2012.02.07 - 911 Tapes Released

[diphi]

I thought the 911 person talking to Josh's sister did pretty well. She showed empathy but was able to bring the sister back to the main issue.

IMO

 

[Just K]

I just listened to all the 911 calls. Training is absolutely needed. I can't begin to fathom his nit-pickyness. Even when she did get the address correct, he continued to dismiss her concerns.

AND, how could ANYONE not know who Josh Powell was? In that town? How could they not get it? The 911 operator seemed totally oblivious to the whole situation.

IMO

One gets the feeling that a lot of agencies will learn many valuable lessons from this case.

911 operators should listen closely and they should be required to be up on local news and high profile cases.

Caseworkers should be trained and given repeated reminders on what to tell 911 operators.

Parents should not be allowed to dictate or coerce agencies re: where "supervised" visitation takes place.

Family and Juvenile Courts/Judges must suspend visitation if the parent is court ordered to participate in psych exams before that parent can be considered for any future change in custody.

 

[AnaTeresa]

If you listen to the call you hear that the caseworker provided the address at approximately 1:45 minutes. The remaining five minutes were spent answering questions for the dispatcher.

http://today.seattletimes.com/2012/02/911-audio-from-josh-powells-sister-boys-caseworker/

Even if the caseworker had whatever "training" that would have her giving the address sooner, the operator still would have gone through five more minutes of questioning. That small amount of time it took her to get the address? Wouldn't have mattered. Even if she had it memorized, she could have blanked in panic over the situation. NO amount of training can prepare you for something like this.

I really wish people would stop nitpicking the caseworker.

 

[MsWeatherwax]

I really, really appreciate that people are trying to learn something from this, but I still don't think that there's training, advice or a change in procedure that would help.

Let's say there's another case like this in the future. A caseworker takes a child/ren to an appointed meeting place, only to have the children grabbed from her and the parent locks the door, shutting her out. The minute the door bangs, she calls 911 and states that the children have been kidnapped, and gives a full accurate address. If that parent has decided to murder the child/ren, the vast majority would shoot them, stab them, beat them or suffocate them to death. By the time the first Police turned up, it would still all be over with the possible exception of beating or suffocation. Even if they were still alive when they arrived, would the Police immediately storm the house in that situation, or would they initially treat it as a hostage situation?

Aside from that, how often does this happen? It's off the top of my head, but I'd guess that the majority of kids killed by a non-custodial parent are kidnapped from the other parent/guardian. How many instances are there of children being murdered during a supervised access visit?

It is, as always, my opinion only but this case is so shocking because it's so exceptional. The utter callousness of JP's actions rightly makes people angry, and we need reasons and someone to blame. The most obvious person in this case is currently answering to a higher power, so we're looking elsewhere.

I would hate to think of that lady coming across this thread and wondering anew if something she could have done that day would have left those kids alive, because there was nothing that would have changed the outcome. MOO.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Even if the caseworker had whatever "training" that would have her giving the address sooner, the operator still would have gone through five more minutes of questioning. That small amount of time it took her to get the address? Wouldn't have mattered. Even if she had it memorized, she could have blanked in panic over the situation. NO amount of training can prepare you for something like this.

I really wish people would stop nitpicking the caseworker.

I share your wish!
Hope it's granted soon.

 

[Isabelle]

Right down to the tag number and color of her car, I mean, c'mom, was that really pertinent information for the operator to know? Those are questions that could have easily been provided once he dispatched that call to the deputies. All of that is disturbing enough to me but top it off with his condescending attitude, and that makes it just much to bear.

911 often does dispatch the call to officers in the field right away and then continue to gather information from the caller. I don't think that is the case here. I am still waiting on time the first 911 call went out and arrival of agencies to the home. Does anyone know if it has been released yet?

 

[Concerned Papa]

~Snipped~

outside vendors don't require MUCH IF ANY training on how to deal with an emergency situation involving the children they are there to supervise.

Since there is no IMO attached to the above post, it is being presented as factual. I would appreciate seeing a link detailing this absence of emergency case worker training procedure for THIS particular company.

~Snipped~

I am unaware of a single "in service" (training seminar) where we were trained on how to get information out succinctly in a 911 call.

How about preventing a mad man from trying to chop his children's heads off? Any seminars on that?

Perhaps there was a class on how to stop a who was prepared and determined to blow himself to hell and kill his little boys at the same time?

