2011.01.24: Hearing Will Address Request For Investigative Hours

[LambChop]

A good attorney, emphasis on good, will go over everything with their client. It is the client who leads them and let's them know where they should be looking, who they should be looking at as a suspect. It's not a good idea not to because putting this person on the stand could backfire big time if the client has not told them everything. Example using DC as a suspect: He could turn around and say that KC had told him where she had hidden the body. Now who do you think the jury would believe, DC or KC? So I think defense attorneys go where their client leads them.

If they had found nothing on RK, they would have gone after TES volunteers next which would have happened had MN not been so diligent. And they would have kept going until they found someone who could not prove where they were when Caylee disappeared. jmo

 

[faefrost]

BBM: But we don't know what all the searchers said, right? We have the three that consented to be interviewed by the media after the deposition, and it seems their depositions were favorable to the State. However, there were 10 searchers who were deposed that day. I believe 3 more are scheduled for this week. I don't think we can be sure the others will say the same, we will just have to wait and see.

ETA: Sorry Jenny and others who have already said the same thing. I need to read ALL prior posts before I jump in and post!

It depends. It may not be enough for MN or TES to file a motion to finally shut down the defense harrasement of TES volunteers. But those public statements about their depositions, if they do in fact correspond to the testimony given under oath, could quite likely be enough for the JAC to call into question the purposes and nature of the investigative hours being billed. In this case the defense had a very narrow window of terms and conditions set by the judge in which to operate and question these witnesses. Only if certain very specific conditions were met could the defense then justify applying further investigative hours in their pursuit. Based on the public statements of these three witnesses it is rather clear that the defense was playing beyond loose and fast with those conditions and was instead willfully spending JAC moneys for a fishing expedition that had been disallowed by the court. The three alone might give the JAC enough amunition to demand a far greater showing of cause from the defense before any further moneys are spent.

 

[steadychick]

Actually, I think they should be looking at Cindy as the next most likely suspect because there is a more than decent chance that DC was played like a fiddle by CA. Here's why. In some of his emails, he really seemed to be caught up by and believed in the psychics he was dealing with (and there were several). In getting close to him, Cindy knew this about him and used Ginette Lucas as a go between to feed info to DC and lead him to finding the body. IMO he either failed to find her or did find her but was too "freaked" and legitimately frightened to remove the remains.

In other words, perhaps he was set up so that he could give his psychic story and have it be the truth, since DC didn't know Cindy was directing the psychic. When Caylee was found by Kronk and the story of DC and JH in the woods came out, the psychic got to claim that SHE was the one who led DC to the spot and DC got to claim that the psychic told him where to look -- good for her business and nothing pointing back to Cindy as the source of info. My speculation and opinion only.

 

[Psmith]

and Leonard P ..... LP did all the digging for dirt on Kronk with his ex's .... LP and Dominic and Cindy all working together to "Kronk" Mr. Roy ....
remember how LP's nephew told us here on WS, that his Uncle Leonard was in almost daily contact with JB, and that his Uncle was also cooking up "something" with Dominic ....

No way! Lenny working hand in glove with Defense and the Anthonys? Wow, I totally missed the item or forgot about LP's working on "something" with DCasey. If you don't mind and have the time, would you mind giving me a link? I'd love to read more about that.

 

[sumbunny]

Here we have a man, who inserted himself into this case by offering his services... if I remember correctly. I do not think anyone went to him. He is on VIDEO within feet from where Caylee's skull would later be found. He does NOT call police when he finds a muddied and ripped pink baby blanket. He does not go to this location once, not twice, but three times. His partner in crime, Jim Hoover, made a secret trip down to the TES command center and gives information about the Suburban location.

According to DC's interview with LE, Casey Anthony gave him no information about this location. The Anthony's gave him no information about this location. His lies about the way he found himself out there in that location is suspect at best. First he was searching because of the Kiomarie tip... a tip that would and should have taken him further down the road and across the street. He says while he was going to this location (not the actual location of the tip) he gets a call from a psychic and it freaks him out. On and on and on...

