2009.05.01 Document Release: "FBI FORENSIC REPORT" ONLY!

[Brini]

For people not prone to seizures, why would this drug be prescribed when there are others available, like Alprazolam, to relieve anxiety?

What would be the reason, if one had anxiety, that a doctor would "up" the drug. If a person needed an aide to mellow out, why would they need a potent anticonvulsant along with it when they had never convulsed before? Is there a particular reason a Doctor would prescribe this drug to a middle aged woman who, understandably so, was having anxiety AND taking Lexapro to fight depression, if the drug is a known trigger of depression? Makes no sense to me why CA would have this particular drug in combination with the others prescribed to her.

That said, if it had not been documented that KC had suffered a seizure in 2007, I could give a rats arse what CA is taking. I'm suspicious that an anti-convulsant is among the drugs found in the home. Could CA be prone to seizures as well as KC?
.

I wouldn't read anything into this.

I've been on Klonopin, myself, for migraine prophylaxis. It is often prescribed, for that. It can trigger depression in SOME people. Others do JUST fine on it.

A LOT of drugs have multiple uses, other than the ones for which they were created. And, drugs work differently on different people. For instance, some people can't take ANY benzodiazepine for anxiety. They have to use other drugs.

Beta adrenergic inhibitors, for instance, are used mainly for hypertension. However, they are also used for anxiety, stage-fright, and migraine prophylaxis.

Calcium channel blockers are also used for hypertension and migraine.

Elevil is an anti-depressant. However, it's also prescribed for chronic pain.

Some anti-depressants are prescribed for anxiety. There's one has been used for obsessive compulsive disorder

In fact, antidepressants were discovered serendipitously as a result of ANTIHISTAMINE research.

In addition, many people have a few different drugs in their drug cabinet, because the doctor may have had to try a few before finding the right one. Many drugs have to be "titrated" up or down before the right dosage is found. Antidepressants are ONE example of this. Antihypertensives, anticonvulsants, and any psychotropic are others. There are dozens of others along the pharmaceutical spectrum.

If CA is on an anticonvulsant, that does not mean that she has a convulsive disorder. She may get migraines. They also may be the only drug that is effective for anxiety, for her.

That KC had ONE convulsion does not mean she has a convulsive disorder, either.

There are plenty of suspicious goings on, in that family. But, I see nothing suspicious, whatever, in CA's medicine cabinet.

And, I'm a nurse. I see plenty of medicine cabinet contents.

 

[Rumpole]

Yes yes this is what I've believed to be the case but I like ur description of "mental chess" better. It's not that i believe LE is withholding anything to keep it from defense, it's just that most everything that has been released seemed to not be the evidence we've heard they had, like the heart sticker on duct tape. they've not released that report or a pic so did they release the Heart/Mat sticker as a temporary substitute?

It seems obvious to me that Prosecution would work within the rules to delay releasing their best stuff. That's what I'd do?
To me what they are releasing is an indication of what is NOT the most critical evidence. Yet more proof (circumstantial) that things are NOT going to play a part in the trial, like:
Metal fragments (bullet)
22 pairs of shoes
Kitchen knife
Cloro-bleedin-form
Cindys meds
OTC meds
Any Meds
Fingerprints(v slight possibility of KC still)
Disposable camera
Soil from car
shovel
Snake
Have I missed some?
Etc

 

