2016.05.17 Batch 6 Discovery Docs ***GRAPHIC Content***

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The fact that she seems to be showing an extreme reaction makes me think this isn't the first time and she's "had it".
 
Lacyanna said:
Hi all,

This one stands out to me. It's one of the very few times I feel like TS actually mentions feeling controlled. Here you can see she is deeply bothered by this and makes it extremely clear she will not be standing for it anymore.

I could be wrong, and she may be bothered by something else, but I am pretty sure she means the toy being moved and him suggesting what she should do. Thoughts?

Bates: 37498-37567
2/15/2014:

MS: "Hey mama, if you can't make it till I get home. Maybe you should indulge a little bit, watch the recent video I sent you and play...I think your toy is probably under my pillow. I love you"

TS: Did you hear from them if not did you call? If you did not call let me call d first"

TS: "That's fine you're doing it for control. I've made it clear to you many times the past but that makes me crazy for you to control that do not try to do that"

TS: " Passive aggressive bulls**t does not work with me and it pisses me off"

TS: "Already found it it won't happen again

All else from MS from here never addresses her rant.

**I try to type word-for-word, but will hide cuss words and names.
Click to expand...

Gosh, I'm curious if the video was of MS with another women? YUCK
 
Frigga said:
Beach, your last post just made me think about something the detective said (and IIRC others have said this, as well), he said how articulate and personable Curtis is in his mannerisms and conversations. That he comes off as a gentleman (gag) but that Mark doesn't come off that way at all (I'm paraphrasing- totally), that Mark comes across cocky, combative and brash. Well, one thing is for sure- I'll be very glad of those dynamics come trial time or the next DCF hearing.

I sure would like to see Mark outsmarted at his own game. I have no doubt left in my mind that he was setting CWW for the fall the last few months of Teresa's life and I think Curtis has been in love with Mark (in one form or another) his whole life. Curtis helping to free Teresa's daughters from the grip that is Mark could be one form of a tiny bit of redemption. We shall see.
Click to expand...
Maybe I am seeing it just a little different from a male perspective but I have never seen any indicators that CWW privately desires MS. I think CWW was more the quiet, reserved type around women where MS was the abrupt, in your face quickly, brash type. I think they share everything. I think CWW used MS to break the ice in gaining tryst and was thankful for MS games. I think CWW used MS to open doors to the women. I feel they were both hetero.
I have heard mention a few times people think MS was setting CWW to take the fall. I think I believe MS thought CWW would drive to FL, do the deed, drive back to MO and LE never even connect CWW to the murder. I think MS thought LE would look at him (MS) see his has a CT alibi, then start looking for burglars, with the murder probably going unsolved in MS eyes. If CWW had told AW he was going fishing, or some other lie, this very well could have gone unsolved. Although, MS did in fact leave enough incriminating texts on real phones to lead LE to investigate CWW. Just a coupe of more small changes in MS/CWW strategy probably could have possibly made this unsolvable. What if MS had not texted, but rather called CWW saying I mailed you a check and burner, use word "other" if you want to burner text. Then, throw in if CWW/JR had not visited Walmart and been taped making purchases. I am not sure I think MS was setting CWW to take the fall. Maybe, possibly, if the heat did start rising on MS (but why would it, he was in CT) he did have a game plan B where CWW shoulders the fall.
If CWW/MS wanted to be better/smarter felons maybe they should have spent just a little more time after the wedding working on just a couple more fine details rather than menege' ing the night away.
 
Very good points Dale Tray! You have swayed me!
 
Knowing what we know from the last dump doc, he scares me. Even if he didnt had TS murdered, his sexual inappropriateness concerns me with the girls. I hope MAG gets permanent custody. jmo.
Click to expand...

Concernedmother, can you expound on what in the doc dump indicated this? Not that I doubt if for a minute, but was just wondering what indicated it in the documents.
 
Lisette..it is in this last set of doc dump...MS describes at least 2 incidents which I will not mention here because it f the girls, but it is about 'seeing'. I will try and find the info, I believe it is in MS calendar writings....if someone else finds it first please post. I do know what Concernedmotheris referring to.
 
MsJosie said:
Lisette..it is in this last set of doc dump...MS describes at least 2 incidents which I will not mention here because it f the girls, but it is about 'seeing'. I will try and find the info, I believe it is in MS calendar writings....if someone else finds it first please post. I do know what Concernedmotheris referring to.
Click to expand...

