17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

[Adrienne37]

Let's get the big picture here. If Zimmerman had not intercepted Martin, Martin would have gone home, watched a ballgame and enjoyed a snack with his brother. He was preparing for college and the field of aviation. This was his plan. He was not committing a crime. He was only guilty of wearing clothes that are now the popular style with millions of kids around the world from all classes. Zimmerman was in error singling out this kid in the first place. That's the big picture.
Also, this fable about Martin carrying out an ambush and attack while on the phone does not add up. How can someone attack you while on the phone?

Thank you for your very frank and to the point post!! Awesome!!


~jmo~

 

[iluvmua]

So are you postulating that TM made it home and then instead of going inside, confronted GZ?

Who are you talking to?

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

Just an observation here~slightly OT~With so many opinions/perspectives about the sensitive issues surrounding Trayvon's death being discussed here, I can't get this quote out of my mind. It has been attributed to both Anais Nin and The Talmud. It's never made more sense to me.

"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are."

 

[katydid23]

First impressions and "sizing up" I understand. In fact, I posted about it the other morning after watching my cats react to a neighborhood stray who wandered in our yard. Sometimes our first impressions are spot on, and sometimes, not so much. So while it's natural behavior, it's also foolish in practically every situation to base one's actions solely on an initial intake, especially when the actions can bring serious consequences.

What I found interesting about your previous post was your opinion that GZ "sized him up correctly as someone to watch". To our knowledge, GZ observed TM merely walking through the complex. In the 911 call, he didn't specify any other behavior that could be deemed suspicious. He did say TM was running toward the back entrance, but that was after he placed the call. At the time he dialed 911, TM was only walking. In GZ's mind -- and perhaps yours, as well -- a young man walking warranted a call to 911. I don't mean to pick on you, but I raise the point because it is at the crux of the controversy.

People are speculating here and elsewhere about TM's character because of his school suspension. But that information didn't figure into GZ's evaluation. He knew absolutely nothing about TM, yet he followed him, called 911, possibly engaged him, and ultimately shot him dead. That's where the moral to the story lies, IMO. With no information beyond what his eye could see at a distance on a rainy night, GZ reacted in alarm. Why?

Here is what I think MIGHT have happened. Our house sits on a little hill right above the community pool. And there have been some break-ins there at the pool, and some costly vandalism. Also, some people sneak in after the pool is closed to party and midnight-swim. Since my own kids used to do that in high school [ I think so anyway] I do not usually report this even though my German Shepherd alerts me to any strange occurrences there.

But when I have seen people lurking, dressed in hoodies and in dark clothing, and standing in the shadows, then YES, I call the non-emergency number.

GZ first reported that TM was under the awning at the community center. That is a likely spot for a burglary or a break-in. So GZ probably thought he had a potential burglar and so he was going to cling on to this kid, hell or high water.

He was wrong and made terrible decisions. But I do not believe he set out to murder anybody, imo. I think this was the perfect storm of horrible circumstances. Especially weird if TM was already safely on his back porch,and then went to confront GZ, imo.

 

[Nova]

This is interesting -- the theory that TM made it all the way home (which would answer questiond by those who say why didn't he run to the safest spot). Also it would account for what was going on during all that time.

I'm not sure I understand why Papa thinks TM made it all the way home and then turned around and followed GZ back the length of a football field to the place where TM died.

One explanation that occurs to me, however, is that TM knew there was no adult home at the time. Perhaps he didn't want to lead a stranger to a house where there was no one except his 13-year-old (I hope that's right) step-brother?

***

On a different note, I think TM's mother's remark about his being killed "on his own back porch" may just be an emotional metaphor, another way of saying TM was basically killed in his own back yard, i.e., at home where he should have been safe. I'm not convinced she meant it as a precise location.

 

[Adrienne37]

The thing that gets me is that GZ was on the phone with dispatch and sees TM and tells the call taker what he's doing and everything, then I listen to the 911 call from the female and she had to have heard commotion for a bit before placing the call then is on the phone for 45 seconds before you hear the shot. So they struggled for at least a minute.

What happened that GZ didn't shoot TM straight away.

Probably making sure his bullet was in his gun properly.


~jmo~

 

[Concerned Papa]

As far as TM making it to his back porch, that's what makes the most sense to me with all the parameters of the timeline, both before and afterwards, that we know about at this point. Obviously the question becomes how did he get back up to the point his body was located at and arrive at almost the same time it calculates for GZ to reach the same point walking back up the sidewalk?

