17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[Isabelle]

If so, then you are building the perfect defense for GZ. If TM was home safely on his porch, and he then went out again solely to confront and 'dance' with GZ, then self defense will be warranted, imo.

Not if GZ came after TM while he was at his porch and TM tried to get away! Where is this TM on the porch story coming from?

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

I think that could also be ' we see them according to WHERE we are.'

People who live in neighborhoods where the Crips have a heavy presence are much more likely to see TM as being suspicious than someone who does not.

Having worked in an inner city high school, where there was a lot of violence, I tend to understand why GZ was suspicious. But I do not think it is fair to infer that I am a racist, which some here are doing when they point out those who are defending GZ in any way.

I agree that where you live has an impact and I don't know if you are a racist or not. I am not going there. Of course we are a compilation of where we've been in our lives. I worked in a high school full of privileged rich white kids (some minority too) and my pleasure was working with the adjudicated youth population. I could tell some tales that would curl your hair. Really troubled kids~but it never made me scared of other kids I saw in my neighborhood. I guess I just don't think that way. JMO

 

[RANCH]

Websleuths Radio in on now.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/04/02/websleuths-radio?ie8c=0

 

[Concerned Papa]

If so, then you are building the perfect defense for GZ. If TM was home safely on his porch, and he then went out again solely to confront and 'dance' with GZ, then self defense will be warranted, imo.

I'm not building anything one way or the other. Just trying to figure this deal out like the rest of you are. I didn't know TM. I know nothing about his temperament, but I know mine very well. What ever happened would have happened long before it did with Trayvon.

I wasn't a skinny little 140-150 lb kid gonna take on an ex Rave bouncer. I was full grown at 17. Big difference between that and what I believe TM to be capable of. Particularly after seeing that blemish free video 35 minutes or so later?

Please, I don't care how many of his pals, buddies, and kin talk about diapers and such, I'll NEVER believe Trayvon Martin got the best of <modsnip> George to the point of his murder being justified.

I heard that boy screaming. Two experts convinced me of it last night.

 

[iluvmua]

Not if GZ came after TM while he was at his porch and TM tried to get away! Where is this TM on the porch story coming from?

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1qpX1S895

 

[Beyond Belief]

Trayvon obviously wasn't carrying his drivers license since he had no i.d., but they did they mention if he had an apartment key?
And does this particular association require its residents to inform them if they have extended visitors? I worked with associations for 10 years and had the visitors drug in to meet me more times than i say and I informed the security so those people wouldn't be stopped for questioning.

 

[i.b.nora]

As far as TM making it to his back porch, that's what makes the most sense to me with all the parameters of the timeline, both before and afterwards, that we know about at this point. Obviously the question becomes how did he get back up to the point his body was located at and arrive at almost the same time it calculates for GZ to reach the same point walking back up the sidewalk?

I think there are two different possibilities but I don't think he was shot on his porch. I think he was on the porch doing 2 things, one of which may have been taking off that soaking wet hoodie as he watched out for this goon running around looking for him.

Thanks for the new 'map'. I have a question, and a comment.

Do you know for a fact, that the Location #6 on your map is the exact townhouse that Trayvon and his father were staying at? Or are you guessing by his father saying he was 70 or 100 yards from home?

And, my comment is regarding that early Myfoxorlando article that you relied upon for your #6 porch : There are significant errors in that written article. For one it says they talked with Trayvon's mother, Tracy. The problem with that is that if they talked with a women, it would not be his mother, it might have been his father's girlfriend. If they talked with someone named Tracy, it would have been his father. Surely the reporter and news crew could tell the difference?
For two; the article says George Zimmerman is 25, however, I think he is older than that.
As for the porch comment, it makes no sense, imo.

 

[w1df10wr]

:kimsterwink:http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/04/02/websleuths-radio - Anyone else turned in to Websleuths Radio?

 

[Adrienne37]

What about this scenario---What would you think if TM had made it back safely to his porch. And he hid there and waited until he saw GZ looking for him, then went out to confront him? What that still be a cold blooded murder case in your eyes?

There is no evidence that that particular scenario occurred but even it did happen, Trayvon had a right to STAND HIS GROUND as well. He was being hunted and stalked by this man so that gives him the right to protect himself.

I do not believe that he made it back to his porch. I believe if his mother referenced that he got killed in his own backyard as a generalized term, meaning he was close to his home when he was brutally murdered which he was.

ETA - so now I'm seeing that this bit about the back porch was in an article which labeled Tracy Martin as Trayvon's mother.

~jmo~

 

[IzzyBlanche]

this was one of the first articles. and I think they meant the father and not the mother, they probably made a mistake since the name Tracy is more associated with females than with males.