Its in the calendar writings. I just looked for it but had to stop. I couldnt stomach reading through any more of his sex ramblings to look for it. Who documents every time they have sex, the position, the kind and everything else? He makes me want to throw up.One thing that stood out today was he had no respect for her. If she wasnt feeling good or was asleep it didnt stop him.
 
DaleTray said:
Maybe I am seeing it just a little different from a male perspective but I have never seen any indicators that CWW privately desires MS. I think CWW was more the quiet, reserved type around women where MS was the abrupt, in your face quickly, brash type. I think they share everything. I think CWW used MS to break the ice in gaining tryst and was thankful for MS games. I think CWW used MS to open doors to the women. I feel they were both hetero.
I have heard mention a few times people think MS was setting CWW to take the fall. I think I believe MS thought CWW would drive to FL, do the deed, drive back to MO and LE never even connect CWW to the murder. I think MS thought LE would look at him (MS) see his has a CT alibi, then start looking for burglars, with the murder probably going unsolved in MS eyes. If CWW had told AW he was going fishing, or some other lie, this very well could have gone unsolved. Although, MS did in fact leave enough incriminating texts on real phones to lead LE to investigate CWW. Just a coupe of more small changes in MS/CWW strategy probably could have possibly made this unsolvable. What if MS had not texted, but rather called CWW saying I mailed you a check and burner, use word "other" if you want to burner text. Then, throw in if CWW/JR had not visited Walmart and been taped making purchases. I am not sure I think MS was setting CWW to take the fall. Maybe, possibly, if the heat did start rising on MS (but why would it, he was in CT) he did have a game plan B where CWW shoulders the fall.
If CWW/MS wanted to be better/smarter felons maybe they should have spent just a little more time after the wedding working on just a couple more fine details rather than menege' ing the night away.
Click to expand...

I agree with most everything you said. I don't believe MS set up CWW to get caught. I firmly believe that LE would have connected the dots immediately when seeing MS phone msg w/CWW. That silly code, lol! I think that as part of the investigation they would access MS' fb and see CWW there. That would be enough of a starting point to investigate his name and Ronnie Bolin's case would be another big ole' red flag to look even more closely into the relationship of CWW and MS and what one friend would do for another.

I think MS screwed himself while planning her murder by underestimating LE's capabilities. Pretty much everyone knows (unless they're completely clueless) the spouse is the first person looked at and either eliminated as a suspect or investigated deeply. It's a big problem when you think you're smarter than LE. Hubris.

Phones
Facebook (CWW brother)
Life Insurance
 
DaleTray said:
Maybe I am seeing it just a little different from a male perspective but I have never seen any indicators that CWW privately desires MS. I think CWW was more the quiet, reserved type around women where MS was the abrupt, in your face quickly, brash type. I think they share everything. I think CWW used MS to break the ice in gaining tryst and was thankful for MS games. I think CWW used MS to open doors to the women. I feel they were both hetero.
I have heard mention a few times people think MS was setting CWW to take the fall. I think I believe MS thought CWW would drive to FL, do the deed, drive back to MO and LE never even connect CWW to the murder. I think MS thought LE would look at him (MS) see his has a CT alibi, then start looking for burglars, with the murder probably going unsolved in MS eyes. If CWW had told AW he was going fishing, or some other lie, this very well could have gone unsolved. Although, MS did in fact leave enough incriminating texts on real phones to lead LE to investigate CWW. Just a coupe of more small changes in MS/CWW strategy probably could have possibly made this unsolvable. What if MS had not texted, but rather called CWW saying I mailed you a check and burner, use word "other" if you want to burner text. Then, throw in if CWW/JR had not visited Walmart and been taped making purchases. I am not sure I think MS was setting CWW to take the fall. Maybe, possibly, if the heat did start rising on MS (but why would it, he was in CT) he did have a game plan B where CWW shoulders the fall.
If CWW/MS wanted to be better/smarter felons maybe they should have spent just a little more time after the wedding working on just a couple more fine details rather than menege' ing the night away.
Click to expand...

Dale, as another male, I agree with you 100% that the case could have been unsolvable given the distance and if the MO boys had another story to those in MO why they were going out of town and where they were going. As a matter of fact JR should have never said he was leaving the state. What a dumbass thing to say.... 'Oh, we're going to Florida.' They did have a lot of the bases covered with burner phones, etc, but loose lips sink ships and that was what got the ball rolling. I don't think there was any plan whatsoever to make someone a fall guy nor do I see any evidence of physical attraction between CWW and MS. MS is too much of a skirt chaser for that.

