17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[nomoresorrow]

(BBM)

So I went to Google, typed in Shoot First, and the article which came up stated one of the "rules" for using this law is for the person who shoots first has to believe he is preventing "the commission of a forcible felony" I wonder what felony GZ thought Trayvon was in the process of doing?

RE: BBM ^^ Looking suspicious - last I checked though, "looking suspicious" isn't a crime. Key word in this case is "looking" and in George Zimmerman's subjective (and extremely flawed) opinion, he found some reason to find Trayvon suspicious. That reason had nothing to do with any acts Trayvon was/wasn't committing so that only leaves one other option - the way Trayvon looked... JMO~

 

[Gin]

You would think it is standard protocol particularly if someone is bleeding from injuries he sustained. It's very obvious by this video that there was no blood present anywhere on Zimmerman otherwise you would see the officers putting gloves on.


~jmo~

I have watched that video several times, and it is just so odd to me that they didn't immediately put on gloves before touching Zimmerman. Wouldn't they put gloves on for two reasons?

1. The jacket could be evidence
2. Possibility of blood contamination

And, another couple of questions, esteemed sleuthers, should the PO have taken the jacket at the scene and collected as evidence? Do we know if the jacket is in evidence, now?

 

[suzihawk]

JMO: When this goes to trial, if GZ is not found guilty, I believe we are going to see the sixties repeat itself. Whatever the outcome is for GZ, it's bad.

I'm sure there a lot of folks here that would agree with you. And I think for that very reason, they'd rather not see GZ prosecuted. For the greater good and all that. But perhaps that topic would be best discussed downstairs?

 

[Phoenixfla]

So I went to Google, typed in Shoot First, and the article which came up stated one of the "rules" for using this law is for the person who shoots first has to believe he is preventing "the commission of a forcible felony" I wonder what felony GZ thought Trayvon was in the process of doing?

According to GZ's story, the felony would have been the assult by TM on GZ, while TM was on top of GZ preventing him from getting help, which was wittnessed by the neighbor.

 

[songline]

JMO, and this is really, JMO:twocents:...others mmv

I don't think Trayvon is more of a victim because of his age. I think, though, there are people who are working as had as possible to minimize and (in their minds) equalize this case.

And this is some of the tortured logic that I've seen all over the place...it goes something like this...:maddening:

1. T. Martin 17..close enough to an adult, yea, he's an adult
2. G. Zimmerman, 28, an adult
So, on points 1 and 2, they were basically "even." :wink:

3. T. Martin had some sort of high school record
4. G. Zimmerman had some sort of Florida police record
So, on points 3 and 4 they were basically "even".:wink:

5. T Martin deliberately wore clothes that "identified" him as a potential criminal.
6. G. Zimmerman was a dedicated volunteer crime fighter, always watching for potential criminals.
So, on points 5 and 6 they were basically "even." :wink:

7. T. Martin had tea and skittles on him.
8. G. Zimmerman had a 9mm on him.
They both had something, so on points 7 and 8 they were basically "even." :wink:

Get my point??? If you can just "equalize" things in a way that seems somewhat acceptable, then this case might just become a
"He said, He said." :banghead:


Gosh, that's sad, but understandable..move along, nothing to see here.

Except...that this case is more accurately a "He said, He dead."
And this kind of logic (IMO) is patently ridiculous.

If I would do the same analogy I would get band
I sure can see a very different Trayvon then you all want to see.
He still deserves to be alive.
So in no way does my opinion of him negate that his parents deserve real answers.

I also can see a want to be cop, not a murderer...
Something needs to be done to curb this boy’s enthusiasm.
But I will not put him out to dry till all the facts are on the table.
I mean all the facts. Rushing to judgment is what the cops did and I did not like them doing it either.

My Brother in-law is a lawyer in Florida - he says IF GZ did not get out of his car
we would be looking at a different case. So while it was legal for him to get out of the car
it was a very bad decision, because even if Tryavon hit him first.

 

[songline]

There is nothing about the two that is similar. One is a murderer and THAT changes the definition of a child in the justice system. Trayvon was walking home minding his own business committing no crime-He died a child. Comparing the two is beyond apples and oranges.

