17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[cityslick]

Posted by cityslick:


OTOH, it appears GZ endorses the various versions his family and 'friends' put out in order to get his version of the story out there. I can't count the times Taaffe has said, "George wanted me to share this with you, <insert hosts' name>.

JMO

That doesn't mean it's true though. I just have a hard time finding all these other people credible in what they are telling us. It may have come directly from GZ, but I'm not so sure and I'm certainly not going to buy it because 'they say GZ told them'. They all seem very eager to go on these talk shows to get the 'story' out.

I'll find it more credible if I hear details coming out of GZ's mouth or better yet, from a LE interrogation.

 

[nomoresorrow]

(BBM)

I agree with you. I can’t wait for the reports and Ducu dumps to verify things. <mod snip>
Don’t forget when I saw the photo of the young 12 year old and the husky guy I immediately huffed and puffed about it too.
Then I saw who got involved and decided to look into it more clearly.

RE: BBM ^^ IMO That statement right there sums up why GZ is in the situation he's in today... because he based his suspicions/opinion on Trayvon's appearance. Unlike you it seems, many of us have formulated opinions, not based on the photos of Trayvon or George, but on the information we have/know thus far in this case. JMO~

 

[magnolia]

Not according to ACorey...read the charging document..it's clearly laid out..I don't get how in the heck folk can back this guy who took a teen's life for no other reason than HIM deeming TM a criminal...up to no good, on drugs or something...What the hell is wrong with America these days...:banghead:

We now blame the victim and praise the perpetrator???

I just don't follow that logic...:maddening:

I believe this is why our judicial system is in an uproar...blame the victim seems to be the mantra these days...when in fact, GZ should be held accountable for his actions...You both are just taking GZ's words as facts when his facts don't match the evidence...especially speaking on how and where this murder occurred...or the SP would not have brought charges she thought would not get to court...and the Judge who signed it agreed...there is probable cause to move forward..so we now say the judge and SP don't have a clue on the statutes? That we know more than they do? That this is to just appease the public pressure..:what:

I think not!

Are you saying we should just regard everything in the charging document as if it is fact? AC & team charged GZ with 2nd degree murder, so it is fact, they have enough evidence to support the charge??

 

[cityslick]

While I can certainly understand a "grain of salt" approach, both the father and brother have clearly said that this is how George Zimmerman told them what happened, and that they're only relating the story as he told it to them. They are basically acting as his advocates to the public during a time that he doesn't feel secure or able to advocate for himself. Both of their stories are very rehearsed, and nearly identical, which indicates to me that they're on the same page with the tale they've chosen to present to the media and the general public. It is hearsay, so obviously not admissible in court, but it's still a pretty clear vision of where their family stands with regard to what they're saying happened to him that night.

I don't have a problem with them telling a story as a whole, it's when we get down to details, where exactly GZ was when and where, etc, is when I don't pay as much mind to it. I was also led to believe the dog and pony show of those other two 'lawyers' and now I wonder if they ever heard the story from GZ.

 

[Concerned Papa]

So you're thinking the fight was kind of a mobile affair?

Curious, don't you think, that George's father described it in such stationary terms as to it's location?

BBM

Considering the fact that GZ's father wasn't there that night, I'm going to take his details (or lack thereof) of what happened with a grain of salt.

I understand GZ isn't talking and all we have to go on is these other people who weren't even there giving accounts of what happened, but I'm not sure why we are putting that much stock into it. It's a 2nd or 3rd hand account of something they heard or maybe even didn't hear and are just making the story up as they go. Then folks want to know why the stories are not consistant.

I take their entire storyline with a grain of salt because I don't see how it could happen as described.

However, George was certainly there, and as such, the part of my qoute that is being referenced has considerably more than just George's father's account. According to information leaked to the Orlando Sentinel, the "details" of George and his father's accounts of the "attack" are almost word for word the same:

This is what the Sentinel has learned about Zimmerman's account to investigators:

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police. Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose, according to the account he gave police.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began and began beating him.

Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense.

After the Sentinel story appeared online Monday morning, City Manager Norton Bonaparte Jr. issued a news release, saying there would be an internal-affairs investigation into the source of the leak and, if identified, the person or people involved would be disciplined.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager

Kindas hard to discredit the validity of this article when the City Manager of Sanford, FL verified it's accuracy.

