17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #31

[Sensei]

At this point GZ did not know if Trayvon had a gun or not.

no but George Zimmerman knew he had a gun, and it is not a huge stretch to suggest that the knowlege that he had a gun in case something went wrong made him bolder and more aggressive that he might have been otherwise.

but somehow we are supposed to believe George's story that the kid with the candy and no history of violent behavior was the aggressive one who hit first, and not the persistant following guy with a history of violent behavior in the past older and with more experience and with a loaded gun who only wanted to ask questions in an aggressive manner and keep the kid here for LE to question. IMO JMHO and stuff.

 

[sherryk]

When people sates that GZ called 911 are they aware he called the non emergency dispatch ( my city and most others have it so 911 isnt clogged up with calls that are not life threating at that moment)

so GZ called non emergency.. due to his life wasnt in danger at that time. The non emergency dispatch is not an officer (which to me they are acting on belhalf of the police department so I will say technically not an officer) The dispatch told him you dont "need" to follow him.. that was not saying specifically retreat, go the other way... just you dont need to follow him was to me more like a suggestion.

To follow somone that you think is suspicious is not a crime.. i have called police and stayed behind a drunk driver so i didnt lose track..however no i did not get out of my car but i certanly followed a suspisious person that YES I was profiling as DRUNK.

There are some on news and interviews that state why the dispatch or GZ say somthing to the extent of ok I will call you back in a (dispatch to zimmerman) that is nothing out of the ordinary.. when I have called police or non emergency they first ask for basically a life history from me.. .including telephone number and they have called back when phone disconnected in a domestic argument. I do not have issue with the dispatch stating he would call back.. (possible to get the address GZ was attempting to find)

some of the shows on such as JVM have really irritated me.. for two days her question was why did zimmerman and dispatch and police report state so many times that Martin was a black male... hello???? when you call 911 or non emergency they as race and gender and what the person has on, if they are known to have weapons, color of shirt and pants, if they are alone, what direction etc..police reports have the same information to identiify a person (martin was a john doe at some point due to no id)

think of it this way.. if i call 911 to a white man who is walking and i feel that i need to report him for whatever I FEEL may be a crime or potential crime... should I state there is a man walking down the street and only give his shirt color and not state it is hooded or a jacket hood where i can not see his face... if those facts were left out then the responding officer may very well stop an innocent white male in any color clothes and jacket or no jacket and stop the wrong person while a potential break in or other possible crime is committed... I just dont see where the hoodie and stating he is a black male plays into this... the words "these Punks"... I have punks in my neighborhood that range from 14 to 25 that are white, black, asian, hispanic all races that I most certainly would call punks.. due to two reasons.. punk is a word that most younger generation use.. i used it when i was younger didnt mean a BLACK person.. when I use it now refering to kids in neighborhood.. i say to myself.. ok punks get out of the street, ( incidentally the group of kids in my neighborhood.. vandelize vacent houses, steal bikes, fight with smaller kids, curse at adults, egg houses) I dont think punk fits that.. In fact they are thugs.. and that means to me trouble makers with no regard to anyone else... so TM being callled or refered to as a punk is not a racial slur, it is not profiling... it is simply a word... what if GZ used the word "these idiots or these people"

It doesnt matter to some.. GZ could of used the phrase " these sweet boys or these neighborhood kids ) and some still would have issue with it.

I will be interested in how it play out in court.. which side can present the best case with facts.. my words are only opinions and will be before I get the facts.. but at this point I am leaning 80% that GZ was overcharged and perhaps should not have been charged due to IF and only IF TM did come back to confront him that would make TM the aggressor.. and the mere fact of one blow to the head on the concrete most certainly cause great bodily harm.. what was GZ supposed to do.. wait untill his head was bashed what maybe 10 more times and then say... ohhhh my.. i think I am in danger of bodily harm or death...The person in danger has instint and if he felt he was honestly in danger for his life then stand your ground applies. The age of a 17 year old varies and their stregnth.. I have a 17 year old who is 5.0 even and tiny... I have friends of my 17 year old who are 5.9 to 6.2 who i do not know their weight but i know they are very physically fit due to I see their football drills and they are strong .. stonger than some men.. didnt TM play football since he was a small child.. that builds muscle and a well fit young man.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Just what he was doing IMO.