DC better hope he told LE and the SA the truth during that investigative interview because I am sure that the defense and Casey would have no problem taking care of this traitor by making him the next target.

I do think you are right though, I think they are scared to go after DC. He knows too much. But he would have been perfect if he didn't know so much.

Has the "bullstopper guy" ever took apart Dominic C's interview with LE?
I'd think that would be very interesting to see

 

[Gma Kat]

Oh, I don't think they can say no. What an appeal issue that could raise. "I told my attorneys about RK and they ignored me and he was the one I gave the baby to." Big problem for the attorneys and the judge would not be happy. So whatever is her story of the day, they have to research it. It's their job.

At some point it has to stop with her stories. It's been almost 3 years and $275,000 plus $50,000 from the JAC and still no one other than KC is a suspect. If defense can not find anyone after all this time they need to be working on a deal for her. They are running out of time and the more people KC tries to frame the less chance of the state saying okay let's make a deal. jmo

I agree Lambchop, that the defense does have to work with what their client gives them. :doh: An ETHICAL attorney would put an end to their client's B.S. - or withdraw from the case. :beamup: That would have been done within the first weeks of this case if Baez was ethical (IMO) but this case seems to always be about publicity for the defense and their experts, and to some extent for the family. :dj: So we are left with a pathological liar for a defendant :liar: , a defense attorney who enables the perpetuation of the lies :nono:, and possibly has uttered a few himself :shocked2: during this case.....I so agree that it is not fair to the taxpayers of the State of Florida to be spending $$$ that could go to better causes..arty:..but in the big picture, funds spent by the JAC to provide ICA with the defense SHE HAS CHOSEN will probably be more cost effective than an appeal.........Just thinkin' again.....kay:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

He can't say anything she told him because of attorney/client priviledge. In defending her he needs to have some information, such as who did you give the baby to, are you being threatened that you feel you can't disclose that information. But JB is on record by stating to the media, "that when it comes time for trial KC's story will come out and we will all say, 'oh, now I understand'". That means that KC has told her attorneys something, not the truth but stories that fit what was going on in the news. We've all read her letters and we all know there is no nanny. So she has been talking, or more appropriately "spinning".

I think it is all from KC. Look at the stories her mother spins and they are so alike. KC is mean, she's viscious and she's not done by a long shot. She still has approximately 15 weeks to accuse someone new. She will do it and not bat an eye. jmo

Yeah I could see it coming from Casey as well. I picture a "Actually I was just going to tell you - a guy named kronk said such and such and took Caylee" or maybe Zanny was code for Kronk as Cindy might say. Any person will do I guess. She'll have to start accusing family members next, I think she's out of options.

 

[RR0004]

Oh, I don't think she is throwing out garbage. I believe she is a very effective liar. Look at her friends, Amy, RM, Jesse. She had them believing she was working and attending classes, she'd be getting the house. She is a manipulator and uses her smile, her claims of being innocent to manipulate people. The attorney's job is to create reasonable doubt and they have to use what information they can get that is supported by their client and their investigation. Do I think defense went too far with RK. Yes, I do. Will they continue to buy her stories....I hope not. KC can't say she does not know what happened as she was the only one who had the child. She and she alone knows what happened. Bottom line. Crying wolf only works for so long. jmo

...and let's remember that it was CM who said she may very well be guilty...but somebody else could have been involved (paraphrased by me). I remember thinking, what a ridiculous thing for a defense attorney to say! Personally, I think they're looking for anyone...accomplice or not.

 

[Gma Kat]

Oh my gosh Think Tank. I forgot about LP and his dealings with the defense and his daisy chain and his relentless attacks on Kronk. I don't know the timeframe on when the defense publicly went after Kronk and when LP did - maybe it dovetailed.

But you're right. They're all in on it. LP makes me puke. Always has, always will. If anyone thinks he came to Orlando and bailed Casey out because he believed her I've got a bridge... I spit in his general direction.