Obviously, CWW is no angel but expanding on your thoughts plus MS's overall sick, manipulative personality I believe CWW thought of MS as a hero or a god of some sort, coming form small-town MO, being married to a doctor and living the good life in FL. I'll bet CWW thought MS was a financial wizard since he ran the family medical business and was a big shot. MS was going to take care of his wallet and that's all he needed to do the dirty deed for his idol. MS knew he could manipulate his down and out friend to do this since manipulation and lying is what he does - and he's good at it. Now that they've all been arrested and CWW is no longer under the spell of this guy, he's come clean figuring his hero can't do anything more for him. Its time to look out for #1 and I'm sure this was done under advice from his attorney since he can't seem to make a smart move on his own.

Thankfully, the guy(s) that MS happened to hire were simply incompetent and plain old screwed up. Otherwise we might not be having these conversations.

(BTW, Mods, I posted this inthe DCF thread in response to a post already here. Please feel free to move this in you feel necessary since mine doesn't really have anything to do ith DCF. Thanks. JJ.)
 
I recall a completely inappropriate reference from MS to TS (sorry, no detail as to where,, I gagged out of reading further at this juncture) that one of the daughters, had referenced seeing TS (their mother !!!) having stimulated/aroused breasts. The inference being, the child knew this to have a sexual reference. UGH.:gaah: ( >>is there one of these guys ... um,, puking? )

For the love of Mike, I do NOT, regardless of how it is couched,, that this could be deemed normal or appropriate.. again,, imho
 
Well, well, well.

Bates 37235
04/12/2015 MS to Female

Thanku!!
You can still stop by quickly tomorrow at my house If you want (haha)
The girls had a great time.
Safe travels to u all!
until July 1
 
Some observations that I noticed in MS's calender

Bates 37070 6/25/2013
Subject: Atty EMC docs
Location: Curt

Bates 37084 6/24/2013
Subject: Atty Martha Moran 314.727.5533 $425
Location: Jaemea

Bates 37080 6/6/2013
Subject: Curt atty $150 for tomorrow
Location: Bring EMC operating agreement & lian agreement

Bates 37076 6/14/2013
Subject: Curt atty for doc draft
Location: offer to purchase Laura bday

Bates 37076 6/14/2013
Subject: Send out minutes

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
shandram19 said:
Some observations that I noticed in MS's calender

Bates 37070 6/25/2013
Subject: Atty EMC docs
Location: Curt

Bates 37084 6/24/2013
Subject: Atty Martha Moran 314.727.5533 $425
Location: Jaemea

Bates 37080 6/6/2013
Subject: Curt atty $150 for tomorrow
Location: Bring EMC operating agreement & lian agreement

Bates 37076 6/14/2013
Subject: Curt atty for doc draft
Location: offer to purchase Laura bday

Bates 37076 6/14/2013
Subject: Send out minutes

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
BBM
Disability Lawyers in Saint Louis - Martha Moran
(Under location) is his sister's name
 
Upon re-reading after my first cursory read, it certainly seems that TS was fully into the whole "Hey there sexy momma" thing. I have no idea what was going on with the psyche of this obviously attractive, intelligent, educated woman. Why ingodsname she was attracted to MS in the first place is a mystery to me. And why she continued to apparently fall for his continuous line of bullshyte I do not know.

All I can say is I have seen this happen in my own life. I had a good friend - attractive, good job, divorced after many years of marriage. I had no idea she was apparently as vulnerable as she was. But she "fell in love" with a smooth-talking charlatan who took her for everything she had monetarily and emotionally. By the time all was said and done she had been stripped of what was a handsome divorce settlement from her first husband. Oh, yes, she married the idiot.

And he was all full of the "sexy lady" and "you are absolutely the most wonderful woman on the face of the earth" comments. Everyone who knew her who met this dude considered him to be a loser and could not understand what she saw in him. I know it was the first time in her life that she had experienced a good, lusty sex life. And likely the first time a man had ever dished out the steady stream of compliments. Whatever it was, she fell for it hook, line and sinker.

