4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #92

[Boxer]

I thought the CAST is evidence and the defense has a right to the evidence that will be used. I am not understanding why the defense doesn't have it.

The alibi was due and not submitted.

His defense team submitted that "Mr. Kohberger has a long habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night. He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022. Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time."

The above is not an alibi.

An alibi is part of the defense discovery, it was not provided.

 

[Cool Cats]

The alibi was due and not submitted.

His defense team submitted that "Mr. Kohberger has a long habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night. He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022. Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time."

The above is not an alibi.

An alibi is part of the defense discovery, it was not provided.

Not provided I believe because he did the crime but that doesn't change the fact that there is a CAST report used to arrest him so his attorneys need to see it but maybe I'm not understanding what exactly the CAST report is.

 

[snooptroop88]

The alibi was due and not submitted.

His defense team submitted that "Mr. Kohberger has a long habit of going for drives alone. Often he would go for drives at night. He did so late on November 12 and into November 13, 2022. Mr. Kohberger is not claiming to be at a specific location at a specific time."

The above is not an alibi.

An alibi is part of the defense discovery, it was not provided.

Agreed. There's nothing there. It looks like he's looking for a stall tactic, maybe trying to find an alibi. Well, something he can pass off as one to his fan club (not being sarcastic, I know he has one, and this comment is not directed at people that just happen to believe he's innocent based on logic). The whole point of an alibi is you wouldn't have to '"create" it. I don't know what this is, what this is supposed to be. I really mean it when I say only with BK, the academician turned (allegedly) killer. MOO, we're going to see things with this defendant that are mind-boggling. A Svengali of defendants, and he may be manipulating even now in terms of how his defense strategy plays out, again, JMO.

There's too good a case against him for him to be doing this. If there really is an alibi, please produce it. I saw a headline from July that D "suggests" an alibi. This has gone beyond the "suggesting" phase. He should have been "spelling out" some time ago. My guess is there's nothing to articulate. I see people on sources saying D's trying to "corroborate" something with the CAST that will read like an alibi, he was driving, never stopped at times of murder. But the point is, these people have to guess even at this point, nobody has a clue where this is going, if anywhere. Nothing's been articulated by D, and it should have been by now. This is another "BK, Esq" term paper, JMO. When the smoke clears, there'll be no alibi. But there's surely going to be plenty of smoke. Hope for the D's sake I'm wrong, but I unfortunately doubt it. Just seeing this/source: "Last year, Kohberger's attorney provided some brief information about a possible alibi defense saying 'evidence corroborating Mr. Kohberger being at a location other than the King Road address will be disclosed pursuant to discovery and evidentiary rules as well as statutory requirements.'" I still think in the end, it'll smoke, MOO.

 

[Balthazar]

I thought the CAST is evidence and the defense has a right to the evidence that will be used. I am not understanding why the defense doesn't have it.

According to BT the FBI CAST will not be complete until the end of March, 2024. In the Murdaugh case, it took a full year. Now we're at more than a year for this one. We'll see what happens.

However, CAST reports can be incorrect and the cellular industry DOES NOT recognize the accuracy of the method used by the FBI to create a CAST report. Unfortunately, there have been no studies to prove this FBI CAST methodology accurate, so, depending on what the final CAST report says, this may be a big point of dispute during the trial.

Here's the FBI's Internal Guide for Getting Data from AT&T, T-Mobile, Verizon

The newly obtained document shows in granular detail the sort of data that the country's carriers keep, and for how long.

www.vice.com

All JMO.

 

[Balthazar]

As example, the CAST information is mentioned in the PCA Exhibit A in the second to last paragraph on page 12 and on page 13. This CAST information appears to contradict information found on page 7 or, at the very least, leads to numerous questions. (I'm looking at the page numbers typed at the bottom of each page, not those to the side of the document linked below.)

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

AT is likely looking for clarification.

All JMO.

 

[al66pine]

ALIBIs. A Law Review Article ....

.... statistics of exoneration cases in the USA, 2/3's of the innocent defendants who were convicted presented an alibi at their original trial and were convicted anyway....

Investigating and Presenting an Alibi Defense

The New Jersey Supreme Court has said that “few defenses have greater potential for creating reasonable doubt as to a defendant's guilt in the minds of the [jur

papers.ssrn.com

All JMO.

snipped for focus @Balthazar
Thx for pulling info from the law review article* you linked.

An interesting read.
__________________________________

Investigating and Presenting an Alibi Defense

The New Jersey Supreme Court has said that “few defenses have greater potential for creating reasonable doubt as to a defendant's guilt in the minds of the [jur

papers.ssrn.com

 

[Swansee]

As example, the CAST information is mentioned in the PCA Exhibit A in the second to last paragraph on page 12 and on page 13. This CAST information appears to contradict information found on page 7 or, at the very least, leads to numerous questions. (I'm looking at the page numbers typed at the bottom of each page, not those to the side of the document linked below.)

RSBM.
Indeed, it's confusing.

Per cameras, he is traveling north on Nevada at 2:44, and then south on Nevada at 2:53.
Per CAST, he is leaving his residence and traveling south through Pullman between 2:42 and 2:47.

Perhaps the wording in the PCA is erroneous, especially regarding that 2:44 northbound movement. Otherwise it does seem that the movements recorded by cameras and CAST may be contradictory.

 

[Sleuth2010]

For the families who find this entire nightmare unfathomable... we learned from a qualified professional psychologist, who worked in the Oregon prisons with the worst-of-the-worst killers, he used the analogy that the killers brains are cross wired. ( Like someone who would eat dog feces in the yard. It will never make sense to " normal human beings.")