RE BBM:

:floorlaugh: and ITA.....

used to love me some LP, then something changed and I just see him as one of the defense now for some reason......:maddening:

 

[faefrost]

Yeah I could see it coming from Casey as well. I picture a "Actually I was just going to tell you - a guy named kronk said such and such and took Caylee" or maybe Zanny was code for Kronk as Cindy might say. Any person will do I guess. She'll have to start accusing family members next, I think she's out of options.

I don't think they could even begin to introduce a "KC said she gave the child to Kronk" or anyone else for that matter, without providing either direct testimony from KC herself on the stand, or at the very least a clear and believable witness who can recount something specific regarding RK or similar that KC said and did. They can't just throw stuff out there without some chance for examination of cross examination. Well they can but it is no different than putting on an "aliens abducted Caylee" defense.

 

[RR0004]

Yeah I could see it coming from Casey as well. I picture a "Actually I was just going to tell you - a guy named kronk said such and such and took Caylee" or maybe Zanny was code for Kronk as Cindy might say. Any person will do I guess. She'll have to start accusing family members next, I think she's out of options.

I can see Casey making up a ton of stories, actually. She's created this fantasy world, one in which she seems quite comfortable to live in. If you examine her in court behavior (and I'm not using that to judge guilt...or innocence), she clearly is okay with what she views as her role now...being a part of the defense team and helping in putting on her own defense. She's entitled to do that, but what could she possibly be offering in the way of help? I mean only she knows what happened...let her say who took Caylee and moved the body to the woods off Suburban Drive. JMHO

 

[RR0004]

No way! Lenny working hand in glove with Defense and the Anthonys? Wow, I totally missed the item or forgot about LP's working on "something" with DCasey. If you don't mind and have the time, would you mind giving me a link? I'd love to read more about that.

I believe it was his nephew who said he (LP) was in contact with Baez pretty much on a daily basis. If you search for Rick P.'s convos here you will see it.

 

[denjet]

Not sure this is the right thread to put this on but it does have to do with asking for more funds.
Did Baez or Mason respond to the JAC about their motion that was filed on December 28, 2010. If they did not then I can hear CJPerry stating this at the hearing. jmo
So many times in everyone of the defense motions state:
10/25/2010
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/58593417/10252010-Motion-for-Additional-Hours-of-Investigation
5) Thus the Defense is respectfully requesting an additional 300 hours for services render in-state in order to continue investigating the evidence alleged in the State’s discovery which continues to be ongoing.
12/13/2010
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6668980...-Motion-for-Additional-Hours-of-Investigation
4) Thus the Defense is respectfully requesting an additional 300 hours for services render in-state in order to continue investigating the evidence alleged in the State’s discovery which continues to be ongoing.
01/20/2011
http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26557886/detail.html
15) Therefore in the interest of judicial economy, and trial begins less than 4 months away, the Defense is respectfully requesting an additional 300 hours for in-state investigative services to include the 106.2 hours and continued investigation of the State’s discovery, which as illustrated above, continues to be on-going until further notice by this court.
Just like the last hearing CJPerry told the defense that they latest discovery was of rebuttal witnesses for the deposition of one of the defense witness. IMO it should fall flat. The defense may have cut their State tax payers funds for their fishing. And why did they not get the hint about new civil lawyers looking for new cases to get JAC funds returned to them by criminal defense attorneys. :banghead:

Thanks for listing these out, P1569 !
I'm beginning to think there's a reason Baez always asks for an additional 300 hours and not some other amount ... perhaps Baez is trying to slip these requests past JAC and Judge Perry and confuse which one is which ...

I'm also wondering what became of JAC's questioning whether hours for admin tasks are being billed as investigator hours ... we haven't heard anything about it that I know of ... I hope it's clarified soon and Jose gets a big fat NO to more money for fishing expeditions ...