. stalked, stalk·ing, stalks
v.intr.
1. To walk with a stiff, haughty, or angry gait: stalked off in a huff.
2. To move threateningly or menacingly.
3. To track prey or quarry.
v.tr.
1. To pursue by tracking stealthily.
2. To follow or observe (a person) persistently, especially out of obsession or derangement.
3. To go through (an area) in pursuit of prey or quarry.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/stalk

 

[cityslick]

No. I don't know how many credits he was away from graduating? If you know, I would love to know?

I don't, I didn't know if it was published somewhere or not, hence the question.

 

[Concerned Papa]

JMHO:
"we" as the public need to lease: anticipate that the prosecution has been as diligent as our WS members and also that THE QUESTIONS are asked, the inconsistencies as noted are EMPHASIZED rather than *advertiser censored*-U-ME the jury panel (OR the judge if a SYG hearing occurs) will "catch on"/apply intuitive logical thought processes! :banghead::banghead::banghead:

I have a sneaking feeling they know :rocker:

 

[magnolia]

Because rumors start like wildfire?

I doubt very seriously Zimmerman is out there without any protection at all.

 

[impatientredhead]

IMO/JMO
Fishy indeed. I believe there is a high likelihood the gun was discussed.

On another subject from the bond hearing-- The answers to who knew what about the website and the cash it's bringing in were also fishy to me. Wouldn't a family discuss all possible avenues to get their dear husband/son out of jail? Of course they would.
When everyone seemed to turn into Sargent Shultz (I know noth-thing!!)
my hinky meter went off.

I caught that as well and someone said up thread that MOM was probono but I have not seen that in the court records (I may have missed it an updated status). But being this is an SYG case I find it highly unlikely that MOM would make that declaration. As posted in the statute if GZ gets immunity now, or is acquitted the state has to pay all of his bills related to this. And that is not at a reduced rate like death penalty attorneys that work at the rate paid to a public defender, although they get that reduced rate win or lose. MOM only gets paid if he wins in this case as far as the state goes. What he has arranged with his client in the case of a loss, probono or otherwise I have no idea.

I think the real problem if they do get a trial is how many of the witnesses called are home owners in the park? There is lots of talk about the HOA being sued in a wrongful death suit, especially with the written directive to call the police and then George. If George gets standing under stand your ground they not only have to pay all of his expenses but that comes with civil immunity. If all the witnesses are home owners who now are subject to possible financial crisis and property loss under a wrongful death suit and gain from a justified shooting/immunity ruling.... well that is a pretty big conflict of interest in my book.

 

[jaded cat]

To me here is the rub, I have not seen anyone say GZ was justified. Seen lots of debate about the law and how it applies. But even the people who think as it is written he walks have all said it is wrong and needs to be fixed. I have not read every post and I rarely read on the unmoderated boards because the racial and idiotic arguments that take over 99 percent of the topics, especially this one.

Do I think GZ was justified in shooting TM, no, not at all. I think GZ put himself in harms way and then claimed to be in fear. Well if I step off the curb into the way of a bus I am going to be afraid too, doesn't mean the bus driver could have done something different to avoid it.

Do I think GZ is being prosecuted solely because this case came under political pressure, based on them not filing the first time they had the option too, the previous cases which will probably lead to his eventual immunity, etc.... yes I think he was charged because of public outrage.

That is fine with me though. Something was going to happen to bring this legal standard into a bright light and think everyone agrees that needs to happen. IMO etc

Excellent post, cuts right to the heart of the matter for me. :rocker:

 

[sherryk]

As far as images in news to portray client in a better light... that is his right. Does GZ have no right to show whom he is.. does he need to wear a devil's suit to be presumed to dress correctly.

TM has had the same done for him in the news and his attorneys. The fact that TM has had issues with suspension from school for absence (which is no big deal to me if out due to parental permission) the fact TM was suspended for two weeks due to possesion of traces of illegal substance in bag.. That has pretty much been hush hush and disregarded by media and TM family attorney as ohhhhhh that is just kid stuff...

If my kid had drugs on him.. let me tell you that is NOT kid stuff and I would consider it a crime because possesion is a crime or pharaphanlia. I live in Florida. TM could of been taken to Juvinile over the possesion. I think the opposiing sides need to be fair.

May they present TM in the best light possible if that is what his peers and parents know of him.... and may the same apply for GZ if that is what his friends, family and peers know of his personalty and apperance..

Just tying to be fair.

 

[impatientredhead]

I'm pretty sure you could tell the difference. Obviously Trayvon knew this guy was following him, and he was right, George was following him.