 

[cityslick]

(BBM)


RE: BBM ^^ IMO That statement right there sums up why GZ is in the situation he's in today... because he based his suspicions/opinion on Trayvon's appearance. Unlike you it seems, many of us have formulated opinions, not based on the photos of Trayvon or George, but on the information we have/know thus far in this case. JMO~

BBM

Unfortunately, people do this every day. Now granted, a vast majority don't take it to the level that GZ did, but people judge on appearance all the time, many times wrongly so. Someone sees a mother spanking her child in public these days and who knows what sort of thoughts are going in their mind, except the obvious one, they she is disciplining her child (which is her right).

And not everyone formulates opinions on this board based on facts/evidence. How many times do we see cases on here where folks post things like 'I had him/her guilty from day one'. And it's not just relegated to this forum, it's society in general. We've become a 'accuse first, ask questions later' society.

 

[suzihawk]

While I can certainly understand a "grain of salt" approach, both the father and brother have clearly said that this is how George Zimmerman told them what happened, and that they're only relating the story as he told it to them. They are basically acting as his advocates to the public during a time that he doesn't feel secure or able to advocate for himself. Both of their stories are very rehearsed, and nearly identical, which indicates to me that they're on the same page with the tale they've chosen to present to the media and the general public. It is hearsay, so obviously not admissible in court, but it's still a pretty clear vision of where their family stands with regard to what they're saying happened to him that night.

ITA, PA. And, BTW, I totally enjoy the way you express yourself so clearly and eloquently.

But I'm not so sure about the BBM above. If I'm not mistaken, Richard Hornsby said it would be admissable in court.

IMO

 

[annalia]

So there's a video of an interview with Tracy and Brandy the day after Trayvon was murdered? I would like to see this. Back to Google I go

Here's the video, at around 1:10 listen to her words in context, she's not saying that Trayvon made it home or that he was on the porch when he was killed. She is obviously rambling about everything he had been doing while he was visiting, as if to say she can't believe that he wasn't doing anything while he was visiting and wound up being shot. And common sense would say that if Tracy Martin is telling exactly the spot where Trayvon was killed, Brandy wouldn't be saying that he was sitting on the porch when he was killed.

She is obviously upset and doesn't appear to be giving a timeline of events as they occurred, or saying that Trayvon had made it home.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1qpX1S895

JMHO

 

[Emeralgem]

So you're thinking the fight was kind of a mobile affair?

Curious, don't you think, that George's father described it in such stationary terms as to it's location?[/QUOTE]

BBM

Considering the fact that GZ's father wasn't there that night, I'm going to take his details (or lack thereof) of what happened with a grain of salt.I understand GZ isn't talking and all we have to go on is these other people who weren't even there giving accounts of what happened, but I'm not sure why we are putting that much stock into it. It's a 2nd or 3rd hand account of something they heard or maybe even didn't hear and are just making the story up as they go. Then folks want to know why the stories are not consistant.

Please, correct me IF I am wrong, but I thought I read GZ's father was allowed on the scene that night..Did the SPD give him the information he has been spewing? JMHO

 

[cityslick]

I take their entire storyline with a grain of salt because I don't see how it could happen as described.

However, George was certainly there, and as such, the part of my qoute that is being referenced has considerably more than just George's father's account. According to information leaked to the Orlando Sentinel, the "details" of George and his father's accounts of the "attack" are almost word for word the same:



Kindas hard to discredit the validity of this article when the City Manager of Sanford, FL verified it's accuracy.

Where in the article does it go into details of who was where, whether it was a 'mobile affair' as your previous post was asking?

 

[cityslick]

Please, correct me IF I am wrong, but I thought I read GZ's father was allowed on the scene that night.. JMHO

That's news to me if that's the case. He still wasn't there when the incident happened, he wasn't an eyewitness.

 

[suzihawk]

That doesn't mean it's true though. I just have a hard time finding all these other people credible in what they are telling us. It may have come directly from GZ, but I'm not so sure and I'm certainly not going to buy it because 'they say GZ told them'. They all seem very eager to go on these talk shows to get the 'story' out.

I'll find it more credible if I hear details coming out of GZ's mouth or better yet, from a LE interrogation.

BBM - On this point we agree.