Baez also seems to be using this money to drag more witnesses into the case that require more interviews/depositions and in general waste time and delay the cases progress ... He seems to have found a way around deadlines for witnesses by creating new ones ... uggghhh :banghead:

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Based on past history, I believe the defense will run out of time before they run out of money. :candle:

 

[RR0004]

Excellent analysis!

The State had until October 31, 2010 to add witnesses to their List.
The State only added (13) new witnesses, past that deadline, with good cause.

- January 14, 2011 - with "good cause" - the State added (1) new witness - U.S. Secret Service Joseph Stephens, because the State had only just received the Report from the FBI on Jan 13, 2011.

- December 16, 2010 - with "good cause" - the State added (11) new witnesses, who were TES searchers, to rebut the deposition testimony of Laura B.

- Sept 30, 2010 - still within the Oct 31st deadline - the State added the President of Blue Star, to testify about issues (about chloroform) that were raised in the depositions of the Medical Examiners and Dr. Vass from Oak Ridge Lab.

- August 30, 2010 - still within the Oct 31st deadline (11) of the new witnesses, who are from Orange County Corrections (jail), were added to give testimony related to the Internal Affairs investigation of former jail guard Sylvia H., who allowed access between Inmate Anthony and Inmate Robyn.

The Defense has had plenty of time, since May 7, 2010, to "investigate" and depose the (40)-plus witnesses the State added to their Witness List. The Defense was given until December 31, 2010 to complete all depositions of the "late filed - after May 24, 2010" witnesses on the State Witness List.

The Defense has been aware of the new State witnesses since the day the State filed their "Supplemental Witness Lists" (after May 7, 2010). The Defense does not need more investigative hours to "investigate" these witnesses, now. It should have been done, and the witnesses who the Defense wanted to depose, should have already been deposed by December 31, 2010.

- May 24, 2010 - Supplemental List - (45) new witnesses
- August 10, 2010 Supplemental List - (6) new witnesses (OCSO and K9 and trunk
liner)
- August 30, 2010 Supplemental List - (13) new witnesses (Int Affairs inv and
MySpace and AT&T and ShurTape)
- August 31, 2010 Supplemental List - (14) new witnesses (Custodians of records)
- December 16, 2010 Supplemental List - (11) new witnesses (rebut Laura B)
- January 14, 2011 Supplemental List - (1) new witness (US Secret Service)

I thought the additional hours pertained to penalty phase witnesses? Now I'm thinking, "Where the heck did I get that?"

 

[ThinkTank]

I thought the additional hours pertained to penalty phase witnesses? Now I'm thinking, "Where the heck did I get that?"

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26557921/detail.html
MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF INVESTIGATIVE HOURS FOR THE PENALTY PHASE
This one asks for the investigative hours for the penalty phase witnesses.
It has all the invoices attached from Intelli Inv - Gil Colon.

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26557886/detail.html
THIRD MOTION FOR ADDITIONAL HOURS OF INVESTIGATION
This is the one where the Defense whines about the (40)-plus addl witnesses, from the (5)-plus Supplemental State Witness Lists .... and the (18) Notice of Privision of Supplemental Discovery including more than 9,600 pages and 165 autio files of discovery.

 

[RR0004]

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26557921/detail.html
MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF INVESTIGATIVE HOURS FOR THE PENALTY PHASE
This one asks for the investigative hours for the penalty phase witnesses.
It has all the invoices attached from Intelli Inv - Gil Colon.

http://www.wesh.com/pdf/26557886/detail.html
THIRD MOTION FOR ADDITIONAL HOURS OF INVESTIGATION
This is the one where the Defense whines about the (40)-plus addl witnesses, from the (5)-plus Supplemental State Witness Lists .... and the (18) Notice of Privision of Supplemental Discovery including more than 9,600 pages and 165 autio files of discovery.

You're the best TT!!

 

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by Psmith
No way! Lenny working hand in glove with Defense and the Anthonys? Wow, I totally missed the item or forgot about LP's working on "something" with DCasey. If you don't mind and have the time, would you mind giving me a link? I'd love to read more about that.

