118 and the Bible

[narlacat]

Ellen
I remember when it happened, we even heard about it over here (Australia) on prime time news, but I had stuff going on and didnt pay much attention at that time.
I have been following it for a year now, nowhere near as long as alot of the posters here, who have followed it from the start.
PMPT was on telly and it renewed my interest.
I have read a bit on the Peterson case but only snippets. I did see Amber Frey on Oprah one time.
I am not a crime buff at all, not into all those CSI type shows and didnt expect to get taken in like I have with this one.
JonBenet was such a cute kid (even without the make up!) and has captured my attention.

 

[Rupert]

Please help me out here. What the he!! does this even mean?

I think it's a bit like Seraph. Charismatic socio-path?

 

[Rupert]

Regardless IDI or RDI, there is now NO doubt in my mind what the $118k referred to in the RN. I typed in Victory + Baptist and amongst others I found the following:

http://www.psalm118.org/

http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/12-15-96.html

Seraph is right about the importance of Psalm 118 to this crime. My dear aunt was a Baptist and I learned alot from her. They are good people and help support the foundations of families when they are tested. It could be that someone just got a wee bit delusional.

There are just too many strong connections. Think about it:
Christmas, 118, bible open to Psalm 118, Psalm 118 center of Bible, "bind the cords up to the horns of the alter", Victory Baptist Church, Victory, SBTC, South Baptist Texas Convention, Saved By the Cross, southern common sense, watching over, small foreign faction, Listen Carefully, charismatic movement, heart or "G" or "V" in hand is like a tattoo (taboo) ....

There seemed to be a struggle here about this time in the southern bible belt over what is the best church for God. Could this struggle which was external to the family be what drove someone to kill JonBenet? Did someone they meet despise them for their beliefs? In DOI they said they visited a church camp somewhere in the south. Did they unfortunately meet someone that disagreed with them? Certainly the display of JonBenet in parades and on stage might have aggravated someone with strict upbringing. They were involved in the Episcopalian church. Did they meet someone there that disgareed with them? Was it someone in Boulder who knew them well?

Or was this internal? I don't know. But I do know now that 118 referred to Psalm 118 and that this was all about religion and maybe a sacrifice cover up. The RN was long because it was a message.

Now, who knows southern religion and watches dirty cop movies?

 

[narlacat]

Well, we know who was into religion be it southern or anything else and we know the Ramsey's were into movies enough to design a home theatre for their new home, though that was played down (bit like the bed wetting issue), John Ramsey even going as far to say that he watched Speed on a plane once but the sound was down!
Good post Rupert, was the bible really open to that psalm?? I have forgotten so much and thought this was a rumour but am probably getting it mixed up with the dictionary and the word incest.

 

[Nehemiah]

Regardless IDI or RDI, there is now NO doubt in my mind what the $118k referred to in the RN. I typed in Victory + Baptist and amongst others I found the following:

http://www.psalm118.org/

http://home.hiwaay.net/~contendr/12-15-96.html

Seraph is right about the importance of Psalm 118 to this crime. My dear aunt was a Baptist and I learned alot from her. They are good people and help support the foundations of families when they are tested. It could be that someone just got a wee bit delusional.

There are just too many strong connections. Think about it:
Christmas, 118, bible open to Psalm 118, Psalm 118 center of Bible, "bind the cords up to the horns of the alter", Victory Baptist Church, Victory, SBTC, South Baptist Texas Convention, Saved By the Cross, southern common sense, watching over, small foreign faction, Listen Carefully, charismatic movement, heart or "G" or "V" in hand is like a tattoo (taboo) ....

There seemed to be a struggle here about this time in the southern bible belt over what is the best church for God. Could this struggle which was external to the family be what drove someone to kill JonBenet? Did someone they meet despise them for their beliefs? In DOI they said they visited a church camp somewhere in the south. Did they unfortunately meet someone that disagreed with them? Certainly the display of JonBenet in parades and on stage might have aggravated someone with strict upbringing. They were involved in the Episcopalian church. Did they meet someone there that disgareed with them? Was it someone in Boulder who knew them well?

Or was this internal? I don't know. But I do know now that 118 referred to Psalm 118 and that this was all about religion and maybe a sacrifice cover up. The RN was long because it was a message.
Now, who knows southern religion and watches dirty cop movies?

I'm from the South, a Southern Baptist, also. To what struggle do you refer amongst the Bible belt? I see no connection, but maybe you can explain better.

 

[Rupert]

I'm from the South, a Southern Baptist, also. To what struggle do you refer amongst the Bible belt? I see no connection, but maybe you can explain better.

