2010.07.09 - Evidence List for Inspection

[Omachka]

I understand what Richard said. The autopsy photos ARE listed on property forms. They will not be released under the Sunshine laws. JB has every right to physically, meaning visually here, inspect Caylees remains photos in person. They belong to the state are kept in the sherriffs office under the chain of custody and I suspect under lock and key. JB wants to keep the media from seeing the items Richard spoke about. The vehicle, the items found with Caylee. Duh JB, we have seen what has been released so far and so has his office. JB is continuing to play a new game with the courts. He fully knows the media and public will go over that evidence again and again and again and still the results will be the same. When JB learns ya can't change history is anyones guess.

I don't care about this. It basically is a smoke screen for JB. What is important is the conclusion the defense experts arrive at after reviewing the collected and processed evidence. Nothing more, nothing less. They have to work with the forensic evidence the state has.

Thanks for replying to me. You are probably right about the location of all that but it's just the list JB was supposed to be compiling that he was supposed to file before that deadline. AZ is right that it's just the physical evidence that they need to see in person. The evidence itself isn't the point (I think we've already seen what the Sunshine law allows). All these end runs around the rules are making his client look even more guilty. If she's innocent there is no need for smoke screens IMHO. If you can't dazzle them with the law... dazzle them with fancy footwork is what one of the lawyers I worked with used to say about an attorney like JB.

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm still waiting to learn what games the SA is playing.

 

[TinPan]

Wasn't the Block Bluster video reported to have been possibly right after the disappearance of Caylee, on 15th 16? If I'm reading time line correctly it shows 13th.

 

[RR0004]

I don't know if the autopsy photos are included in the evidence at the Sheriff's Office. I thought those were kept in their own place. It was all of the evidence that he said he wanted to see.

Here is a video of what rhornsby said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrW0aTQXxMU

Baez sent a link? For real?

 

[RR0004]

Wasn't the Block Bluster video reported to have been possibly right after the disappearance of Caylee, on 15th 16? If I'm reading time line correctly it shows 13th.

Probably just a typo...it should read 16.

 

[RR0004]

Thanks for replying to me. You are probably right about the location of all that but it's just the list JB was supposed to be compiling that he was supposed to file before that deadline. AZ is right that it's just the physical evidence that they need to see in person. The evidence itself isn't the point (I think we've already seen what the Sunshine law allows). All these end runs around the rules are making his client look even more guilty. If she's innocent there is no need for smoke screens IMHO. If you can't dazzle them with the law... dazzle them with fancy footwork is what one of the lawyers I worked with used to say about an attorney like JB.

It's not even so fancy, right? Pretty transparent, IMO.

 

[Snaz]

Thanks for replying to me. You are probably right about the location of all that but it's just the list JB was supposed to be compiling that he was supposed to file before that deadline. AZ is right that it's just the physical evidence that they need to see in person. The evidence itself isn't the point (I think we've already seen what the Sunshine law allows). All these end runs around the rules are making his client look even more guilty. If she's innocent there is no need for smoke screens IMHO. If you can't dazzle them with the law... dazzle them with fancy footwork is what one of the lawyers I worked with used to say about an attorney like JB.

BBM

I always heard, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh**." LOL :crazy:

 

[RR0004]

BBM

I always heard, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh**." LOL :crazy:

Now I sure can see that!

 

[Jomo]

I was wondering why the defense needs access to scientific equipment if JB reassured the judge that they are only going to view the evidence and not TEST the evidence.

I'm sure they did not want the SA and officers to be there because they wanted to manipulate the evidence a little more than they are actually permitted.

I'm happy that the process is going to be video taped. That will ensure the chain of custody and integrety of the evidence they wish to view. I could just see they trying to ruin some of the evidence.

Question:
After viewing the evidence, can the defense request certain items for further testing? IIRC the SA offered to sent any items to a lab of their choice for further testing and JB did not answer or had said no thanks. Why would the defense experts even agree to view the evidence in such conditions if it were possible to have the items sent directly to them?

 

[joypath]

I was wondering why the defense needs access to scientific equipment if JB reassured the judge that they are only going to view the evidence and not TEST the evidence.

I'm sure they did not want the SA and officers to be there because they wanted to manipulate the evidence a little more than they are actually permitted.

I'm happy that the process is going to be video taped. That will ensure the chain of custody and integrety of the evidence they wish to view. I could just see they trying to ruin some of the evidence.

Question:
After viewing the evidence, can the defense request certain items for further testing? IIRC the SA offered to sent any items to a lab of their choice for further testing and JB did not answer or had said no thanks. Why would the defense experts even agree to view the evidence in such conditions if it were possible to have the items sent directly to them?