As heartbreaking and sad as it may be, Charlie and Braden were sentenced to die, by their father, the INSTANT that door was slamed in the social worker's face.

What are we talking acout here, 5 or 6 minutes before a 911 call was placed? It wouldn't have changed a thing, had the Chief of Police and his entire S.W.A.T. team accompanied this social worker to that locked door.

Those boy's fate was sealed the moment that door was closed and locked.

 

[Just K]

But, if the 911 operator and the caseworker had been properly prepared, then each of them would have fewer self doubts. I blame the system/laws/regulations/bi-laws/etc for allowing someone who was court ordered to undergo psychiatric testing before he could even be considered for custody, the DSHS for allowing JP to dictate or sway the agency as to where his visitation would take place and the 911 training procedures that allow this sort of delay when a child has been abducted by a non-custodial parent.

There are valuable lessons to be learned and it is definitely worth figuring out where the system broke down. The only way to prevent future "what ifs" would be to know that everything possible was done to protect the children.

JP should not have had an opportunity to shut any door. That is all I know.
I hope the caseworker knows that this is definitely not her fault. She should never have been put in that situation to begin with.

And no, there were no "in services" on how to deal with a mad man...really most of our specific training had to do with crisis intervention as it pertained to the children and the visiting parents/guardians. And there was never a time when the ratio was 1 to 3. The case worker shouldn't have had to be alone. If there was ever a case where two workers should have been present it would be this one because JP was suspected of killing his wife. Perhaps, in a case such as this, the caseworker should have been a man.

 

[~n/t~]

I really, really appreciate that people are trying to learn something from this, but I still don't think that there's training, advice or a change in procedure that would help.

Let's say there's another case like this in the future. A caseworker takes a child/ren to an appointed meeting place, only to have the children grabbed from her and the parent locks the door, shutting her out. The minute the door bangs, she calls 911 and states that the children have been kidnapped, and gives a full accurate address. If that parent has decided to murder the child/ren, the vast majority would shoot them, stab them, beat them or suffocate them to death. By the time the first Police turned up, it would still all be over with the possible exception of beating or suffocation. Even if they were still alive when they arrived, would the Police immediately storm the house in that situation, or would they initially treat it as a hostage situation?

Aside from that, how often does this happen? It's off the top of my head, but I'd guess that the majority of kids killed by a non-custodial parent are kidnapped from the other parent/guardian. How many instances are there of children being murdered during a supervised access visit?

It is, as always, my opinion only but this case is so shocking because it's so exceptional. The utter callousness of JP's actions rightly makes people angry, and we need reasons and someone to blame. The most obvious person in this case is currently answering to a higher power, so we're looking elsewhere.

I would hate to think of that lady coming across this thread and wondering anew if something she could have done that day would have left those kids alive, because there was nothing that would have changed the outcome. MOO.

It only takes one and then you get the copy cats. I think there is a huge lesson to be learned from this horrible case. Hope the higher ups are taking notes.

You're right there was nothing that would've stopped the madman from murdering his children on Sunday but if the laws are changed perhaps innocent children will be saved.

I don't have the answers.......the experts should do their homework.

 

[KMouse]

I didn't care for the way the male 911 operator spoke to the caseworker.
As soon as that woman said something about gas I would have thought he would have questioned her more about that.

Does this 911 system enable the dispatcher to talk to the caller and make a file and send it off to be dispatched at the same time?

 

[Isabelle]

I believe the person who was to supervise the visit acted appropriately and quickly. She did absolutely nothing wrong. That's my opinion as an semi-retired RN and I am sticking to it!

 

[KMouse]

I'd really like to know why the fire department was not called immediately after the woman stated she smelled gas.!!!! Why didn't the first 911 dispatcher do that?

I tend to go into panic mode when having to call 911, so that man at the dispatch would have been told to STFU and listen.

I agree.

Gas? Gasoline? Propane? From where? This line of questioning should have been done to figure out the gas issue. The fire department should have been dispatched immediately.

 

[diphi]

Even if the caseworker had whatever "training" that would have her giving the address sooner, the operator still would have gone through five more minutes of questioning. That small amount of time it took her to get the address? Wouldn't have mattered. Even if she had it memorized, she could have blanked in panic over the situation. NO amount of training can prepare you for something like this.

I really wish people would stop nitpicking the caseworker.

I'll venture to say most people here are empathetic to the case worker. No doubt, now that she's an eye-witness to the house fire, we're going to look at her responses closely. But, as we do that, we all know she is also a victim and I hope we will continue to view her that way. Still, yes, I for one will review her actions, not in a negative way at all, but just to gain more understanding of what happened that day.