I myself am never that certain he was minding his own business.
WELL...I am only sure he was NOT committing a crime at the time.

 

[RANCH]

The age of majority in every state is 18. Until that point, the person is considered a minor. Trayvon was days past 16. He was not days from 18.

A person at 17 can join the military---with parental consent. They can get married---with parental consent. They be emancipated---with parental consent. How many decisions require parental consent when a person is over 18? None.

Trayvon couldn't vote, smoke, drink, sign a contract, or even own a GUN because of his age. He was a child.

Even if we disagree amongst ourselves that Trayvon is considered a child or not, there's no disputing the fact that George Zimmerman is a GROWN *advertiser censored** MAN; he should have had the mentality, reasonableness and rationality that goes with that status.

I was just posting what a 17yr old person such as Trayvon could legally be allowed to do. Whether a 17yr old child should be allowed to operate a dangerous machine such as a car or be allowed to join the military and be given a deadly weapon is perhaps a question for another forum. But at this point in time it is legal for a 17 yr old to have these very serious responsibilities were a younger person would not. JMO.

 

[Karmady]

So I went to Google, typed in Shoot First, and the article which came up stated one of the "rules" for using this law is for the person who shoots first has to believe he is preventing "the commission of a forcible felony" I wonder what felony GZ thought Trayvon was in the process of doing?

I'm guessing aggravated assault or attempted murder.

 

[gxm]

The age of majority in every state is 18. Until that point, the person is considered a minor. Trayvon was days past 16. He was not days from 18.

A person at 17 can join the military---with parental consent. They can get married---with parental consent. They be emancipated---with parental consent. How many decisions require parental consent when a person is over 18? None.

Trayvon couldn't vote, smoke, drink, sign a contract, or even own a GUN because of his age. He was a child.

Even if we disagree amongst ourselves that Trayvon is considered a child or not, there's no disputing the fact that George Zimmerman is a GROWN *advertiser censored** MAN; he should have had the mentality, reasonableness and rationality that goes with that status.

This is not not exactly accurate. The age of majority does vary in some states. Also, if a minor marries or joins the service, or is emancipated, they are given majority. Keep in mind that many states allow teenagers to marry at 16 (with parental consent). Further, we don't often hear the phrase "child mother" as much as "teen mother." IMO, culturally, we do differentiate between teenagers and children, there's even something called a "tween" now. We use these words to define and separate developmental stages.

And I really don't understand why some people are not horrified by the senseless death of a young man or teenager and feel the need to call TM a child. He had just turned 17. I'm pretty sure that's a fact everyone is aware of. Just as we are all aware that he had his whole life in front of him. What word we use to describe his age doesn't change that.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[lillygator]

I myself am never that certain he was minding his own business.
WELL...I am only sure he was NOT committing a crime at the time.

this has always had me a bit baffled as well.

 

[LolaMoon08]

I personally would call Trayvon a "kid" as that is what I call my 17-year-old niece. She's just a kid.

I can also understand why some people do call Trayvon a child. He was Tracy and Sybrina's child. I think, especially parents, relate to this word because their child will always be their child and I think they can emotionally connect that Trayvon was their "child."

Chelsea King's parents lost their "child" and Britanee Drexel's parents still have a missing "child." These girls were both 17-years-old.

It is not being done to deceive anyone.

The same thing would happen if a child killed someone. Someone's "child" is a murderer.

MOO

 

[suzihawk]

If I would do the same analogy I would get band
I sure can see a very different Trayvon then you all want to see.
He still deserves to be alive.
So in no way does my opinion of him negate that his parents deserve real answers.

I also can see a want to be cop, not a murderer...
Something needs to be done to curb this boy’s enthusiasm.
But I will not put him out to dry till all the facts are on the table.
I mean all the facts. Rushing to judgment is what the cops did and I did not like them doing it either.

My Brother in-law is a lawyer in Florida - he says IF GZ did not get out of his car
we would be looking at a different case. So while it was legal for him to get out of the car
it was a very bad decision, because even if Tryavon hit him first.