I did stick by her throughout the length of heir marriage. Despite the husband doing his very best to alienate us. He and I got into verbal exchanges more than a few times. Eventually as the bloom wore off the rose and he began to lose control of her, the hubby turned to alcohol then domestic violence. That was a terrible time but it woke my friend up and she finally got out of the relationship. Broke, but she got out.

So I think sometimes intelligence and education is trumped by longstanding, deep emotional needs. People are vulnerable and they don't even realize it. Then a manipulator like MS comes along, recognizes that vulnerability, and seems to know exactly what to do to fill those emotional needs. In my friend's case, the "good sex" was a big, big portion of the relationship. And that lasted long after she had come to the realization of what a loser he was in other areas such as work, dependability, etc.

I am old(er). I look back at the men and relationships in my own life and consider myself to be very lucky that I was never that vulnerable! But I do realize that some people are.
 
AlwaysShocked said:
Upon re-reading after my first cursory read, it certainly seems that TS was fully into the whole "Hey there sexy momma" thing. I have no idea what was going on with the psyche of this obviously attractive, intelligent, educated woman. Why ingodsname she was attracted to MS in the first place is a mystery to me. And why she continued to apparently fall for his continuous line of bullshyte I do not know.

All I can say is I have seen this happen in my own life. I had a good friend - attractive, good job, divorced after many years of marriage. I had no idea she was apparently as vulnerable as she was. But she "fell in love" with a smooth-talking charlatan who took her for everything she had monetarily and emotionally. By the time all was said and done she had been stripped of what was a handsome divorce settlement from her first husband. Oh, yes, she married the idiot.

And he was all full of the "sexy lady" and "you are absolutely the most wonderful woman on the face of the earth" comments. Everyone who knew her who met this dude considered him to be a loser and could not understand what she saw in him. I know it was the first time in her life that she had experienced a good, lusty sex life. And likely the first time a man had ever dished out the steady stream of compliments. Whatever it was, she fell for it hook, line and sinker.

I did stick by her throughout the length of heir marriage. Despite the husband doing his very best to alienate us. He and I got into verbal exchanges more than a few times. Eventually as the bloom wore off the rose and he began to lose control of her, the hubby turned to alcohol then domestic violence. That was a terrible time but it woke my friend up and she finally got out of the relationship. Broke, but she got out.

So I think sometimes intelligence and education is trumped by longstanding, deep emotional needs. People are vulnerable and they don't even realize it. Then a manipulator like MS comes along, recognizes that vulnerability, and seems to know exactly what to do to fill those emotional needs. In my friend's case, the "good sex" was a big, big portion of the relationship. And that lasted long after she had come to the realization of what a loser he was in other areas such as work, dependability, etc.

I am old(er). I look back at the men and relationships in my own life and consider myself to be very lucky that I was never that vulnerable! But I do realize that some people are.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing. I would like to ask a question and feel free not to answer. You were older and recognized the signs. I'm sure your friend knew your opinion since she knew you had exchanged heated words with her 2nd husband. If you had tried to guide her or maybe more strongly expressed your opinion of him, would you have lost her as a friend? She could have enjoyed the good parts of the relationship w/o marriage since he wasn't capable of meeting her needs other than in one department. Are we learning with your friend and maybe with TS friends/family maybe we need to be a little more vocal, or do we just slightly express our opinion then allow our friends, grown educated adults make their own decisions and be their with bottle of wine when the chips fall? I think we men do vocalize quicker and stronger and our buddies hear,listen and not hold grudges long term. We men appreciate the outside opinion advice. BUT, when that one section of the relationship is that strong we men can often remain a glutton for punishment. You know what they say about how men compare to linoleum.
 
My best friend since I was age 13 had a hubby who was into drugs. He was a Vietnam vet. He is a great guy. He is just receiving treatment for PTSD in the last couole of years!

I would tell her the things he was doing ( where their money was really going). She did not like hearing it. So I stopped saying anything.

When she was ready, I totally supported her.

I think people can say a few things and then let it drop if you feel hostility coming from your friend.

I think sometimes it is easier hearing something from a stranger.

But TS ended up getting murdered. I don't know if anyone would have predicted that. But perhaps if they had known a lot of things about their financial situation and his friends, there may have been concern.

He creeps me out totally. But can we guess someone would be a killer???
 