I think there are two different possibilities but I don't think he was shot on his porch. I think he was on the porch doing 2 things, one of which may have been taking off that soaking wet hoodie as he watched out for this goon running around looking for him.

 

[stmarysmead]

Katydid. Has that been suggested by the authorities..That he was home but did not go inside? If afraid, whyever not?

Is this what his Mom meant?

The thing that is just heartbreaking is that this tragedy seems to have had so many missed opportunities to be avoided. Most have to do, in my opinion, with GZ...but if only TM had gone inside and called police on GZ.

 

[katydid23]

Just an observation here~slightly OT~With so many opinions/perspectives about the sensitive issues surrounding Trayvon's death being discussed here, I can't get this quote out of my mind. It has been attributed to both Anais Nin and The Talmud. It's never made more sense to me.

"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are."

I think that could also be ' we see them according to WHERE we are.'

People who live in neighborhoods where the Crips have a heavy presence are much more likely to see TM as being suspicious than someone who does not.

Having worked in an inner city high school, where there was a lot of violence, I tend to understand why GZ was suspicious. But I do not think it is fair to infer that I am a racist, which some here are doing when they point out those who are defending GZ in any way.

 

[Emeralgem]

The police have it and refuse to give it to the parents.

Are you saying they still have TM's phone and are refusing to give it to his parents?

 

[LambChop]

This is what I think could be a reasonable assessment and convergence of statements, timelines, and the few facts that we have in this case. By no means do I view it as absolute, but considering the factors that are there to work with, it’s what makes the most sense to me,

What I started out with was a condensed version of the 911 call by Zimmerman where I removed non pertinent information not relating directly to time or placement. I took the running times shown and added the spans to the beginning time of the call to effect an actual timeline of occurrence for the events included.

On the portions that are theorized I have calculated distance and time using credible data which I have no problem explaining anything you’re curious about as to my methods. I think the calculations will prove to be valid whether the occurrence does or not.

I see the following 10 items as being critical time points in this chain of events. I am including my reasoning for their inclusion with each one.

(1) Trayvon Martin appears to have been at the clubhouse under an awning, due to the rain, when George Zimmerman called 911 at [7:09:34 pm]

(2) George Zimmerman appears to have parked part way down the street, talking to the 911 dispatcher and watching TM as he walked to the east towards the sidewalk [7:09:34 pm]

(3) As TM went further down the street, it seems likely to me that GZ moved his vehicle eastward to the point the sidewalk met the curb line to keep a better visual contact with TM [7:11:30 pm]

(4) Almost instantly, TM started running. [7:11:41 pm]



(5) GZ can be heard getting out of his vehicle to give chase [7:12:12 pm]



(6) TM, reaches his back porch. [7:12:01 pm]



(7) I think <modsnip> George walked the entire length of the back sidewalk, all the way down to the &#8220;next street&#8221; at the back entrance, trying to find that *advertiser censored****g c**n. An average walking speed for an adult male of 3 mph, calculates his reaching the end at [7:13:57 pm]



(8) For now, the only thing I want to point out is that walking back to the spot where Trayvon&#8217;s body was found would put him there at [7:15:26 pm]

(9) If Trayvon left his back porch at the time George Zimmerman passed him on the sidewalk, he would arrive back at the point of his death at [7:15:32 pm]

(10) Trayvon Martin was shot and killed at the spot indicated on this map on 2/26/2012 at [7:16:44]

How would the mother know he was on the back porch? Where did LE find the phone? Could it be the phone was on the back porch? jmo

 

[Nova]

...But I do not believe he set out to murder anybody, imo....

I agree with you, at least at the time GZ is speaking to the police dispatcher: he doesn't even seem sure of TM's race, much less determined to murder an African-American.

But GZ does sound really frustrated that police have been too slow in the past to catch burglars in the neighborhood. (Whether or not GZ muttered a racial slur.) I think it's quite possible GZ resolved that the intruder wasn't going to get away "this time".

And to me, at least, it's clear that GZ has resolved to follow TM when GZ tells the dispatcher to have the police call him when they get there (rather than simply agreeing to wait for them at his truck or at the mailboxes).

I don't know what all happened in the next two minutes before the gunshot, but I'm reasonably convinced that GZ was trying to keep tabs on TM.