I myself am never that certain he was minding his own business.
WELL...I am only sure he was NOT committing a crime at the time.

So... you're not willing to put the the 'enthusiatic boy' out to dry until all the facts are in but you're willing to readily accept that Trayvon was up to no good without those same facts? That's fair.

 

[katydid23]

I have a 17-year-old niece and I can tell you that she is not an adult? She may like to think she is sometimes, but she is not. She cannot buy cigarettes? She can not vote? She is protected under the "Child Labor Laws" of our wonderful Country. She has a strict curfew at home. She's not a child, but she's still just a kid! We never call victims like Chelsea King or Brittanee Drexel "adults" because we know they were just kids.

I don't think that anyone is trying to portray Trayvon as being less of a threat because he wasn't a threat at all.

You are 100% correct when you say that 17-year-old's can commit vile crimes. I just pointed out a case we had happen here recently... Trayvon was not one of "those" kids.

MOO

I never said he was an adult.

I am replying to the statement that this label is being used to make him less of a victim somehow.

And I was saying that calling him a 'child' makes it seem ridiculous that anyone would see him as any kind of a threat.

My point is that plenty of 17 yr olds are very threatening and very dangerous.

I NEVER said that TM was one of 'those' kids. Just saying that 17 yr olds can be quite dangerous to themselves and others.

 

[ynotdivein]

You may notice that this thread just got a bit shorter.

I hope there is some new news soon for you all to sleuth! In the meantime, please stick to the facts of THIS case.

There's enough tail-chasing going on today to make a puppy blush.

Dramamine for all, and if you get too dizzy, venture out and see if you can help on some of our Cold Cases. We promise to still be here when you get back.

Where this post lands is random, and :tyou:

 

[LolaMoon08]

I never said he was an adult.

I am replying to the statement that this label is being used to make him less of a victim somehow.

And I was saying that calling him a 'child' makes it seem ridiculous that anyone would see him as any kind of a threat.

My point is that plenty of 17 yr olds are very threatening and very dangerous.

I NEVER said that TM was one of 'those' kids. Just saying that 17 yr olds can be quite dangerous to themselves and others.

When a parents "child" is murdered... it will always be their "child." That "child" could be 40-years-old, but it is still that parents "child."

It is not being done to deceive anyone, but it is an emotional connection to Trayvon's parents because they understand that they lost their "child" and they can relate to that because they have children of their own.

MOO

 

[lillygator]

what are the next steps in the case? there is a bail hearing in May? I can't even remember if we got a new judge....

 

[LolaMoon08]

So... you're not willing to put the the 'enthusiatic boy' out to dry until all the facts are in but you're willing to readily accept that Trayvon was up to no good without those same facts? That's fair.

BBM :banghead:

That is all.

 

[Adrienne37]

If I would do the same analogy I would get band
I sure can see a very different Trayvon then you all want to see.
He still deserves to be alive.
So in no way does my opinion of him negate that his parents deserve real answers.

I also can see a want to be cop, not a murderer...
Something needs to be done to curb this boy’s enthusiasm.
But I will not put him out to dry till all the facts are on the table.
I mean all the facts. Rushing to judgment is what the cops did and I did not like them doing it either.

My Brother in-law is a lawyer in Florida - he says IF GZ did not get out of his car
we would be looking at a different case. So while it was legal for him to get out of the car
it was a very bad decision, because even if Tryavon hit him first.

So now Zimmerman at age 28 is a boy?


~jmo~

 

[katydid23]

When a parents "child" is murdered... it will always be their "child." That "child" could be 40-years-old, but it is still that parents "child."

It is not being done to deceive anyone, but it is an emotional connection to Trayvon's parents because they understand that they lost their "child" and they can relate to that because they have children of their own.

MOO

TRUE. He was their child.

But when describing GZ and his following someone he thought was suspicious, saying he was 'hunting down a child' seems disingenuous. Because he was following a teen who was about 6 ft tall, and obviously not a little child.

 

[Elley Mae]

what are the next steps in the case? there is a bail hearing in May? I can't even remember if we got a new judge....

That will probably take about three weeks, so it will look like a well thought out decision.