[Brini]

~~~~Respectfully snipped for space and bolded by me~~~~~

Brini, I've been following this case for too long and I've read every piece of evidence except for the last doc dump. I can't seem to recall what piece of evidence you are referring to as having Caylee's DNA in the trunk. I thought the only piece of evidence which might tie Caylee to the trunk was the hair with the apparent decomposition band? If I missed this then I need to go back and look over some stuff. TIA.

It was the analysis of the decomp chemicals in the trunk.

 

[Brini]

Before the body was found, I knew KC must have done it (cept when the A's began acting so defensive and protective I began questioning their involvement which complicated and still complicates my thinking).

Here's the thing though - I've heard time and time again that Sociopaths are usually intelligent. Noone is claiming that KC is even very smart (which will be proven if she is responsible for the duct tape). What I am getting at is, why would she leave behind evidence that directly ties the body to her daughter and then back to herself? That was just flat out dumb. Why wouldn't she have left the body with nothing personal attached to it? AD, her best friend, said KC could not have done this by herself.

SOME sociopaths are intelligent. Bundy is a criminal one. Intelligent sociopaths are also often successful CEOs and politicians.

But, the prisons are FULL of sociopaths who are dumb as dirt. IQ of a cinder block.

That sociopaths are always intelligent is a myth.

 

[Brini]

I know. So would that make KC a dumb Sociopath? We know she is not an intelligent or even a smart person as per AD. That was my point. Sociopaths are known to conduct their crimes in an intelligent fashion. :waitasec:

Nope. A very high precentage of incarcerated criminals are DUMB sociopaths.

Also, most sociopaths are not criminals, and are of fairly average intelligence. They tend to have chaotic personal lives.

They can be very tough to be around. Sociopathic patients, smart, stupid, or in between tend to be mendacious and manipulative.

 

[christee]

It seems obvious to me that Prosecution would work within the rules to delay releasing their best stuff. That's what I'd do?
To me what they are releasing is an indication of what is NOT the most critical evidence. Yet more proof (circumstantial) that things are NOT going to play a part in the trial, like:
Metal fragments (bullet)
22 pairs of shoes
Kitchen knife
Cloro-bleedin-form
Cindys meds
OTC meds
Any Meds
Fingerprints(v slight possibility of KC still)
Disposable camera
Soil from car
shovel
Snake
Have I missed some?
Etc

Oh I hate to pull a Nancy-ism but I believe there is a Bombshell coming. The more I think abt it the more sense it makes!
As for the 3 amigo A's (is it ok to say that?) I know their prints were not on the tape but they didn't say KC's WERE NOT on the tape. I hink that's because her prints were on the tape! I believe our Mat/Heart sticker did not fall off and leave the adhesive residue found on tape, but not sure if Heart/mat sticker was left by KC UNLESS it was from a framed photo left with Caylee. Does the phrase "Smoke and Mirrors" apply to all the evidence released so far?
Ditto on your "etc" HP!

:crosseyed:

 

[Brini]

Oh I hate to pull a Nancy-ism but I believe there is a Bombshell coming. The more I think abt it the more sense it makes!
As for the 3 amigo A's (is it ok to say that?) I know their prints were not on the tape but they didn't say KC's WERE NOT on the tape. I hink that's because her prints were on the tape! I believe our Mat/Heart sticker did not fall off and leave the adhesive residue found on tape, but not sure if Heart/mat sticker was left by KC UNLESS it was from a framed photo left with Caylee. Does the phrase "Smoke and Mirrors" apply to all the evidence released so far?
Ditto on your "etc" HP!

:crosseyed:

Yeah. I kinda missed her name on that list of fingerprints, too.

 

[magic-cat]

I know. So would that make KC a dumb Sociopath? We know she is not an intelligent or even a smart person as per AD. That was my point. Sociopaths are known to conduct their crimes in an intelligent fashion. :waitasec:

Begging your pardon, but the prisons are FULL of dumb sociopaths. They come in all shapes and mental capacities. The INTELLIGENT ones are CEO's of huge corportations and such-not sitting in the hooskow...:blowkiss: Sociopathy and intelligence do NOT go hand in hand. That is a misconception.

 

[Rumpole]

Oh I hate to pull a Nancy-ism but I believe there is a Bombshell coming. The more I think abt it the more sense it makes!
As for the 3 amigo A's (is it ok to say that?) I know their prints were not on the tape but they didn't say KC's WERE NOT on the tape. I hink that's because her prints were on the tape! I believe our Mat/Heart sticker did not fall off and leave the adhesive residue found on tape, but not sure if Heart/mat sticker was left by KC UNLESS it was from a framed photo left with Caylee. Does the phrase "Smoke and Mirrors" apply to all the evidence released so far?
Ditto on your "etc" HP!

:crosseyed:

Bombshell: Ng reads document dump and reports the facts correctly!
Nah! Won't happen!

I agree :cat: results for KC's prints are conspicuous by their absence, so that would be on my list of possible definitive pieces of evidence that COULD be coming. It is though just one of several.

