2011.02.21 Autopsy; COD & TOD Discussion *Warning: Graphic*

[panthera]

NG's expert on tonights show apparently believes the ME report is sorely lacking in detail and remains should be sent to Smithsonian for a "Bones" type review.

Pointed out the 11 cut marks on femur as one example.

He may be right. I had just assumed the 11 cut marks were hestitation marks that ocurred during dismemberment but hey, I'm no expert.

As to the two tools, unfortunately, I wonder if the first one was not sufficient (thus all the cut marks on femur, as one might make first attempt on the leg not previously amputated) and therefore a second was required to finish the job :sick:

I also was impressed with what Dr. Kessler discussed on Nancy's show tonight. He made some good points, in my opinion.

I am also curious if it can be determined just what tool(s) were used for dismemberment.

 

[ynotdivein]

I do not even know how to type this... but in regards to the femur and the 11 cuts... A ways back, we were speculating about the dismemberment aspect and some WSers with experience hunting (or friends with same) indicated that to dismember at the joints with the right tool is not a terribly difficult job...

The reports today indicate NO (or minimal?) attempt to dismember at the joints. The L femur cuts are horrifying as IMO they may signify an attempt to perhaps cut both legs off "short" and thereby circumvent identification if the remains were found. The cuts around and damage to the C-5 vertebrae and the clavicle are (again IMO) intended to remove the head and slow or prevent identification of the remains. I am beyond disturbed that Zahra's skull has not been found, because given how the remains that were found had been treated, I wonder if we will ever find the skull whole and intact.

 

[tlcya]

To me, the hack/cut marks on the femur could indicate a person who has no clue how to dress out an animal, in other words, someone without butchering/hunting experience.

I can see someone thinking their dark hearted self would dismember a child but upon trying, figuring out it is not as easy as one had imagined while playing chainsaw games in fantasyland.

Anyone who has ever butchered a whole chicken into peices would know that you need to do so at the joints.

Wonder if EB was known to be a good cook or lived off fast food?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I do not even know how to type this... but in regards to the femur and the 11 cuts... A ways back, we were speculating about the dismemberment aspect and some WSers with experience hunting (or friends with same) indicated that to dismember at the joints with the right tool is not a terribly difficult job...

The reports today indicate NO attempt to dismember at the joints. The L femur cuts are horrifying as IMO they may signify an attempt to perhaps cut both legs off "short" and thereby circumvent identification if the remains were found. The cuts around and damage to the C-5 vertebrae and the clavicle are (again IMO) intended to remove the head and slow or prevent identification of the remains. I am beyond disturbed that Zahra's skull has not been found, because given how the remains that were found had been treated, I wonder if we will ever find the skull whole and intact.

I think you're exactly right. The skull is missing, so this shows an effort to hide identity, IMO. I think the femur cutting was to hide identity, as I think they dismembered at the joints everywhere else, as that is quite easy.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

I think you're exactly right. The skull is missing, so this shows an effort to hide identity, IMO. I think the femur cutting was to hide identity, as I think they dismembered at the joints everywhere else, as that is quite easy.

I was shocked and saddened to see how much of our Precious Zahra was not found. I pretty much knew they hadn't found her head and that bothers me really bad. But to see that her whole other leg and foot and both arms and hands were not found is devastating.

Why are they not getting more from this "unusual" person? She led them to the few parts they did find. She is (was) talking - so what has she said about Zahra's head or other leg or both arms?

I saw the press conference at 3 and Adkins choked me up. I went outside and watered the flower bed that I did for Zahra and cried the whole time.

While I haven't been posting much on this case - I've followed every thread. I've been caught up with a local case for me - that has gone national - the Barahona twins.

DCF, CPS, whatever you want to call them - we have to do something about this. IT IS NOT WORKING!!!

I will continue to pray that more of Zahra is found and soon. God, please grant a conscious to anyone who knows where she may be so that they may speak to LE and guide Zahra to a final resting place.

 

[strach304]

Not to be too graphic, however, I also believe there wasn't much on the bones either to begin with. In other words, Zahra was far from obese. MOO

Children decompose faster than adults. I live in NC. and I can tell you it was really hot in Sept. and Oct.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Children decompose faster than adults. I live in NC. and I can tell you it was really hot in Sept. and Oct.

Yes, decomp is quite fast for children, esp when there are open wounds, and the temps are high with moisture.

Though obese people can actually decompose faster in some circumstances.

 

[tlcya]

That skull is really bugging me but I keep pushing it to the back of my mind. Not ready to deal with that just yet.

 

[Reannan]

After the remains were found by the creek off of Dudley Shoals Rd., it is as if LE just said....that is all we are going to find! Why??? Why would you stop looking if you KNEW the skull and arms, etc. were still missing??? What do they know that made them stop looking??

 

[WhyaDuck?]

After the remains were found by the creek off of Dudley Shoals Rd., it is as if LE just said....that is all we are going to find! Why??? Why would you stop looking if you KNEW the skull and arms, etc. were still missing??? What do they know that made them stop looking??

Perhaps they knew what was down the drain.

 

[strach304]

After the remains were found by the creek off of Dudley Shoals Rd., it is as if LE just said....that is all we are going to find! Why??? Why would you stop looking if you KNEW the skull and arms, etc. were still missing??? What do they know that made them stop looking??

Wood chipper?

 

[Flakes]

Interesting last sentence Reannan! I was under the impression that they continued searching for weeks after they found the other parts (described in the autopsy). Is that right?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

Wood chipper?

In case people are interested:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118896"]All things wood chipper - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[strach304]

Perhaps they knew what was down the drain.

The head, arms and leg in the drain?

 

[WhyaDuck?]

The head, arms and leg in the drain?

Well, I was trying to be discrete, but I was thinking of brain matter.

 

[ynotdivein]

After the remains were found by the creek off of Dudley Shoals Rd., it is as if LE just said....that is all we are going to find! Why??? Why would you stop looking if you KNEW the skull and arms, etc. were still missing??? What do they know that made them stop looking??

...IMO, that they are not going to find the skull... :sigh:

 

[tlcya]

I am thinking perhaps those parts, the most identifiable or COD related parts which are still missing, have been disposed of somewhere between the two other dump sites. Are there any large bodies of water between the two that would be very difficult to search - even with divers?

Seems like I recall a quarry or some such not far from the christy/ekart site. And there are pretty good sized rivers I believe in the area near hickory. Just wildly speculating out loud, not sure its a theory I am sold on.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

I added a graphic warning to the title, BTW.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Well, I was trying to be discrete, but I was thinking of brain matter.

I'm right there with ya. I'm wondering if brain matter was found on that piece of drywall they removed from the house.

The arms and leg could have easily been put in the chipper (hard to type) but the head; someone (either AB or EB) know what happened to her head.

As much as they said today that there is no credible evidence that anyone else was involved - why isn't AB being charged with neglect or obstruction? Say he had a job out of town for 2 - 3 days, that would have given EB plenty of time to do it. BUT, when he came home- no "where's Zahra?" no looking in her room - FOR TWO WEEKS? I ain't buyin' that for a minute.

He needs to be charged.


PERIOD

 

[LCoastMom]

That skull is really bugging me but I keep pushing it to the back of my mind. Not ready to deal with that just yet.

IMO the skull would provide the cause of death - she doesn't want to do that. Let them think it was illness or accidental...