 

[Adrienne37]

If there weren't protests this would be swept under the rug like so many other cases and GZ would be back on patrol with his gun on his hip.

Besides the fact that Trayvon was brutally murdered by Zimmerman, this is the next most concerning thing. Had it not been for Trayvon's wonderful parents, it would have been swept under the rug. It was already happening and praise the Lord that Sybrina and Tracy were not going to take no for an answer.



~jmo~

 

[Isabelle]

The thing that gets me is that GZ was on the phone with dispatch and sees TM and tells the call taker what he's doing and everything, then I listen to the 911 call from the female and she had to have heard commotion for a bit before placing the call then is on the phone for 45 seconds before you hear the shot. So they struggled for at least a minute.

What happened that GZ didn't shoot TM straight away.

May have taken time to get in front of TM.

ETA to correct from to front

 

[katydid23]

As far as TM making it to his back porch, that's what makes the most sense to me with all the parameters of the timeline, both before and afterwards, that we know about at this point. Obviously the question becomes how did he get back up to the point his body was located at and arrive at almost the same time it calculates for GZ to reach the same point walking back up the sidewalk?

I think there are two different possibilities but I don't think he was shot on his porch. I think he was on the porch doing 2 things, one of which may have been taking off that soaking wet hoodie as he watched out for this goon running around looking for him.

Well, if it did happen that way, and he was home safely at some point, that is not good for the prosecution. imo Why didn't he just go inside and call 911 or his dad or cousin?

If he left the safety of his home to go and confront GZ, then that leads me to believe that he threw the first punch.

 

[w1df10wr]

On Monday afternoon, a FOX 35 News crew met with Tracy Martin who said the victim in the shooting is her 17-year-old son, Trayvon, who was visiting from Miami.

"He walked out of the house to go to the store. He was going to the store," she said. "He doesn't know anybody here. He just came down here, so he was bored, so he walked down to the store. He was on his way back home. I'm living down here. He was sitting on the porch and this man killed him."

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1qpX1S895

RBBM - Shouldn't that be "his" and "he" instead of "her" & "she"? Or did they mean to put TM's mom's name instead of dad's.

Thank you very much for the link!

 

[iluvmua]

How would the mother know he was on the back porch? Where did LE find the phone? Could it be the phone was on the back porch? jmo

That's a good question.

but in the article they said Tracy Martin, So maybe they meant him and not the mother. It was one of the first articles to be published.

 

[katydid23]

How would the mother know he was on the back porch? Where did LE find the phone? Could it be the phone was on the back porch? jmo

BINGO. I wonder. But there are conflicting reports about the cell phone and who has it.

 

[Nova]

As far as TM making it to his back porch, that's what makes the most sense to me with all the parameters of the timeline, both before and afterwards, that we know about at this point. Obviously the question becomes how did he get back up to the point his body was located at and arrive at almost the same time it calculates for GZ to reach the same point walking back up the sidewalk?

I think there are two different possibilities but I don't think he was shot on his porch. I think he was on the porch doing 2 things, one of which may have been taking off that soaking wet hoodie as he watched out for this goon running around looking for him.

Was TM not wearing the hoodie when he was shot? If not, I missed that. TIA.

(And, again, thanks for the detailed timeline and map. I realize you had to fill in some blanks with conjecture (which you clearly identified), but the whole project was very, very helpful to me.)

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'm not sure I understand why Papa thinks TM made it all the way home and then turned around and followed GZ back the length of a football field to the place where TM died.

One explanation that occurs to me, however, is that TM knew there was no adult home at the time. Perhaps he didn't want to lead a stranger to a house where there was no one except his 13-year-old (I hope that's right) step-brother?

***

On a different note, I think TM's mother's remark about his being killed "on his own back porch" may just be an emotional metaphor, another way of saying TM was basically killed in his own back yard, i.e., at home where he should have been safe. I'm not convinced she meant it as a precise location.

I don't know for sure any of this, but I think there are two possible reasons he would walk back up to the point his body was found at.

(1) It may not have been voluntary on his part. There were statements made last week when the 911 calls were released, from the Martin's attorney about TWO gunshots being heard. One could have been a warning shot.

(2) I can't completely dismiss what I feel would likely have happened when I was that age. Rest assured, if some guy had chased and followed me like GZ did to Trayvon with no uniform, no badge, or anything else except a seemingly fanatical desire to find me? If he didn't have a gun that I could see?

We're gonna dance.