17-yo Teen Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #7

[ScubaTwinn]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/mar/22/trayvon-martin-sanford-police-chief-steps-down

Thank you. As much as I've followed this case, I believe it's the first time I recall the clothing being mentioned.

 

[m00c0w]

Whether he told his Dad or not TM's Dad did try to reach him by phone and assumed he had ended up going to the movies with his cousin as TM had earlier discussed that he might do. Most people in the movie theater turn their phones off so the dad not being able to get an answer from TM may not have been a concern that night. And dad falling asleep while his son was still out, some people can do it. I remember worrying about my teens when they first started driving and planned to return late but the next thing I knew it was morning. One night I fell asleep on the couch only to wake up the next morning. They were home and I never heard them come in. It's not an issue of dad did not care, just that dad did not feel there was anything to worry about. jmo

I'm not implying that the dad didn't care about anything. I'm saying that it's weird that they know all of these details, like why Martin went to the 7-11 or that he even went to the 7-11, but the dad claims he thought Martin was with his cousin. It seems to me that if he knew he never came back from a trip to the 7-11 at the time, he would have not assumed he was with his cousin. Which makes me wonder where this information came from that describes what Martin was doing.

 

[Sensei]

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline...erge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html

"With a single punch," the Orlando Sentinel, citing police sources, reported Monday, "Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer ... climbed on top of [him] and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered."

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html

As thousands of people gathered here to demand an arrest in the Trayvon Martin case, a more complicated portrait began to emerge of a teenager whose problems at school ranged from getting spotted defacing lockers to getting caught with a marijuana baggie and women’s jewelry.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/#ixzz1qGztV3LT

The Daily Caller has obtained a compilation of the late Trayvon Martin’s tweets.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who eventually shot and killed the unarmed 17-year-old, then Trayvon climbed on top of George Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk, leaving him bloody and battered, law-enforcement authorities told the Orlando Sentinel.

So, either this is what happened, That with a single mighty blow TM knocked GZ off his feet and slammed his head against the concrete repeatedly...and when police arrived after hearing this story and seeing him bloodied and battered they did NOT request an ambulance, in fact he was treated "IN THE BACK OF THE SQUAD CAR", and then he was taken to the police station to give probably the most important statement of his life.

I do not believe this story one single bit, not a jot, it is simply stupid...head injuries are extremely serious and a blow to the head that does NOT have a gash and bleeding is ALWAYS a one way ticket to the ER for CAT scan and some diagnostics and observation. How often have you heard of people who are struck on the head and appear find for hours and then either simply keel over dead, or begin to exhibit very serious side effects. I am not even going to mention how uncomfortable it would be to be interviewed with a broken nose, and how much swelling would be obviously apparent.

Sanford PD needs to provide pictures and medical documentation of this before I am going to believe it, because if that was indeed the case, they not only treated the deceased as if he didn't matter, they put GZ's life in very real danger...so there is no way I am going to believe that trained police officers allowed that to happen IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[m00c0w]

So, either this is what happened, That with a single mighty blow TM knocked GZ off his feet and slammed his head against the concrete repeatedly...and when police arrived after hearing this story and seeing him bloodied and battered they did NOT request an ambulance, in fact he was treated "IN THE BACK OF THE SQUAD CAR", and then he was taken to the police station to give probably the most important statement of his life.

I do not believe this story one single bit, not a jot, it is simply stupid...head injuries are extremely serious and a blow to the head that does NOT have a gash and bleeding is ALWAYS a one way ticket to the ER for CAT scan and some diagnostics and observation. How often have you heard of people who are struck on the head and appear find for hours and then either simply keel over dead, or begin to exhibit very serious side effects. I am not even going to mention how uncomfortable it would be to be interviewed with a broken nose, and how much swelling would be obviously apparent.

Sanford PD needs to provide pictures and medical documentation of this before I am going to believe it, because if that was indeed the case, they not only treated the deceased as if he didn't matter, they put GZ's life in very real danger...so there is no way I am going to believe that trained police officers allowed that to happen IMO JMHO and stuff.

You want them to provide you with HIPAA protected documents because you don't believe Zimmerman was capable of signing a waiver?

 

[LambChop]

Thank you!

Ok - dad and gf were out, 13 yr old was home the whole time. So what did 13 yr old hear that night?