Well, I'm from the north and not a Baptist, so maybe you know better. I refer to the general growth of SBTC and other Baptist denominations and also the charismatic movement in the 1990's, especially the Promise Keepers who grew dynamically and started right in Boulder by Bill McCartney CU Football coach, who's son knew Jay Elowsky and who's football team seems to keep Keenan's attention with accusations by women.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/6d/6deg.html

http://www.nacwaa.org/rc/rc_articlepr_coloradowoes.php

I came across an article in Websleuths which led me to understand how common it is for religious leaders to start teachning with "Listen carefully":
http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-23546

There was alot of challenge to the PK's:
http://www.pbministries.org/Parachurch/PKs/camp3a.htm

http://www.ilovejesus.com/worship/fbbctoledo_/index5.shtml

Of course there was the Stephen Singular findings as well and specifically a Boulder Baptist clergy involved with young girls:
http://www.vote.org/ramsey/kane2.htm

All I know for sure now is that 118 Victory is about religion.

 

[Zman]

But that would be what Patsy did, in a Patsy-did-it theory. She claims up and down that she had no idea what John's income was, let alone what his bonus amount was. Now, this becomes absurd when you see the character testimony given by her family and friends as to how she was known prior to JonBenet's death as a woman who knew every single detail about the lives of her family and friends, down to their favorite colors and flowers. Patsy handled the finances of Burke's and JonBenet's school for the Good Fairy Project which funded the purchase of school supplies. According to the school principal, Patsy was so organized in keeping track of the project's finances that she set up a spreadsheet to track down to the penny just what supplies were needed by just what teachers in what classes. So this fake "I am an idiot about finances, I must have money because I have blank checks" mask Patsy put on for DOI and in her interviews is a patent fraud.

It's quite possible for PR to want to do a good job with the purchase of school supplies and know alot about her family and friends(like most women) yet not want anything to do with paying bills, writing and mailing checks, doing taxes or keeping check books and bank statements in order.

 

[narlacat]

http://www.vote.org/ramsey/kane2.htm

So Pam Griffin says that Randy Simons wanted her daughter to pose nude.
I wonder if this was before or after JonBenet had her pictures taken by him?

It was Griffin that recommended Simons to Patsy saying that when a pageant favoured the seductive look, he was the best. He could make a 6 yr old look like a 20 yr old.

 

[deanws]

http://www.vote.org/ramsey/kane2.htm

So Pam Griffin says that Randy Simons wanted her daughter to pose nude.
I wonder if this was before or after JonBenet had her pictures taken by him?
I can't remember properly, if it was Pam Griffin that recommended him to Patsy.....does anyone else know?

Interesting letter!

 

[txsvicki]

There's Southern Baptist churches in every town all over the south. There's probably a First Baptist Church in every Texas town. They are not fundamentalists or at odds with any other Baptist churches and never did really get into the charismatic movement that I know of. There might have been some disagreements among the leaders of the Southern Baptist Texas leadership conventions at that time. My whole family is Southern Baptist and there's no way I could ever believe that this has anything to do with the murder. However, I wonder if Patsy grew up Baptist or was she always Episcopalian?

 

[Rupert]

Well, we know who was into religion be it southern or anything else and we know the Ramsey's were into movies enough to design a home theatre for their new home, though that was played down (bit like the bed wetting issue), John Ramsey even going as far to say that he watched Speed on a plane once but the sound was down!
Good post Rupert, was the bible really open to that psalm?? I have forgotten so much and thought this was a rumour but am probably getting it mixed up with the dictionary and the word incest.

Narlacat, I wasn't aware that they designed a home theatre. Did they build it? Where is it in the house? He watched Speed on the plane but the sound was turned down? Aw schucks, of all times to watch a movie when the sound is turned down. And it had to be that one. How convenient. He might well have been asleep with melatonin.

 

[trixie]

Narlacat, I wasn't aware that they designed a home theatre. Did they build it? Where is it in the house? He watched Speed on the plane but the sound was turned down? Aw schucks, of all times to watch a movie when the sound is turned down. And it had to be that one. How convenient. He might well have been asleep with melatonin.

Rupert, have you read Death of Innocence? If not you should. A lot of your questions are answered in that book.

The home theatre was up in their master bedroom. It had a pull down screen. They all would go up there to watch family movies while laying on the bed. Patsy would always fall asleep.

 

[narlacat]

Narlacat, I wasn't aware that they designed a home theatre. Did they build it? Where is it in the house? He watched Speed on the plane but the sound was turned down? Aw schucks, of all times to watch a movie when the sound is turned down. And it had to be that one. How convenient. He might well have been asleep with melatonin.

It was probably more a case of not putting his ear plugs in, it's been a while since I read that about John, I know he claims not to have been able to hear it though.
Trixie answered your other questions for you.

 

[narlacat]

It's quite possible for PR to want to do a good job with the purchase of school supplies and know alot about her family and friends(like most women) yet not want anything to do with paying bills, writing and mailing checks, doing taxes or keeping check books and bank statements in order.

Well, just who paid those bills when John was away? Bills do not pay themselves.
John was away alot of the time, it is not feasible to think Patsy left everything unattended until he came home.

 

[Zman]

Well, just who paid those bills when John was away? Bills do not pay themselves.
John was away alot of the time, it is not feasible to think Patsy left everything unattended until he came home.