IMO

 

[Isabelle]

I just listened to all the 911 calls. Training is absolutely needed. I can't begin to fathom his nit-pickyness. Even when she did get the address correct, he continued to dismiss her concerns.

AND, how could ANYONE not know who Josh Powell was? In that town? How could they not get it? The 911 operator seemed totally oblivious to the whole situation.

IMO

The 911 operator should be charged with negligence and child endangerment for his idiotic actions!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Josh Powell's pastor shares thoughts on murder-suicide




Josh Powell's pastor is speaking out in a statement e-mailed to FOX 13.

Pastor Timothy Atkins of the First Bible Church was among those who received an e-mail from Powell just before he killed his two children and then himself in a fire on Sunday. Atkins forwarded Powell's e-mail to FOX 13, which said simply: "I'm sorry. Good bye."

Topics
Suicide
Symptoms

Get It Now: FOX 13 News E-mail Newsletters and Text Message Alerts | Mobile Web Site and Smartphone Apps | Twitter and Facebook

He released this statement:

"We are all greatly impacted by the news in our community of the suicide of Josh Powell and the murder of his sons, Charlie and Braden. This has been a very difficult time for all of us as we look to the Lord God for His strength and hope. My family has been deeply affected because of my relationship with Josh as a neighbor, a pastor, and a friend. My wife and I have four children, three of whom attended school with Charlie at Carson Elementary School.

Although we had questions about the disappearance of Susan Powell, we made efforts to minister to him through giving counsel in making needed changes in his life and by speaking about the truth of the Gospel with him, showing him how he might receive salvation through Jesus Christ. We often quoted in our discussions the truth of Romans 10:11-13 “For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed . . . Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In October 2011, I helped Josh move from our neighborhood into the house in Graham. In November 2011, Josh asked us to assist him with child visitation by supervising visits with his sons. We were supervising weekly visits in our home for The Department of Social and Health Services between Josh, Charlie and Braden. Our children would play together during these visits.

I spoke with Josh on the phone Thursday night last week, and like so many others it seems, there was no indication of a problem or a change in his outlook. Josh spoke with me during that phone conversation about seeing him Sunday evening following the Sunday afternoon visit with his sons. We are continuing to be in prayer for the Cox family and the Powell family that they may receive mercy and find grace to help in this time of need. We are asking for the Lord's strength in our lives and the lives of all of us who need His help because of .............................


http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-j...hts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story

 

[Isabelle]

is there a link to hear the 911 calls made by the caseworker and the sister?

all i can find is the audio of fire dispatch

Is there a link to all of the 911 calls with time of calls?

 

[Softail]

To be completely frank and honest, there was nothing anyone could do from the moment JP decided he was going to do this, to the time he did this.

Everyone did their best, and while we can look back and see things we may have done differently, hindsight is always 20/20. Yes, we should look at, and examine, the series of events, but we should also always remember that we were NOT there, we did NOT have the pressure and the insanity in our faces, and we did NOT watch two children get brutally murdered by hatcheting and then explosions carried out by their father.

Josh Powell would have done this, period. It is luck, pure and simple, that we are not talking about a third murder (the S/W), or third and fourth murders (the Coxes).

I don't care how fast LE responded or didn't respond. They would never have been able to stop JP from igniting the blasts. Even if they were right outside, he would have done it.

If the 911 operator was a pure idiot, JP still would have done it.
If the 911 operator was able to send out squads right then, JP still would have done it.
If the kids had entered after the S/W, JP would have done it.
If visitation was not allowed, JP still would have done it, but at the Coxes' house.

It was gonna happen. From the moment when JP made up his mind this was how it was going to end, it was going to happen.

The responsibility of this lays only on JP. Not the social worker, and even if the 911 operator is a complete idiot, it's still not his fault. There were no actions anyone could take, even with dispatching immediately everything LE had including SWAT and HRT, that was going to stop JP.

JP was going to do what he did.

Best-
Herding Cats

FABULOUS POST! So true. I can see why some see him as rude or crass, but it is his job to gather information. HE had no idea what was to come. JP and ONLY JP is to blame!

 

[MsWeatherwax]

It only takes one and then you get the copy cats. I think there is a huge lesson to be learned from this horrible case. Hope the higher ups are taking notes.