"]I was wondering why the defense needs access to scientific equipment if JB reassured the judge that they are only going to view the evidence and not TEST the evidence." With the mindset:loser: of JB, who knows but rest assured, the entire crime laboratory cadre of sensitive and delicate instrumentation will not be disassembled and transported so JB can play "two cent techie" and push buttons at random! He had better plan on having his EXPERT consultants use their background knowledge and evaluate those highly fought for lab notes and bench notes, those QC, standards, controls, dilution protocols, logs and the raw data runs from the instrument, plotting the X & Y axis, reading the mixed peak graphs from the GC/MS et al., THAT's where those college/university degrees become a valuable commodity, interpretating the mish-mosh of raw data! :furious:. But that's just my IRATE humble opinion from a defender & doer, the "ahem" button pushing lab people & vampire blood suckers that just analyze the "stuff".:angel:

Now the question: The absurd defense team SHOULD HAVE requested "split sampling" AGES ago, like the minute they got involved with the case and discovery material was collected!!!!!!! In most, many, dare I say ALL, cases, when ever the investigative material is evaluated, there is a SUPREME attempt to use the smallest amount of sample possible in testing and save aliquots for future re-testing, advance testing or passing off to the defense team for their independent testing (VERY VERY common!). :twocents:REMEMBER it is NOT the purpose of the scientific community to provide specific results to LE that lead to ANY PARTICULAR individual, rather to provide reproducible, precise, accurate, confirmable DEFENDABLE data. :twocents: Yes, the courtroom process is an adversarial process but generally the interaction between consultants outside the courtroom testimony minus the egos involved is collegial and cool, sometimes even beneficial to the point of closing cases pre-trial, again speaking ONLY from my experience.
In my very demure:blushing: and female opinion (HA!), the need to play the evaluation of the evidence in this particular manner is due to the characters involved in the drama; history and previous reputations, behaviors doth proceed and as aptly paraphrased, "an ounce of prevention......... is a Perry good idea!"

 

[ThinkTank]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...asey-anthony-experts-20100712,0,4716386.story

IMO ... my thoughts are ..... There is no guarantee that these experts will find anything, or come to any conclusion, that is "helpful" to the accused baby murderer.
I have to believe that when all of their inspection and later testing is done, the experts with any integrity will not get on the witness stand and make statements that are not true, or which are meant to confuse the jury (for reasonable doubt).
Just because any person is on the Defense Witness List, it does not guarantee that they will be called to testify at trial, in favor of the Defendant.

For example - Dr. Werner Spitz who actually did an autopsy of Caylee's remains - he is not included in the Defense team now. Same with Dr. Kathy Reichs. She even went on national tv and talked about her work on this case, yet she is not on the Defense team now.

My question is .... does a Defense expert have to be on the Defense witness list, in order to be allowed to inspect the evidence? It does not seem right to me, that the Defense is allowed to bring in people/experts who the State know nothing about. There are new names coming to inspect the evidence, who are NOT on the Defense witness list.

Such as:
Nicholas Petraco, an associate professor of chemistry and forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City. [this is where Dr. Kobilinsky is from]

Dutch forensic scientists Richard and Selma Eikelenboom, pioneers in the field of "Touch DNA. [the DNA is also Dr. Kobilinsky's area of expertise]

 

[Jomo]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...asey-anthony-experts-20100712,0,4716386.story

IMO ... my thoughts are ..... There is no guarantee that these experts will find anything, or come to any conclusion, that is "helpful" to the accused baby murderer.
I have to believe that when all of their inspection and later testing is done, the experts with any integrity will not get on the witness stand and make statements that are not true, or which are meant to confuse the jury (for reasonable doubt).
Just because any person is on the Defense Witness List, it does not guarantee that they will be called to testify at trial, in favor of the Defendant.

For example - Dr. Werner Spitz who actually did an autopsy of Caylee's remains - he is not included in the Defense team now. Same with Dr. Kathy Reichs. She even went on national tv and talked about her work on this case, yet she is not on the Defense team now.

My question is .... does a Defense expert have to be on the Defense witness list, in order to be allowed to inspect the evidence? It does not seem right to me, that the Defense is allowed to bring in people/experts who the State know nothing about. There are new names coming to inspect the evidence, who are NOT on the Defense witness list.

Such as:
Nicholas Petraco, an associate professor of chemistry and forensic science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City. [this is where Dr. Kobilinsky is from]

Dutch forensic scientists Richard and Selma Eikelenboom, pioneers in the field of "Touch DNA. [the DNA is also Dr. Kobilinsky's area of expertise]

Great point!