My point stands that there are several such possibles and we should not be despondent about the lack of "Bombshells" in the documents so far!

Don't Panic!

 

[Marina2]

Brini - I'm hoping you're still on when I'm done typing this post. I just remembered something from my first "sit-in" autopsy...If somebody has a bodily infection or virus, and they die while having said virus, decomposition would speed up...making it appear as if the person was deceased for a longer period of time. If Caylee was sick when she died, her skin might not have hardened as quickly, considering the fact that she really could have been sick and the infection could have continued it's festering within her tiny body. What about if Casey actually buried Caylee in the back yard, then dug her up and placed her in the trunk...maybe she actually wasn't in the trunk for 2 days as previously suspected, but maybe her infection seeped and made it look that way - kind of like a pot boiling over with pent up steam which needs to evaporate. Maybe that's how the decomp got in the car? Sorry for the off the wall post, but I just remembered I learned this and I'm wondering if it really could have been the case. If so, I'm wondering if it could change the timeline at all? Infection can speed up decomp, and the Florida heat can compound that even farther. If this is the case - I wonder if anybody else from the Anthony's or Casey's group of friends is hiding something else... Hmmm. This is something we didn't even think of. You're a nurse, waddaya think? Their timeline has been bothering me for such a long time, now I can finally put my finger on why it's been bothering me. If Caylee was sick with a virus/ flu, and if Casey gave her Benadryl or Dimatap for whatever reason (or anything else like it), then the sugars in those OTC's would attract flies even more so than a usual corpse. Having said this, what about if the Duct Tape was placed over little Caylee's mouth/nose area after Casey saw bugs? Maybe the larvae made her sick to think about or something...maybe that's the reason for the kiss with a heart sticker? Just thinkin'...but...if this is the case, how does it affect either side from a legal aspect? Hmmm...

I don't think Caylee had a flu virus when she died. Children her age are very ill for days when they get the flu. In the video of her at the nursing home she doesn't appear ill at all.

I don't know how infection speeds of the rate of decomposition. I do know that a viral infection won't continue after the death of it's host cells. Viruses invade and use living cells to reproduce because they can't do this on their own. A viral infection wouldn't seep out after reaching a boiling point, so to speak, because reproduction stops when it's host cells die. Maybe a bacterial, skin infection? I can see how this might affect the rate of decay.

Undigested food in a body will affect decomp depending on what food is in the stomach at death. However, the sugars in an OTC med will begin to metabolize immediately after ingesting it. I don't think any would be there when flies arrived on the scene. Not enough to attract them any quicker.

If the thought or sight of maggots disgusted KC, how could she bear to unwrap Caylee, see her decomposing body and place duct tape on her mouth? I think she wrapped her immediately and never looked at her again. It just doesn't make sense to me that she would fiddle around with her decomposing body in order to put duct tape and a heart sticker on her mouth because she couldn't stand the thought or sight of maggots.

I have a lot of faith in the timeline regarding the stage of decomposition. For me, it's one of the few things we have that's reliable enough to discard or form thoeries around.

 

[abbra]

The prescriptions found that were on the list were all filled in the name of Cindy Anthony. Even if KC had a " seizure" of sorts she would have had her own prescription for the seizures. No respected doctor in his right mind would write a prescription for one person to give to another person. If it was found out he would lose his license. KC is also an adult and responsible for her own health.
I think the question here about the meds is " Was KC taking Seizure Meds prescribed to her and what were the meds?" Also in NY you have to be seizure free for I think its 5 yrs before they will let you get a drivers license.

If Cindy and George knowingly let KC who had/has seizures drive their vehicles especially with Caylee in the car , they could be held responsible for any accidents that happened when KC was behind the wheel.

 

[spqr]

I know I read it somewhere...Caylee was taking/had taken.."Gentimicin". I believe that is a type of anti-viral/anti-bacterial meds. Anyone remember this?

 

[whiteangora]

I know I read it somewhere...Caylee was taking/had taken.."Gentimicin". I believe that is a type of anti-viral/anti-bacterial meds. Anyone remember this?

That was on the list of meds from the December search warrant.
I'm pretty sure the Gentimicin was in ointment form.

 

[Brini]

The prescriptions found that were on the list were all filled in the name of Cindy Anthony. Even if KC had a " seizure" of sorts she would have had her own prescription for the seizures. No respected doctor in his right mind would write a prescription for one person to give to another person. If it was found out he would lose his license. KC is also an adult and responsible for her own health.