I believe it was his nephew who said he (LP) was in contact with Baez pretty much on a daily basis. If you search for Rick P.'s convos here you will see it.

It was Tony P. - Leonard's nephew - who posted quite a bit here on WS

Tony Padilla part 2 - Page 14
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88160&page=14
09-12-2009, comment # 331
Tony Padilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR0004 Have you heard about DC's recent comments in court? Did you or the members of your team ever meet with him?
Is DC Dominic Casey?
-------------------------------------------------------------------
09-12-2009, comment # 335
Tony Padilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR0004 Yes indeed.
I know that both Leonard and Rob have talked to him [Dominic] and I believe at great lengths. LP has something going on with him now but I am not at all sure what it is.
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88160&page=21
Tony Padilla part 2 - Page 21
09-12-2009 comment # 511
Tony Padilla
Quote:
Originally Posted by RR0004 ...and when people get all caught up here, imagine what they'll make of DC and LP working on something together. This is all making my head spin.
Oh yea. Just a heads up that it will be something just to get himself back into the spotlight. He has been throwing it around to media people but they aren't biting. LP has lost ALL CREDIBILITY with the media except one show. Guess which one?
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88554&page=14
Audio of Tracy M interview Sept 18, 2008
09-04-2009 comment # 326
Tony Padilla
Originally Posted by babiesstolemydingo Why is LP in daily contact with Baez?
I have no idea but I wonder about that as well. It cant be good. I dont understand how you can talk civil to a person that bad mouths you every chance he gets.
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[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4078019#post4078019"]Tony Padilla Q&A - Page 26 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Tony Padilla Q&A - Page 26
08-24-2009 comment # 646
Tony Padilla
Whats really ironic is that LP and JB have been talking often.

 

[ThinkTank]

Originally Posted by Macushla View
BBM: But we don't know what all the searchers said, right? We have the three that consented to be interviewed by the media after the deposition, and it seems their depositions were favorable to the State. However, there were 10 searchers who were deposed that day. I believe 3 more are scheduled for this week. I don't think we can be sure the others will say the same, we will just have to wait and see.

ETA: Sorry Jenny and others who have already said the same thing. I need to read ALL prior posts before I jump in and post!

LOL I've been repeating others and myself ad nauseam on this thread so join the club!

Oh btw, I read on some blog or other that another searcher who was depo'd the other day was only able to tell the prosecutors she ONLY DROVE BY Suburban and didn't even stop. Hoo boy.

So that's four.

There were (13) TES searchers deposed by the State on Thursday, Jan 20th, because the Defense gave the State these people's names. However, the Defense has still not officially added these (13) new people to the Defense Witness List.

The (3) TES searchers of the (13), talked to WESH news.
The 4th TES searcher posted here on WS - that she only "drove by Suburban and never got out of the car".

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125216&page=3
Jan 21, 2011
fitterwoman
"I am one of them "
"steadychick - Yes I was called in yesterday to give a deposition. The other people I talked to all said the area was not searchable when they were there. I, however, did not search that particular area, I searched two entirely different areas so I do not know what they expected to learn from me. "

Originally Posted by fitterwoman "I searched for Caley but not in the area where they found her remains. I don't even know why the detective signaled me out. The only tie I have to the area is that I drove by in the car. I didn't even get out of the car. I think the defense needs a better detective. (But I hope they don't get one, this ones doing just fine for the prosecution.)"

 

[ThinkTank]

No way! Lenny working hand in glove with Defense and the Anthonys? Wow, I totally missed the item or forgot about LP's working on "something" with DCasey. If you don't mind and have the time, would you mind giving me a link? I'd love to read more about that.