 

[Isabelle]

and that doesn't seem embellished to you?

He was walking fine and dandy being brought to the police station...he refused an ambulance that was called for him...he walked on his own two feet with hands handcuffed behind his back...Quite a fete for someone with one head hit away from wearing diapers...Puhleeze.......:banghead:

He still hasn't shown any evidence of head trauma, and more important, there has been no medical record presented to the public. I'll wait for the record, kind of picky like that! Family may have 'filled in the blanks' creatively.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Are you saying we should just regard everything in the charging document as if it is fact? AC & team charged GZ with 2nd degree murder, so it is fact, they have enough evidence to support the charge??

YES...they found enough evidence to bring the Issue Capias to a judge who agreed and was given the probable cause affidavit...the rest will either be proven or disproven at trial...but there was enough evidence against GZ at this point to move forward...

 

[Adrienne37]

ITA, PA. And, BTW, I totally enjoy the way you express yourself so clearly and eloquently.

But I'm not so sure about the BBM above. If I'm not mistaken, Richard Hornsby said it would be admissable in court.

IMO

Yes suzi you are correct. Here is Mr. Hornsby's answer when Dr. Fessel posted that question to him....

04-15-2012, 09:30 PM
rhornsby
Board Certified Criminal Trial Lawyer

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel
If one of George's friends gets on TV and says well George told me this and George told me that, could the SA make them take the stand and then question them about what George told them from what they said on TV?

Yes, they could.


This post can be found on thread #25, post #661.

 

[Emeralgem]

That's news to me if that's the case. He still wasn't there when the incident happened, he wasn't an eyewitness.

I have never stated he was an eyewitness, however IF he was allowed on the scene that night, after the fact, and SPD gave him information as to what happened it's more than they did for Trayvon's father... My understanding is the SPD promised TM's father a walk through and never made good on their promise...JMHO

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Here's the video, at around 1:10 listen to her words in context, she's not saying that Trayvon made it home or that he was on the porch when he was killed. She is obviously rambling about everything he had been doing while he was visiting, as if to say she can't believe that he wasn't doing anything while he was visiting and wound up being shot. And common sense would say that if Tracy Martin is telling exactly the spot where Trayvon was killed, Brandy wouldn't be saying that he was sitting on the porch when he was killed.

She is obviously upset and doesn't appear to be giving a timeline of events as they occurred, or saying that Trayvon had made it home.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...led-in-neighborhood-altercation#ixzz1qpX1S895

JMHO

I hadn't seen that video yet, so thank you for posting it. I agree that she was not giving a timeline of events, but was just very emotional; it felt to me like she was saying, he was just here sitting on the porch, alive, and now he's gone.

I wish I knew what "John" meant when he says he told Zimmerman to "stop" so he could go call 911. Stop what? And if he saw Zimmerman receiving some sort of vicious beating, why would he just leave him there?

 

[nomoresorrow]

BBM

Unfortunately, people do this every day. Now granted, a vast majority don't take it to the level that GZ did, but people judge on appearance all the time, many times wrongly so. Someone sees a mother spanking her child in public these days and who knows what sort of thoughts are going in their mind, except the obvious one, they she is disciplining her child (which is her right).

And not everyone formulates opinions on this board based on facts/evidence. How many times do we see cases on here where folks post things like 'I had him/her guilty from day one'. And it's not just relegated to this forum, it's society in general. We've become a 'accuse first, ask questions later' society.

Your analogy, in this case, doesn't fit IMO. I was simply referring to one's appearance, not any actions they were engaged in. And, in this case, I have seen/heard no evidence of Trayvon being engaged in any suspicious activity - the only thing that GZ based his suspicions on were based on appearance - PERIOD IMO.

 

[lillygator]

It was pouring rain.

was it pouring? If so, why was TM out walking? I don;t think I recall reading it was pouring, I'd also like to know if it was rainging when he left.

I think that Rick Scott is making up stories. I also think he has to.
<mod snip>
:moo::moo::moo::moo:

I do as well, can't wait til he is out of office.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Where in the article does it go into details of who was where, whether it was a 'mobile affair' as your previous post was asking?

Seems to me that someone on the ground being beaten by someone on top pretty well defines the "affair" being "stationary" as opposed to "mobile" and was clearly the ONLY point of my original comment being referenced.