You're right there was nothing that would've stopped the madman from murdering his children on Sunday but if the laws are changed perhaps innocent children will be saved.

I don't have the answers.......the experts should do their homework.

I agree completely, but I don't think the answers will be found in changing anything the case worker did that day.

 

[~n/t~]

Josh Powell's pastor shares thoughts on murder-suicide




Josh Powell's pastor is speaking out in a statement e-mailed to FOX 13.

Pastor Timothy Atkins of the First Bible Church was among those who received an e-mail from Powell just before he killed his two children and then himself in a fire on Sunday. Atkins forwarded Powell's e-mail to FOX 13, which said simply: "I'm sorry. Good bye."

Topics
Suicide
Symptoms

Get It Now: FOX 13 News E-mail Newsletters and Text Message Alerts | Mobile Web Site and Smartphone Apps | Twitter and Facebook

He released this statement:

"We are all greatly impacted by the news in our community of the suicide of Josh Powell and the murder of his sons, Charlie and Braden. This has been a very difficult time for all of us as we look to the Lord God for His strength and hope. My family has been deeply affected because of my relationship with Josh as a neighbor, a pastor, and a friend. My wife and I have four children, three of whom attended school with Charlie at Carson Elementary School.

Although we had questions about the disappearance of Susan Powell, we made efforts to minister to him through giving counsel in making needed changes in his life and by speaking about the truth of the Gospel with him, showing him how he might receive salvation through Jesus Christ. We often quoted in our discussions the truth of Romans 10:11-13 “For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed . . . Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In October 2011, I helped Josh move from our neighborhood into the house in Graham. In November 2011, Josh asked us to assist him with child visitation by supervising visits with his sons. We were supervising weekly visits in our home for The Department of Social and Health Services between Josh, Charlie and Braden. Our children would play together during these visits.

I spoke with Josh on the phone Thursday night last week, and like so many others it seems, there was no indication of a problem or a change in his outlook. Josh spoke with me during that phone conversation about seeing him Sunday evening following the Sunday afternoon visit with his sons. We are continuing to be in prayer for the Cox family and the Powell family that they may receive mercy and find grace to help in this time of need. We are asking for the Lord's strength in our lives and the lives of all of us who need His help because of .............................


http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-j...hts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story

Is he the pastor who got the email disclosing where his money is? I wonder.

 

[Just K]

Josh Powell's pastor shares thoughts on murder-suicide




Josh Powell's pastor is speaking out in a statement e-mailed to FOX 13.

Pastor Timothy Atkins of the First Bible Church was among those who received an e-mail from Powell just before he killed his two children and then himself in a fire on Sunday. Atkins forwarded Powell's e-mail to FOX 13, which said simply: "I'm sorry. Good bye."

Topics
Suicide
Symptoms

Get It Now: FOX 13 News E-mail Newsletters and Text Message Alerts | Mobile Web Site and Smartphone Apps | Twitter and Facebook

He released this statement:

"We are all greatly impacted by the news in our community of the suicide of Josh Powell and the murder of his sons, Charlie and Braden. This has been a very difficult time for all of us as we look to the Lord God for His strength and hope. My family has been deeply affected because of my relationship with Josh as a neighbor, a pastor, and a friend. My wife and I have four children, three of whom attended school with Charlie at Carson Elementary School.

Although we had questions about the disappearance of Susan Powell, we made efforts to minister to him through giving counsel in making needed changes in his life and by speaking about the truth of the Gospel with him, showing him how he might receive salvation through Jesus Christ. We often quoted in our discussions the truth of Romans 10:11-13 “For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed . . . Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

In October 2011, I helped Josh move from our neighborhood into the house in Graham. In November 2011, Josh asked us to assist him with child visitation by supervising visits with his sons. We were supervising weekly visits in our home for The Department of Social and Health Services between Josh, Charlie and Braden. Our children would play together during these visits.

I spoke with Josh on the phone Thursday night last week, and like so many others it seems, there was no indication of a problem or a change in his outlook. Josh spoke with me during that phone conversation about seeing him Sunday evening following the Sunday afternoon visit with his sons. We are continuing to be in prayer for the Cox family and the Powell family that they may receive mercy and find grace to help in this time of need. We are asking for the Lord's strength in our lives and the lives of all of us who need His help because of .............................


http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-j...hts-on-murdersuicide-20120208,0,2152397.story

OMG! This story just gets worse and worse. DSHS let an untrained citizen supervise the court ordered visitation?????????????? WTH?