Dominic and Cindy Kronking Roy - emails released in DISCOVERY:
Leonard and his sidekick Tracy M. shared info with Cindy and Dominic and JB, about Kronk.
http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0929/21146565.pdf

page 48 - Email from Dominic to Cindy and copied to Brad Conway

Dominic wrote to Cindy: "Cindy, This is Kronk's girlfriend's 'brother' "Mike" and his wife's first attempt at making a statement. I asked them to elaborate 'more' on the burning of the house down and Kronk's drug usage . . .

page 85 - Email from Cindy to Dominic
Cindy wrote to Dominic: " did you read the on about his Son stating that his dad told him before Dec 11th that he was going to be on TV, and also Kronk’s sister can fill in the gaps in the case. I also wonder who Linda is that thinks that Richard Grund may have lived in MD. If Richard and Roy know each other that would be huge.

From dominic – dominiccasey@msn.com
3/2/09
To cindy@dgator.com

Dominic wrote: "Yes I read that and about RG, it would be huge ...."

-------------------------------------------------------------
RE: Roy Kronk
From Dominic – dominiccasey@msn.com
3/2/09
To cindy@dgator.com

"Yes I would ...."
---------------------------------------------------------
From cindy@dgator.com
March 1, 2009
To dom
RE: roy Kronk

Cindy wrote: "tracy [Tracy M. - Leonard's sidekick] told me she was going to get it and send it to me. I just got it within the hour. I sent every thing to Jose and to you. Do you think I should send it to Brad?"
--------------------------------------------------------

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0929/21146565.pdf
Starts at page 48.

On page 81 the emails are between Dominic C, Cindy, Leonard P, tracydawn (Tracy M), Crystal (Roy K's ex) about trying to get Roy K's sister (Susan C.) to talk with LP.
------------------------------------------------------------------
pg 81

RE: Roy’s Sister, Susan Cecil ....
From Dominic
To Cindy (cindy@dgator.com)

"And LP [Leonard P] has a Yahoo account ..."
-----------------------------------------------
From Cindy
To dom
FW: Roy’s Sister, Susan Cecil
-----------------------------------------------
1 Mar 2009
From tracydawn2@yahoo.com [Leonard's sidekick]
Subject: Fwd: Roy’s Sister, Susan Cecil
To cindy@dgator.com

forwarded message
From Leonard Padilla – leonardpadillabountyhunter@yahoo.com
February 26, 2009
To tracy – tracydawn2@yahoo.com
Fw: Roy’s Sister, Susan Cecil
------------------------------------------
From Sparks, Crystal YNCS – Crystal.A.Sparks@uscg.mil
Subj Roy’s Sister, Susan Cecil
To leonardpadillabountyhunter@yahoo.com
February 9, 2009
--------------------------------------------
Re: FW: ROY KRUNK another Link MARYLAND
From josebgood@yahoo.com
Mon 3/2/09
To cindy@dgator.com

JB wrote to Cindy: "Good work Rosebud!"
-----------------------------------------------
pg 84
From Kenneth Klepsig – rugger58msn.com
Subj ROY DRUNK another Link MARYLAND
To leonardpadillabountyhunter@yahoo.com
February 25, 2009
------------------------------------------------
From dominiccasey@msn.com
To cindy@dgator.com
RE: Roy Kronk
March 1, 2009

Dominic wrote to Cindy: "LP [Leonard] is a slimy character alright ... why is this stuff “just arriving” to you? ... be careful with the girl [Tracy - Leonard's sidekick].."
----------------------------------
From cindy@dgator.com
March 1, 2009
To dom
FW: Roy Kronk
-------------------------------------

March 1, 2009
From tracydawn2@yahoo.com
Subj Fwd: Roy Kronk
To cindy@dgator.com
-------------------------------------
Sent from my iPhone
forwarded message:

From leonardpadillabountyhunter@yahoo.com
February 26, 2009
To tracydawn2@yahoo.com
Fw: RE: Roy Kronk
----------------------------------------------

From Sparks, Crystal YNCS – Crystal.A.Sparks@uscg.mil (Roy Krunk ex-wife)
Subj RE: Roy Kronk
To leonardpadillabountyhunter@yahoo.com
February 23, 2009
-----------------------------------------