Even if he didn't go out or look out the window - he heard the sirens. He had to have seen the "flashes" of blue lights as the cop cars came in. I have a hard time thinking the 13 yr old went in his room and buried his head. 13 yr olds are, in general, a curious bunch. He had to have at least looked out the windows.

Again, thanks for that confirmation on who was where and who went where that night.




JMHO

TM was shot behind another row of homes on his way to the condo and it is not visible from where his condo was. Even if you hear sirens in the neighborhood it does not mean it would concern the 13 year old. So if he were to look out the windows he probably could not see anything other than blue lights down the street. I also imagine because no other person was with him his mother had given him strick instructions not to leave the house.

According to 911 records with just GZ's calls alone LE was there a lot. So that is not accounting for anyone else who might have called. I don't think it's fair to speculate or sleuth a minor who had nothing to do with TM being shot and whose only involvement in this case seems to be that TM went out to get him a bag of Skittles. This child has enough on his plate right now. jmo

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It is my opinion that we can not expect LE to release all of the information regarding the investigation now.

It is my opinion, that if LE, who has investigated this since day 1 do not believe an arrest should occur, there is a reason.

A reason that we don't know because we do not have first hand knowledge.

In my opinion, people screaming for an arrest should realize that they don't have all the facts and maybe when the facts come out, they will understand why an arrest has not been made.

Just my opinion.

I don't know what happened. I really don't think any of us here at WS or at the rallies know what happened.
I would think LE would have a better understanding of anyone about this.

JMO and I'm sorry this young man lost his life.

 

[Concerned Papa]

It's weird that doesn't show up on Google Maps. Mea culpa.

That would be right at two miles round trip. Maybe an hour or a little less depending on how long it too him in the store?

It does show up on Google Maps, that's how I found it. Go to the link under the picture, zoom in on the location, then drag the yellow man symbol into the street. You'll see it.

I measured the distance using the 200' per inch scale shown at the bottom left of the image, and it looks like about a mile +/- round trip. I would have to go into Google Earth to get any more precise than that, but I don't have the program downloaded onto my office computer.

If I think about it when I get home, I can let you know exactly how far it is.

 

[tambo]

I don't think a walk like that is very far for a 17 year old, heck i walked alot farther to school than that every day, and even still i walk more than that with my dog etc.....jmo, but i'm wondering why this is important. He was 17 years old, they usually walk alot.

 

[m00c0w]

It does show up on Google Maps, that's how I found it. Go to the link under the picture, zoom in on the location, then drag the yellow man symbol into the street. You'll see it.

I measured the distance using the 200' per inch scale shown at the bottom left of the image, and it looks like about a mile +/- round trip. I would have to go into Google Earth to get any more precise than that, but I don't have the program downloaded onto my office computer.

If I think about it when I get home, I can let you know exactly how far it is.

I saw it on the street view when you provided an address. I meant that I did a search for 7-11s in the area, and it did not pop up.

I did a measurement and it was right at a mile from the shopping center to very near where the townhouse is.

 

[m00c0w]

I don't think a walk like that is very far for a 17 year old, heck i walked alot farther to school than that every day, and even still i walk more than that with my dog etc.....jmo, but i'm wondering why this is important. He was 17 years old, they usually walk alot.

The walking isn't necessarily important. It's the timeline of events.

 

[Sensei]

You want them to provide you with HIPAA protected documents because you don't believe Zimmerman was capable of signing a waiver?

I am saying that if that was indeed the case, then Zimmerman should not have been taken to a police station for questioning without a thorough medical exam, and if they had to arrest him to make that happen that is what they should have done, because if he had had a subdural hematoma or bleeding on the brain, he could have keeled over dead with no particular warning, and the Sanford Police department would have been responsible and could NOT have avoided a law suit....

He was treated in the back of the squad car, by someone, an EMT, who if the injuries were as described not only dropped the ball but set himself up to be sued out of existance for malpractice, and brought up on criminal charges, because he is NOT covered by the "good samaritan law" When you are a trained health care professional you have specific responsibilites, and once you initiate the care of any person you are responsible...the EMT should and would if he was doing his job have told the LE on the scene that GZ, in spite of any waiver, was not fit to be taken to the Police Department for questioning without medical care unless they were willing to take the chance and ignore that he may have serious and even life threatening injuries.