But they quote him directly, so he had to be talking to someone. Couldn't they tell by his voice that he was male?

 

[LambChop]

Well, it will be interesting to see TM's girlfriend's entire deposition. Because if TM made it home safely, I imagine he mentioned it while the two were holding their running conversation.

On the other hand, another explanation for the 2-minute gap between police call and gunshot is that TM ducked around the corner and then hid in the shadows, trying to elude the man (GZ) who was pursuing him. But if that happened, I'd expect the gf to report a period of time when TM was silent: I doubt he'd hide in the shadow yet continue to talk on the phone. (ETA perhaps this hiding ended when TM told the gf that he thought he had eluded GZ? Could TM have hidden long enough to allow GZ to go all the way around the block and come up the sidewalk from the other direction? That might explain the sudden "Why are you following me?/What are you doing here?" the gf purportedly heard: TM had come out of the shadows and was continuing his way home only to find himself face-to-face with GZ.)

From what I remember she said TM said he lost him and he was hiding (maybe on someone's porch) and then she said GZ found him and she heard the exchange. jmo

 

[iluvmua]

Thanks for the new 'map'. I have a question, and a comment.

Do you know for a fact, that the Location #6 on your map is the exact townhouse that Trayvon and his father were staying at? Or are you guessing by his father saying he was 70 or 100 yards from home?

And, my comment is regarding that early Myfoxorlando article that you relied upon for your #6 porch : There are significant errors in that written article. For one it says they talked with Trayvon's mother, Tracy. The problem with that is that if they talked with a women, it would not be his mother, it might have been his father's girlfriend. If they talked with someone named Tracy, it would have been his father. Surely the reporter and news crew could tell the difference?
For two; the article says George Zimmerman is 25, however, I think he is older than that.
As for the porch comment, it makes no sense, imo.

I know

 

[IzzyBlanche]

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1qpX1S895

So the crew MET with Tracy Martin and still reported that Tracy was the mother?

Again, I give this story no credibility.

 

[Boytwnmom]

of the concern and focus by ordinary people to be their disbelief that this wasn't thoroughly investigated and that he wasn't arrested "for something". I think it just defied most people's common sense when they hear the story and see what it has taken to get a real investigation done. Many people are parents and I think most parents can easily empathize with the Martins and imagine what it would be like if their son was walking home from the store and ended up dead and the person who admits shooting him was sent back home with no charges shortly after the boy was killed.

None of this means GZ is guilty of anything. It is a reaction to the story and it isn't concerned with the SYG law intricacies and who did what precisely when. It's an emotional response to this story in it's simplest form. And you are right to be concerned for GZ's rights here as the story may not be as simple as it sounds. But people have strong feelings about many cases and our country has always been able to seat a jury. I see no reason why this case would be any different.

And where are they going to find this jury? Do you really believe that GZ can get a fair trail, presumed innocent until proven otherwise? He has already been tried and found guilty of a racial hate crime by a significant portion of Americans (and around the globe).

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[iluvmua]

But they quote him directly, so he had to be talking to someone. Couldn't they tell by his voice that he was male?

Don't Know

 

[iluvmua]

So the crew MET with Tracy Martin and still reported that Tracy was the mother?

Again, I give this story no credibility.

whoever they were talking to weather it be Tracy Martin or Sybrina Fulton still said he was killed on his porch.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Don't Know

Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to phrase that as if I was asking you personally. It was more of a rhetorical question.

 

[m00c0w]

There is no evidence that that particular scenario occurred but even it did happen, Trayvon had a right to STAND HIS GROUND as well. He was being hunted and stalked by this man so that gives him the right to protect himself.

I do not believe that he made it back to his porch. I believe if his mother referenced that he got killed in his own backyard as a generalized term, meaning he was close to his home when he was brutally murdered which he was.

ETA - so now I'm seeing that this bit about the back porch was in an article which labeled Tracy Martin as Trayvon's mother.

~jmo~

Actually, that would not be standing his ground if Zimmerman walked by, Martin approached him from behind and proceeded to commit aggravated battery. That would squarely make Martin the aggressor, rendering him completely liable for his actions. Just like if Zimmerman were to come up from behind Martin and grab him and proceed to kill Martin, Zimmerman would not be protected.

JMO

 

[iluvmua]

If he was killed on his porch then where does the 70 yards come from?

 

[mercuriod]

And TM had every means to run back to his house if he choose too.

I think he could have made a dash home much sooner,
he was 6'3" That is LONG LEGS he could have lost GZ long ago.

:moo::moo::moo:

Please someone tell me I have lost my ever-lovin mind, am I seriously reading that it is Trayvon's fault that he was murdered because he didn't run from a bullet fast enough? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: