2011.02.21 Autopsy; COD & TOD Discussion *Warning: Graphic*

[Hickory Born]

I am thinking perhaps those parts, the most identifiable or COD related parts which are still missing, have been disposed of somewhere between the two other dump sites. Are there any large bodies of water between the two that would be very difficult to search - even with divers?

Seems like I recall a quarry or some such not far from the christy/ekart site. And there are pretty good sized rivers I believe in the area near hickory. Just wildly speculating out loud, not sure its a theory I am sold on.

Lake Hickory (the Catawba River) is there and has miles and miles of shoreline. That was my initial guess for disposal four months ago.

 

[SherlockHomey]

Lake Hickory (the Catawba River) is there and has miles and miles of shoreline. That was my initial guess for disposal four months ago.

I fully believe her skull is at the bottom of the river. Never to be found.

 

[Flakes]

From the NG thread:

There aren't a lot of bones present, so without a lot of soft tissue and the skull, I am not sure how anyone can be definite on a COD - at least no one short of an expert foranth team with lots of equipment and grey matter.

I agree that TV experts might be tempted to go for the sensational.

I was under the impression that the leg found was a naked bone, but that the rest of the remains located were probably fleshy.

I assume that in an autopsy they would examine any flesh then removed it to examine the bones, leaving them with skeletal remains.

I do recall they were VERY cagey about what the second part of the body was, I think using the term "remains" rather than "bones" or anything specific, compared with the specific details of the leg being a naked bone. We didn't even know what parts the second find contained until the autopsy release today. So confusing.

 

[Allusonz]

I believe the remains they found was simply what was left of the torso, i agree with whyaduck no skull to look for

Again LE in this case has released information very slowly and carefully and i believe it has been done purposely

 

[writer7]

The bone found earlier and by itself was an arm bone (by Christy Rd).

The rest of the bones shown in the autopsy were found together at the second location (by the creek).

Per the 2 pdfs from the medical examiners. One is about the arm bone.

 

[tlcya]

I fully believe her skull is at the bottom of the river. Never to be found.

During the SARS thread there was a body of water that was very large lakelike that appeared to be very deeeep. I kept going back to that location over and over on google maps. That is where I think those parts are. At the bottom of that body of water. IT had a very regular manmade shape which made me think quarry or maybe dam. The google coordinates were 35.869343,-81.432284 (38790 Deal Mill Rd.)

Those items, hands, amputated femur, humorus, and head are the items that make her most identifiable as Zahra. Some of those items are also the most likely ones to point to a real definitive COD. IMO that is why special care was taken to secrete those somwhere they will never be found.

 

[bessie]

"undescribed homicidal violence" What did she do to that poor child??

 

[writer7]

Here are the pdfs links again:

http://www.wbtv.com/global/link.asp?l=476992
^^^ autopsy

http://www.wbtv.com/global/link.asp?l=477003
^^^ about the humerus aka arm bone received separately

 

[tlcya]

We may never know the specifics Bessie, unless EB decides to divulge.

 

[Allusonz]

We may never know the specifics Bessie, unless EB decides to divulge.

i have to agree tl!!! The one solice i find in all of this is how a community has come together to keep her memory and that simply precious smile alive

 

[ynotdivein]

OK. Just reviewed the autopsy results more closely. First, I am ANGRY. (Typing very slowly here because I do not want a time out.)

I see the removal of hands, feet, etc. I still think there was a futile attempt to make the R femur "match" what might be found on the left. But can someone help me understand what is going on with the C6 through maybe C10 vertebrae that are denoted as missing on the diagram? How would that happen without trauma to the scapulae? Do I even want to know?

 

[tlcya]

I believe those damages could be explained by dismemberment or could be neck, head related trauma that ocurred premortem. I just can't tell by the autopsy report. I think either are possible.

 

[writer7]

OK. Just reviewed the autopsy results more closely. First, I am ANGRY. (Typing very slowly here because I do not want a time out.)

I see the removal of hands, feet, etc. I still think there was a futile attempt to make the R femur "match" what might be found on the left. But can someone help me understand what is going on with the C6 through maybe C10 vertebrae that are denoted as missing on the diagram? How would that happen without trauma to the scapulae? Do I even want to know?

It mentions scavenging occuring on the scapula and vertebrae and hip area. I think if those bones are easy to remove by digging animals after decomposition, they were probably carried off.

 

[ynotdivein]

It mentions scavenging occuring on the scapula and vertebrae and hip area. I think if those bones are easy to remove by digging animals after decomposition, they were probably carried off.

Ah writer... thank you for spelling it out for me and I'm sorry to make you have to do so.

Slightly OT but I hope the people involved in Zahra's recovery are getting the support they need.

 

[bessie]

OK. Just reviewed the autopsy results more closely. First, I am ANGRY. (Typing very slowly here because I do not want a time out.)

I see the removal of hands, feet, etc. I still think there was a futile attempt to make the R femur "match" what might be found on the left. But can someone help me understand what is going on with the C6 through maybe C10 vertebrae that are denoted as missing on the diagram? How would that happen without trauma to the scapulae? Do I even want to know?

Just a guess, but I think it's possible they were lost to scavengers.

ETA: Sorry, was reading from the bottom up and didn't see Writer's post.

 

[bessie]

The autopsy shows at least two different cutting tools were used. I hate to think about it, but I'm curious about the nature of the cuts and what kind of tools/blades do they suggest.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The autopsy shows at least two different cutting tools were used. I hate to think about it, but I'm curious about the nature of the cuts and what kind of tools/blades do they suggest.

Same here, Bessie. And I'd also like to know the ratios of the different cut marks. Where they 50/50, 20/80? Is this a case of someone just trying to figure out the most effective tool for the job via trial and error, or was it 2 people each using a different tool?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Poor Zahra...what a depraved act...despicable, heartwrenching to read of Zahra's dismemberment...CSI couldn't get all of Zahra, what a heartless, horrendous, depraved and indifferent individual...I am so angry..what possesses a human to act like a beast! One can't even call her an animal for animals only kill to survive...she is the devil in sheeps clothing...JMHO

Black heart and soul, this woman doesn't deserve to live...I wish the prosecution hadn't given this woman a deal. If ever a DP charge, this is it...I though Caylee's demise was horrendous but here comes the worst yet!..JMHO

Rest peacefully Zahra...

Justice for Zahra

 

[bessie]

Same here, Bessie. And I'd also like to know the ratios of the different cut marks. Where they 50/50, 20/80? Is this a case of someone just trying to figure out the most effective tool for the job via trial and error, or was it 2 people each using a different tool?

Those were my questions, too, when I posted MK. One person, two tools? Or, two persons, each with a separate tool? Then I watched the late replay of NG, and her expert is convinced some of the marks are stab wounds inflicted premortem, and the likely COD. I'm not sure if I agree or not. Any thoughts?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Those were my questions, too, when I posted MK. One person, two tools? Or, two persons, each with a separate tool? Then I watched the late replay of NG, and her expert is convinced some of the marks are stab wounds inflicted premortem, and the likely COD. I'm not sure if I agree or not. Any thoughts?

I haven't had a chance to take a second look at the autopsy diagram of cut marks. My mother board got fried last week and I'm on a system we had to piece together. Takes ages for anything to load. I plan on trying to look at that again after I make coffee, but right off the bat, I'd wonder about the direction of the cut marks. If they were all roughly across the bone, I think I'd be inclined to believe it was a crude attempt at dismemberment. If the cut marks showed a random pattern, especially with cuts going along the length of the bone, I'd have a very difficult time seeing that as an attempt to dismember. KWIM?