This leads me to the logical conclusion that whatever injuries he claims and was treated for, they were not of a level that would support his head being smacked on the pavement, or a broken nose....IMO JMHO and stuff

 

[HiHater]

It is my opinion that we can not expect LE to release all of the information regarding the investigation now.

It is my opinion, that if LE, who has investigated this since day 1 do not believe an arrest should occur, there is a reason.

A reason that we don't know because we do not have first hand knowledge.

In my opinion, people screaming for an arrest should realize that they don't have all the facts and maybe when the facts come out, they will understand why an arrest has not been made.

Just my opinion.

I don't know what happened. I really don't think any of us here at WS or at the rallies know what happened.
I would think LE would have a better understanding of anyone about this.

JMO and I'm sorry this young man lost his life.

By that same token, I think it's rather odd to release bits and pieces of info that are very favorable to Zimmerman...JMO Release everything, or just say you cannot due to an active investigation.

 

[HiHater]

The walking isn't necessarily important. It's the timeline of events.

Which again, does not really matter in the big scheme of things. He was found with skittles and iced tea. Nothing else that we know of...nothing else to indicate he went anywhere other than what is reported.

 

[Sensei]

By that same token, I think it's rather odd to release bits and pieces of info that are very favorable to Zimmerman...JMO Release everything, or just say you cannot due to an active investigation.

The resistance to arresting Zimmerman could be as simple as the fact that the Sunshine laws which would trigger the requirement to make everything public will not be triggered until there is an arrest IIRC. As long as they don't arrest that law doesn't apply

someone help me out here if I am wrong, I have to go research.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

By that same token, I think it's rather odd to release bits and pieces of info that are very favorable to Zimmerman...JMO Release everything, or just say you cannot due to an active investigation.

That's normally how it happens isn't it? Bits and pieces come out. Never the whole investigation file.

I'm sure they feel pressured to arrest Zimmerman (as your siggy says) just due to the public outcry. Many of those who are doing the protests have little or no knowledge of the facts of the case. They just want an arrest.

Perhaps LE has information that we don't have that tells them an arrest would not be right.

I'm sure the details will come out.

 

[LambChop]

You want them to provide you with HIPAA protected documents because you don't believe Zimmerman was capable of signing a waiver?

They can't. GZ knows they can't. If I had a $10,000 pricetag on my head I'd have whipped that doctor's report out to show I was, in fact, injured. If it happened the way the "leak" described he would have had to have had some serious injuries to his head. I would think his attorney would be encouraging him to do so. I wish he would for his own safety because it just might get someone to retract that bounty and reconsider holding off until all the evidence comes forward. No one, well most of us don't want to see GZ get hurt. They may rant about it but we all just want to hear what happened compared to what the evidence shows. The fact that LE will not release any information tells us they are not so sure he is innocent and they are protecting the information against leaks in lieu of a possible arrest.

If he were innocent there is no reason why his attorney could not make a statement for him. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

I am saying that if that was indeed the case, then Zimmerman should not have been taken to a police station for questioning without a thorough medical exam, and if they had to arrest him to make that happen that is what they should have done, because if he had had a subdural hematoma or bleeding on the brain, he could have keeled over dead with no particular warning, and the Sanford Police department would have been responsible and could NOT have avoided a law suit....

He was treated in the back of the squad car, by someone, an EMT, who if the injuries were as described not only dropped the ball but set himself up to be sued out of existance for malpractice, and brought up on criminal charges, because he is NOT covered by the "good samaritan law" When you are a trained health care professional you have specific responsibilites, and once you initiate the care of any person you are responsible...the EMT should and would if he was doing his job have told the LE on the scene that GZ, in spite of any waiver, was not fit to be taken to the Police Department for questioning without medical care unless they were willing to take the chance and ignore that he may have serious and even life threatening injuries.

This leads me to the logical conclusion that whatever injuries he claims and was treated for, they were not of a level that would support his head being smacked on the pavement, or a broken nose....IMO JMHO and stuff

It is your right to deny treatment. You can have the FD and paramedics come out, and decline to be taken to a hospital all you want. You just have to sign a form saying that you will not hold the city liable should you choose to not go with them. You are under no obligation to go with them if you do not want to. The only time they can forcibly transport you is if you are incapable of making decisions for yourself (unconscious or clearly delirious), or if they have a court order to institutionalize someone because of a suspected mental condition.