MOO

Yes all parties agree. GZ said he was following him when asked. TM told his girlfriend he was being followed. Everyone agrees. Following and stalking, stalking as defined as a crime, are two entirely different things.

 

[wishuwerehere]

I doubt very seriously Zimmerman is out there without any protection at all.

It's all about making Zimmerman look like the victim, then and now. It's his defense. It's all carp, but his defense nonetheless.

jmo

 

[Boytwnmom]

with piranhas and giant snakes or just a place in Florida USA where mostly AA people lived? Somehow, I think the second would sound like a more "dangerous" place to this family. I'm sorry, that whole thing sounded so racist. Families with kids live there but it's too dangerous for a grown man with a gun and tactical flashlight? Or maybe she's just really easily scared. I don't know. I'm not trying to be mean but some of these things just sound ridiculous.

That whole line of questioning was pointless to me. Where exactly was this place that Zimmerman was going that was so dangerous?

There's so much wrong with this case it's hard to even wrap your head around it.


~jmo~

 

[impatientredhead]

I don't think it's relevant either. When you look at the events that happened BEFORE the "confrontation how can anyone justify the actual shooting?

Did GZ fear for his life while sitting in his car? NO
if he did GZ wouldn't have gotten out of his car.

Did GZ fear for his life when he continued to follow Tray? NO
if he did he would have never ended up exchanging words with Tray face to face.

IMO, here you have GZ moving TOWARDS the confrontation because Tray was moving AWAY from it.

So how can anyone justify GZ killing this boy? Really I would just prefer someone to just tell me that they could care less about some young black teen being shot down than try to justify the killing.

To add on to this train of thought and how they are going to defend your questions, GZ didn't shoot from the safety of his car, and he didn't shoot him in the back while following him, TM was on top of him and GZ shot him out of fear of being injured or killed. Which is what is wrong with the law, but the other two scenarios aren't the scenario in which GZ shot TM so the as far as defending them he doesn't haven't to. Not currently anyway.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

with piranhas and giant snakes or just a place in Florida USA where mostly AA people lived? Somehow, I think the second would sound like a more "dangerous" place to this family. I'm sorry, that whole thing sounded so racist. Families with kids live there but it's too dangerous for a grown man with a gun and tactical flashlight? Or maybe she's just really easily scared. I don't know. I'm not trying to be mean but some of these things just sound ridiculous.

I would really like to know what kind of mentoring you can do once every two weeks.

 

[Zak]

And I can't wait to hear his answers, to those questions. I think his major slipup was not realizing that when he called LE dispatch the calls are recorded and timestamped and just did not think out a reasonable timeframe for him to be where he was, he just knew he could not admit to following and trying to stop Trayvon...and it's going to bite him in the Keister. IMO JMHO and stuff.

BBM
Please someone correct me if I am wrong, but I thought I heard the dispatcher state at the beginning of the call that it was being recorded.

 

[jaded cat]

I doubt very seriously Zimmerman is out there without any protection at all.

I hope not! I'd like this to play out according to the law and whatever happens is what happens. He deserves a fair hearing and/or trial.

What I don't want to see is some TH on TV saying, "Attention everyone, GZ will be at the Walmart on Oak and Turner around noon! Head on over and say hello!"

This whole thing is such a mess, I don't see how everyone will be satisfied with the outcome. Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton are in my thoughts every day because their 17 yo son is dead. No outcome will cure their grief.

 

[HiHater]

Please provide a link showing GZ pulled out his gun while he was following TM. I think TM would have run home if he had known GZ had a gun.

He was running home, so I think you just proved the other poster's point in a way...

:moo:

 

[Gin]

I would really like to know what kind of mentoring you can do once every two weeks.

Good point Dr. F.
Another question I have is are the mentors required to be weapon free while mentoring children/teens?

 

[HiHater]

I would really like to know what kind of mentoring you can do once every two weeks.

Why haven't the black kids that he mentored issued any sort of statement, even anonymously?

that's telling IMO

 

[Adrienne37]

with piranhas and giant snakes or just a place in Florida USA where mostly AA people lived? Somehow, I think the second would sound like a more "dangerous" place to this family. I'm sorry, that whole thing sounded so racist. Families with kids live there but it's too dangerous for a grown man with a gun and tactical flashlight? Or maybe she's just really easily scared. I don't know. I'm not trying to be mean but some of these things just sound ridiculous.

Thanks, you said it much better than I could.


~jmo~