I think the question here about the meds is " Was KC taking Seizure Meds prescribed to her and what were the meds?" Also in NY you have to be seizure free for I think its 5 yrs before they will let you get a drivers license.

If Cindy and George knowingly let KC who had/has seizures drive their vehicles especially with Caylee in the car , they could be held responsible for any accidents that happened when KC was behind the wheel.

Yep! If KC had regular seizures, a seizure disorder, she would likely have seized when she was drinking, because alcohol tens to lower the seizure threshold. No evidence of that.

KC had no anticonvulsant prescriptions. And grand mal seizures don't make people murder, they make people fall on the floor, then get sleepy.

One certainly couldn't have a grand mal siezure that lasted long enough to kill, dispose of the body, dump the car, and all the other machinations KC performed for 31 days. A grand mal seizure usually only last a minute, or so.

Won't work as a defense.

Nothing physical of psychological would work as a defense, because KC has no medical history to back it up. ONE seizure does not make a seizure disorder.

 

[Brini]

That was on the list of meds from the December search warrant.
I'm pretty sure the Gentimicin was in ointment form.

For an eye infection.

 

[SuziQ]

New doc dump coming? 700 pages released today to the defense per Muzikman's post in the Current News thread.

 

[spqr]

Oh man Abbra I'm sorry to hear about all you went through regarding your loved ones. You've had no choice but to be one tough lady. Bless you. :blowkiss:

Regarding KC and seizures, I really don't know. I just couldn't help but to notice that there was that drug in the house along with a known documented seizure in KC's recent past, and no other scripts found in the house under anybody elses name.

Snipped and bolded by me:

Certain anti-seizure meds can act as "nerve blockers" or "pain blocker" depending on the dosage given. example (not true doses just an example) 2mg might be for anti-seizure but 10mg might be for nerve/pain block. Maybe one of our "resident" medical experts can relay it better.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The snake and Caylee are not related in any way. The snake was road kill on or about August 11, 2008. It was found by Kronk's co-workers along the side of the road on Suburban Drive on August 11th when Kronk first saw Caylee's remains, the snake was subsequently taken home and frozen thus halting all decomposition.

:waitasec: Better check the docs. The snake is separate from Caylee, yes. But it says in the docs that the meter guys killed the snake.

Just out have'n a little look-see to find bones, happened upon a snake, killed it and brought it over to the workplace to show all the co-workers and decided to keep it in the freezer. All in a days work - oh, was I supposed to be working?

Never in my life have I "met" so many strange people. :beamup:

 

[Marina2]

:waitasec: Better check the docs. The snake is separate from Caylee, yes. But it says in the docs that the meter guys killed the snake.

Just out have'n a little look-see to find bones, happened upon a snake, killed it and brought it over to the workplace to show all the co-workers and decided to keep it in the freezer. All in a days work - oh, was I supposed to be working?

Never in my life have I "met" so many strange people. :beamup:

I thought they found it already dead. :waitasec:

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The prescriptions found that were on the list were all filled in the name of Cindy Anthony. Even if KC had a " seizure" of sorts she would have had her own prescription for the seizures. No respected doctor in his right mind would write a prescription for one person to give to another person. If it was found out he would lose his license. KC is also an adult and responsible for her own health.
I think the question here about the meds is " Was KC taking Seizure Meds prescribed to her and what were the meds?" Also in NY you have to be seizure free for I think its 5 yrs before they will let you get a drivers license.

If Cindy and George knowingly let KC who had/has seizures drive their vehicles especially with Caylee in the car , they could be held responsible for any accidents that happened when KC was behind the wheel.

You have just stated reasons why someone may want to conceal the fact that they suffer seizures. As for the A's knowing, have you been listening to them? - they lie, lie and lie some more. They don't give two hoots what they say as long as they think what they are saying will serve to better their cause. They are not interested in the truth and, by the way, think that lying is not a crime. CA said that herself.

The Doctor would NOT know he was prescribing it to CA for the use by her daughter (cuz CA knows everything about the drug like, just to use an example, Nurse Brini does and, thanks to her, now me) so CA would manipulate the Doc saying she is suffering from panic attacks and, voila, she leaves the Doc with a script for clonazepam. Mission accomplished - just in case.

I'm really getting the hang of this manipulation stuff!