 

[Velouria]

Where do you have evidence that points to the police not collecting Zimmerman's clothing? You mention this in a couple of your points above; I assume you have a sourcing for these allegations.

Police did not retrieve Zimmerman’s clothing that night, nor did they conduct a drug test on the neighborhood-watch volunteer.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...-of-fight-with-trayvon-martin-questioned.html

Do we have any reason to believe they didn't canvass the area and that the anybody just wasn't home? I believe the father has implied multiple times that he was left home alone while he (the father) went out to dinner.

Yes, but the 13 year-old son of his girlfriend remained at home.

I'm also not sure there's any evidence to say that they didn't try to contact the girlfriend, and the family's lawyer interfered.

Only the phone records, and the word of the young girl through the Martin family's attorney.

Natalie Jackson, another attorney for the Martin family, said police had not interviewed the girl.Sanford Police Sgt. David Morgenstern said "at the onset, we asked any and all witnesses with information to come forward."He would not say say whether the department has contacted the girl.

http://www.krcrtv.com/news/30718928/detail.html

I don't know why the department would refrain from acknowledging that they had contacted a crucial witness.

However, if you have a link that states the police were prevented by attorneys from speaking to the girlfriend, please share.

I don't believe any witnesses have negated his story. There have been a few witnesses that have popped up whose accounts have been made out this way, but the fact is that they were only witnesses to the aftermath of the shooting. Two of those even swear that they didn't hear fighting or screaming, just "childlike whimpers" and then a gunshot. This is clearly not what was going on as evidenced by the 911 calls in which you hear screams and a gunshot. Yet, these two were supposedly directly outside of these women's window, but they couldn't hear the screams that the 911 callers heard and was recorded onto the 911 tapes.

Both these women have stated that they saw GZ over TM with his knees pinning Trayvon's arms to the ground. One made numerous attempts to contact police to clear up discrepancies in the written report, but her calls were never returned. Both women stated that what they saw and heard led them to believe there was no way this was a case of self-defense.

And you still don't think there was probable cause to at least arrest GZ?

 

[m00c0w]

They can't. GZ knows they can't. If I had a $10,000 pricetag on my head I'd have whipped that doctor's report out to show I was, in fact, injured. If it happened the way the "leak" described he would have had to have had some serious injuries to his head. I would think his attorney would be encouraging him to do so. I wish he would for his own safety because it just might get someone to retract that bounty and reconsider holding off until all the evidence comes forward. No one, well most of us don't want to see GZ get hurt. They may rant about it but we all just want to hear what happened compared to what the evidence shows. The fact that LE will not release any information tells us they are not so sure he is innocent and they are protecting the information against leaks in lieu of a possible arrest.

If he were innocent there is no reason why his attorney could not make a statement for him. jmo

He's under no obligation to do anything. In fact, to give in would send the message that the Black Panthers can go around threatening people with death to get what they want.

Even more to the point, when he/his lawyer has made statements to the effect you describe, the family characterized him as "demonizing" their son. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for him right now. I'd just keep my head down and not say anything if I were in his position, too.

 

[tambo]

The walking isn't necessarily important. It's the timeline of events.

well, who knows, maybe the 13 year old went to dinner with mom and tray's dad, and before they left tray said, oh, i think i'm going to walk over to 711 and get an iced tea, do you want anything,, and the 13 year old says,, oh yeah,, skittles please...tray leaves for 711, mom tray's dad and 13 year old go to dinner, who knows maybe they even dropped him off at 711 and he was going to walk back...they come home an hour or 2 later, tray's not there...dad says..oh,, i guess tray must have gone to the movies,, i'll call him to see,, tray's dad calls phone goes to voice mail..dad says, must be at the movie (most people shut their phones off)...dad calls cousin, his phone is off...must be at the movies...since they had talked it about earlier...tray's dad falls asleep, wakes up the next morning and no tray, and cousin hasn't heard from him either....dad calls police....

I don't know that that is what happened, but sure could be close...

It would be interesting to know how long the investigators were there..