I guess the defense always has until August 30th to add them to the list. They might be exploring which experts will agree with them or support their theories before they add them.

 

[Gnatcatcher]

It just baffles me that these very busy and important people have to go through this because little missy won't open up her mouth and tell the truth. It's just unbelievable. How she can sit there in total silence while all these hundreds of people work their tails off is just so far beyond me.

 

[ThinkTank]

And .... who is paying for all of these experts to be flown in from all over?
I don't think the JAC is going to approve expenses on all of this.
Are all of these experts coming in at their own expense? Lodging, eating, air flight tickets, rental cars????

 

[ThinkTank]

This website from the Illinois (as in A Lyon in Illinois) Innocence Project, with info about the "DUTCH" (they live and work in the Netherlands) experts who are coming in to Orlando to inspect the evidence
.
http://www.uis.edu/innocenceproject/events/touchdna/reikelenboom.html

Who is paying for these experts to come to Orlando, from the Netherlands????
Would A Lyon's college department have anything to do with this? More "donations"?

 

[sleutherontheside]

This website from the Illinois (as in A Lyon in Illinois) Innocence Project, with info about the "DUTCH" (they live and work in the Netherlands) experts who are coming in to Orlando to inspect the evidence
.
http://www.uis.edu/innocenceproject/events/touchdna/reikelenboom.html

Who is paying for these experts to come to Orlando, from the Netherlands????
Would A Lyon's college department have anything to do with this? More "donations"?

And to add to your post.......here is an interesting article about the experts.
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1536112.html


A few snips...

The couple, who started Independent Forensic Services, a forensic lab in the Netherlands, in 2003, typically handle only complex and often high-profile murder cases these days, Richard Eikelenboom said during a phone interview Friday

"State labs are literally inundated with hundreds and hundreds of pieces of evidence; they just don't have the time expertise or time that the Eikelenbooms have," Wheeler-Holloway said

By attempting to reconstruct how the crime would have occurred, the Eikelenbooms can zero in on specific areas of the clothing where the killer would have had to use enough force to have transferred genetic material.

Richard Eikelenboom said that while getting a profile from contact DNA testing can be extremely difficult, chances are improved the less the evidence is handled by investigators.

 

[MissJames]

And to add to your post.......here is an interesting article about the experts.
http://www.semissourian.com/story/1536112.html


A few snips...

The couple, who started Independent Forensic Services, a forensic lab in the Netherlands, in 2003, typically handle only complex and often high-profile murder cases these days, Richard Eikelenboom said during a phone interview Friday

"State labs are literally inundated with hundreds and hundreds of pieces of evidence; they just don't have the time expertise or time that the Eikelenbooms have," Wheeler-Holloway said

By attempting to reconstruct how the crime would have occurred, the Eikelenbooms can zero in on specific areas of the clothing where the killer would have had to use enough force to have transferred genetic material.

Richard Eikelenboom said that while getting a profile from contact DNA testing can be extremely difficult, chances are improved the less the evidence is handled by investigators.

Wonder how difficult it will be after sitting out in the elements for 6months ,including a hurricane. :waitasec:

 

[sleutherontheside]

http://www.denverpost.com/evidence/ci_6373222

It came after Richard Eikelenboom took the stand to discuss the target points on Hettrick's clothing. He said he would primarily use tape to try to retrieve the killer's cells, a method he preferred to cotton-tip swabbing, the predominant U.S. method.
In the absence of any state law or guidelines to manage the DNA test process, Weatherby stressed that both sides agree on a protocol. But Abrahamson and Reidel went over the judge's head to the state Supreme Court to block the testing. The high court refused to hear it.

In late November, excited about the prospect of finally sending Hettrick's clothing to the Netherlands, Wymore and Liu began focusing on other legal matters, including crafting a protocol for the DNA collection and testing.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Here is a link to their website.........always nice to advertise your willingness to be an "expert witness".

http://www.forensic-services.nl/

A snip...
Time of Death:
Highly underestimated, determining Time of Death is of great importance in almost every murder case. It is a special expertise of IFS. We have the newest computer software on estimation of Time of Death and have been successful in dozens of cases.

 

[RR0004]

This website from the Illinois (as in A Lyon in Illinois) Innocence Project, with info about the "DUTCH" (they live and work in the Netherlands) experts who are coming in to Orlando to inspect the evidence
.
http://www.uis.edu/innocenceproject/events/touchdna/reikelenboom.html

Who is paying for these experts to come to Orlando, from the Netherlands????
Would A Lyon's college department have anything to do with this? More "donations"?

Are these the guys (husband and wife) who are featured on tv in such crime (magazine) shows as "48 hours"? Could CBS be paying?