DaleTray said:
Thanks for sharing. I would like to ask a question and feel free not to answer. You were older and recognized the signs. I'm sure your friend knew your opinion since she knew you had exchanged heated words with her 2nd husband. If you had tried to guide her or maybe more strongly expressed your opinion of him, would you have lost her as a friend? She could have enjoyed the good parts of the relationship w/o marriage since he wasn't capable of meeting her needs other than in one department. Are we learning with your friend and maybe with TS friends/family maybe we need to be a little more vocal, or do we just slightly express our opinion then allow our friends, grown educated adults make their own decisions and be their with bottle of wine when the chips fall? I think we men do vocalize quicker and stronger and our buddies hear,listen and not hold grudges long term. We men appreciate the outside opinion advice. BUT, when that one section of the relationship is that strong we men can often remain a glutton for punishment. You know what they say about how men compare to linoleum.
Click to expand...


First of all, to clarify, I never got into exchanging heated words with him until later on. At the beginning of their relationship I felt she was being "rushed" and advised her to take her time, that she barely knew the man. I pointed out that she had never met any of his relatives, and had only ever met one of his three children. Plus, I noticed and pointed out to her that he did not seem to have any friends.

None of this seemed to make any difference. She seemed to be besotted by him. She said "But the sex is so great" a lot. (I think I had not realized until then exactly how "deprived" her sex life was with her husband.) Maybe she had not realized that either. In any case, I soon could see it was a losing battle. And yes, I would have likely lost a valued friendship had I continued to express my serious reservations about him. So I made the decision to just shut my mouth.

He talked her into marriage 6 months into the relationship. Later I learned that he had also talked her into "paying off those pesky debts he had hanging around from his first marriage" before they were even married! And this was a significant amount of money. I suppose she didn't share that with me at the time because she knew what I would say to her.

Yeah, it is really tough when you see a friend "stepping in front of a train" in your opinion. But you can only say so much and that is it. People make mistakes in life. Thankfully in most cases the outcome is just a divorce, not murder.
 
JolietJake said:
Dale, as another male, I agree with you 100% that the case could have been unsolvable given the distance and if the MO boys had another story to those in MO why they were going out of town and where they were going. As a matter of fact JR should have never said he was leaving the state. What a dumbass thing to say.... 'Oh, we're going to Florida.' They did have a lot of the bases covered with burner phones, etc, but loose lips sink ships and that was what got the ball rolling. I don't think there was any plan whatsoever to make someone a fall guy nor do I see any evidence of physical attraction between CWW and MS. MS is too much of a skirt chaser for that.

Obviously, CWW is no angel but expanding on your thoughts plus MS's overall sick, manipulative personality I believe CWW thought of MS as a hero or a god of some sort, coming form small-town MO, being married to a doctor and living the good life in FL. I'll bet CWW thought MS was a financial wizard since he ran the family medical business and was a big shot. MS was going to take care of his wallet and that's all he needed to do the dirty deed for his idol. MS knew he could manipulate his down and out friend to do this since manipulation and lying is what he does - and he's good at it. Now that they've all been arrested and CWW is no longer under the spell of this guy, he's come clean figuring his hero can't do anything more for him. Its time to look out for #1 and I'm sure this was done under advice from his attorney since he can't seem to make a smart move on his own.

Thankfully, the guy(s) that MS happened to hire were simply incompetent and plain old screwed up. Otherwise we might not be having these conversations.

(BTW, Mods, I posted this inthe DCF thread in response to a post already here. Please feel free to move this in you feel necessary since mine doesn't really have anything to do ith DCF. Thanks. JJ.)
Click to expand...

Dale and Joliet, I'll take it one step further - I do believe that there is a relationship between CWW and MS and that MS is the shot-caller - using sex and money to keep CWW at his beck and call. CWW likely did think of MS as a hero of sorts. Go figure. Look at Bates 36933, Calendar entry #112? Who is "assisting" CWW with sex? Must be MS, right? the date is one where TS was out of town for a conference. The skirt chasing is a good cover and really, there is likely bisexuality involved. And let's not forget the heightened sexuality that goes along with meth use. No doubt in my mind that CWW and MS were sexually involved and that TS had no idea.

This may be why MS wants to get CWW in the same courtroom with him in the custody case prior to the criminal case. Perhaps he thinks he can work his manipulative magic on CWW yet again and intimidate him. How else would he get to see CWW before the criminal case if not by calling him as a bogus witness in the custody case?
 
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