute that. I remain disappointed that more has not been done regarding the murder of JonBenet. But maybe one day justice will prevail in this matter as well.

 

[Trocaria]

Also, don't forget LA statement that JB had already had a smell about her. This too should have been obvious to JR.

As for PR when she heard JR scream or FW scream to call 911 she should have went running. I think this would be a normal reaction for anyone in this situation, especially the mother. She should have been the first one in the room yelling for a phone. Unless, of course, she knew JB was dead.

I just wish someone from that morning would talk, just tell what really went on. :doh:

Huh? Decomp smell?
She was in full rigor, wasn't she? Decomp and the stench that comes with it starts as rigor releases not before.
I don't doubt that she did not smell pleasant. Bowels and bladder would have emptied by then.

 

[JMO8778]

Rest assured Fleet White wrote letters at that time that promised he would testify in court regarding all he knows when Alex Hunter and the current DA no longer called the shots. Nothing lasts forever and I believe Lacy may be replaced . However they did just convict Molly Midyette . Which should shock everyone as hard as Lacy fought to not even prosecute that. I remain disappointed that more has not been done regarding the murder of JonBenet. But maybe one day justice will prevail in this matter as well.

YAY!!:clap::clap::clap:

 

[DeeDee249]

Huh? Decomp smell?
She was in full rigor, wasn't she? Decomp and the stench that comes with it starts as rigor releases not before.
I don't doubt that she did not smell pleasant. Bowels and bladder would have emptied by then.

The odor that you speak about, which is associated with advanced decomposition, develops according to the exposure of the body to weather and air temperature. Some decomposition starts much more quickly. In forensic entymology (the study of insects that pray on the dead) it shows that insects find a dead body by smell (insects have an excellent sense of smell) and the first insects can arrive at a body within 10 minutes. Rigor doesn't release until 36 hours after death. There would already be several instars (generations of larvae) on the body at that point.
JBR's bladder had emptied- that was noted at autopsy, and urine stains on her clothes indicate the same. Kidneys are always functioning- there is always SOME urine in the bladder, and when primary flaccidity occurs immediately at death, the bladder muscles relax and urine is released.
But the bowel does not always release any contents at death. It depends where the fecal matter is located in the digestive tract. All digestion stops immediately at death. JBR was found with soft green fecal material in her intestines. It had not moved down far enough to be released at death. If it had been further along, it would have happened. This fecal matter represented whatever she ate at the White's. The pineapple was consumed too close to death to have moved down that far- it was still able to be identified as pineapple.
All the more reason to believe that she died within 2 hours of returning home.

 

[Ames]

The odor that you speak about, which is associated with advanced decomposition, develops according to the exposure of the body to weather and air temperature. Some decomposition starts much more quickly. In forensic entymology (the study of insects that pray on the dead) it shows that insects find a dead body by smell (insects have an excellent sense of smell) and the first insects can arrive at a body within 10 minutes. Rigor doesn't release until 36 hours after death. There would already be several instars (generations of larvae) on the body at that point.
JBR's bladder had emptied- that was noted at autopsy, and urine stains on her clothes indicate the same. Kidneys are always functioning- there is always SOME urine in the bladder, and when primary flaccidity occurs immediately at death, the bladder muscles relax and urine is released.
But the bowel does not always release any contents at death. It depends where the fecal matter is located in the digestive tract. All digestion stops immediately at death. JBR was found with soft green fecal material in her intestines. It had not moved down far enough to be released at death. If it had been further along, it would have happened. This fecal matter represented whatever she ate at the White's. The pineapple was consumed too close to death to have moved down that far- it was still able to be identified as pineapple.
All the more reason to believe that she died within 2 hours of returning home.

Excellent post DeeDee...There is no doubt in my mind that Burke's original statement ...that JB walked in and helped to bring in presents.....in the truthful one. I believe that she walked in, and then later..she had a little pineapple snack, sometime before she went to bed. I can't remember...do you know if that spoon in the pineapple bowl, was tested for fingerprints? I know that the bowl and the glass were.