I'm sure JR could take care of anything he had to before he left, most people pay bills once a month. It's not like JR was gone for a year at a time. I'm sure if PR had to pay a bill, she would. She probably just was not all that interested in doing it all the time.
As for the school supplies this would be something she wanted to do and probably volunteered. She also may have wanted to do other things for the school. So I'm sure she wanted to be known has someone who could do a good job.

 

[Nehemiah]

Well, I'm from the north and not a Baptist, so maybe you know better. I refer to the general growth of SBTC and other Baptist denominations and also the charismatic movement in the 1990's, especially the Promise Keepers who grew dynamically and started right in Boulder by Bill McCartney CU Football coach, who's son knew Jay Elowsky and who's football team seems to keep Keenan's attention with accusations by women.

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/6502/6d/6deg.html

http://www.nacwaa.org/rc/rc_articlepr_coloradowoes.php

I came across an article in Websleuths which led me to understand how common it is for religious leaders to start teachning with "Listen carefully":
http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-23546

There was alot of challenge to the PK's:
http://www.pbministries.org/Parachurch/PKs/camp3a.htm

http://www.ilovejesus.com/worship/fbbctoledo_/index5.shtml

Of course there was the Stephen Singular findings as well and specifically a Boulder Baptist clergy involved with young girls:
http://www.vote.org/ramsey/kane2.htm

All I know for sure now is that 118 Victory is about religion.

I can understand your interest, and perhaps the perp was connected to religion in some way, maybe even PK or Baptist, or Southern Baptist. However, to give further explanation....Promise Keepers is not affiliated in any way with the Southern Baptist denomination, and is strictly a parachurch ministry. Also, First Baptist Church in Boulder is not a Southern Baptist church. I agree with txsvicki in that the Southern Baptist denomination is not fundamentalist, charasmatic, etc... Again, I'm not refuting your thoughts, just trying to add some clarity.

 

[trixie]

Well, just who paid those bills when John was away? Bills do not pay themselves.
John was away alot of the time, it is not feasible to think Patsy left everything unattended until he came home.

Patsy said in a BPD interview that she kept her own checkbook for personal use and for household items, etc. That's what she was going to write LHP's check out of. I'm sure John Ramsey did not balance and maintain Patsys personal checkbook. It seems like everyone is forgetting that John and Patsy started their business in their garage early on in their marriage. Patsy was instrumental in that. I'm sure she probably did bookeeping work as needed. She's no stranger to finances.

 

[Rupert]

There's Southern Baptist churches in every town all over the south. There's probably a First Baptist Church in every Texas town. They are not fundamentalists or at odds with any other Baptist churches and never did really get into the charismatic movement that I know of. There might have been some disagreements among the leaders of the Southern Baptist Texas leadership conventions at that time. My whole family is Southern Baptist and there's no way I could ever believe that this has anything to do with the murder. However, I wonder if Patsy grew up Baptist or was she always Episcopalian?

Every night I drive home from work I pass by the new Victory Baptist Church sign. I understand that VBC is an independent church from SBTC. I am not saying anyone in the South Baptist Texas Convention had anything to do with this. If you read my earlier remarks, SBCT might very well be Saved By The Cross. I do know that according to Seraph, PR was appparently into the charismatic movement (during her bout with cancer) and the Victory Baptist also the same.

Maybe it was PR pleading for forgiveness yet covering up with a fake ransom note. Hence you get kidnapping and religion.

Maybe worse it was a message from a delusional PR saying this is the sacrifice and like Lazarus she will be raised up.

Maybe it was an intruder with some kind of Baptist connection whether it be anti or posi. If so, maybe we can narrow it down further. A neighbour, a friend, someone who knows them?

I wish it was an intruder, but the facts don't seem to bat it out of the park.

This was not God's will. The child was born to have a life.

 

[narlacat]

QUOTE>> Maybe it was PR pleading for forgiveness yet covering up with a fake ransom note. Hence you get kidnapping and religion.
Maybe worse it was a message from a delusional PR saying this is the sacrifice and like Lazarus she will be raised up.<<

Wow, this is right up Brothermoon's alley! It is pretty much exactly what he thinks.
He still posts over at Crimenews2000.
There is a note analysis over there that explains Patsy's use of that part of the Bible.
It's worth a look

 

[Rupert]

Again I will say it that I have no doubt that $118k refers to Psalm 118. Victory and SBTC added later just make it to strong a connection to say otherwise.

Now, the only time the the RN author says why he is doing this is: "We do respect your bussiness but not the country that it serves."

So, if the we give the benefit of doubt to IDI, then
1) this is a religious perp from some foreign faction of the church,
2) who does some business with JR,
3) but does not like the U.S.

So he garrotes and then bashes JonBenet. Weird. Any ideas?

I did some more searching, but I'm exhausted. I listened carefully, but confess I still don't get the message. There just doesn't seem to be any message that stands out clear.