That this killer could enter college student's home ( sidebar: which needed a privacy wall and should never have been torn down prior to trial) and murder in such a heinous way, will never have true answers or make any sense.
The goodness is that Chief Fry and the teams, were able to get this killer off the streets. Incredible, miraculous, great law enforcement work, well done. Goodness always prevails.

For all those personally effected, when the killer is put to death, they will have RELIEF. No sense of justice, but simple relief. He will be off this earth and that will bring relief.

Spring, and this week, is a special time of year.
Hopefully those so deeply hurting can find some solace and know that love always wins. There is relief on the horizon. The legal and law enforcement are battling it out. Goodness prevails over the darkness of evil murder.

IMO MOO JMO

/////

 

[Megnut]

RSBM.
Indeed, it's confusing.

Per cameras, he is traveling north on Nevada at 2:44, and then south on Nevada at 2:53.
Per CAST, he is leaving his residence and traveling south through Pullman between 2:42 and 2:47.

Perhaps the wording in the PCA is erroneous, especially regarding that 2:44 northbound movement. Otherwise it does seem that the movements recorded by cameras and CAST may be contradictory.

Is there any possibility of a time differential between those locations? Time zone or DST/vs no DST...

I'll see myself out.

 

[Balthazar]

Is there any possibility of a time differential between those locations? Time zone or DST/vs no DST...

I'll see myself out.

No.

 

[Swansee]

Is there any possibility of a time differential between those locations? Time zone or DST/vs no DST...

I'll see myself out.

Your question actually raises another issue (this isn't an original thought of mine, it's been discussed since the PCA came out, just not much on this forum):
The two locations (BK's residence at Steptoe Appartements and the Nevada intersection with Stadium Way) are a 6 minute drive apart (yes even at that time of night).
Yet BK supposedly gets from one to the other in 2 minutes, which is basically impossible, especially since he is somehow is seen arriving on Nevada northbound, which makes even less sense since it was a southbound journey from Steptoe to Nevada. (See pic)
Then, per PCA, he is driving up and then down Nevada (a small street) for a full 9 minutes, which, contrary to what the PCA claims, is inconsistent with him "traveling south through Pullman" from his residence at the same time.
There are only a few possible explanations. Either there are errors in the PCA, or one of those Elantras is not BK's, or the CAST location is imprecise. Either one of the latter two would be bad for the prosecution, since it would allow the defense to cast doubts about all the other locations they claim to place his car and/or his pings.
What I really want to know is where the CAST data puts him prior to 2:42. Had he really already been driving around for hours, as AT states in the brief official alibi document? Or does the data show him stationary at Steptoe Appartements ? This is the kind of data I imagine AT is expecting from the full CAST report to back up the alibi.
As for us, we probably won't find out until trial, unfortunately.

 

[snooptroop88]

As example, the CAST information is mentioned in the PCA Exhibit A in the second to last paragraph on page 12 and on page 13. This CAST information appears to contradict information found on page 7 or, at the very least, leads to numerous questions. (I'm looking at the page numbers typed at the bottom of each page, not those to the side of the document linked below.)

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

AT is likely looking for clarification.

All JMO.

Bottom of p7 is here, right? Pullman, "2:44 a.m. on November 13, 2022, a white sedan, which was consistent with the description of the White Elantra known as Suspect Vehicle 1, was observed on WSU surveillance cameras travelling north on southeast Nevada Street at northeast Stadium Way. At approximately 2:53 a.m., a white sedan, which is consistent with the description of the White Elantra known as Suspect Vehicle 1, was observed traveling southeast on Nevada Street in Pullman, WA towards SR 270."


So are you talking about this part on 13? "At approximately 2:47 a.m., the 8458 Phone utilized cellular resources that provide coverage southeast of the Kohberger Residence consistent with the 8458 Phone leaving the Kohberger Residence and traveling south through Pullman, WA' This is consistent with the movement of the white Elantra. At approximately 2:47 a.m. the 8458 Phone stops reporting to the network, which is consistent with either the phone being in an area without cellular coverage, the connection to the network is disabled (such as putting the phone in airplane mode), or that the phone is tumed off The 8458 Phone does not report to the network again until approximately 4:48 a.m"

As noted by Swansee, it's about 6 min drive from his apartment to that area near SE Nevada/ne Stadium Way. The 2:53 from p7 sounds about right with that, but the 2:44 from p7 would be an issue an issue, right, and would assume there would have to be a mistake here and it's on p13 because the 2:47 can't cover both him leaving and traveling south AND the 2:47 "stops reporting to the network." Interesting to see the Jack in the Box is at one end of that ne Stadium Way and right near his apartments. That's the one Xana ordered from, I believe. That's pretty creepy. When the case was in the early stages, I wondered if he (BK, if perp) had ordered it. I still kind of wonder if he has some connection with it. Notably, Kaylee's ex's name is Jack, I wondered if the twisted perp was trying to send some kind of message related to him. Someone let me know if this map is off, I am not good with maps.

 

[Boxer]

For the word "document" I assume proof/evidence like a video still-shot of a similar car but it has the front license plate of which BK did not have.

All I can think of is proof that the car on King Rd was a different car than BK's car. In other words, not giving an actual alibi but instead trying to disprove existing evidence.

Seems to be what Taylor is good at.

2 Cents

MOO CAST is going to be cell location only.
His last heading before his phone went off on east Pullman and when it went back on briefly south of Moscow, then went fully on routing back to Pullman.

Also, that means he either had a charger with him in the car or he intentionally turned the phone off and on since the phone came back on while the car was in motion.

 

[Cool Cats]

MOO CAST is going to be cell location only.
His last heading before his phone went off on east Pullman and when it went back on briefly south of Moscow, then went fully on routing back to Pullman.

Also, that means he either had a charger with him in the car or he intentionally turned the phone off and on since the phone came back on while the car was in motion.

It was posted that the defense doesn't have the CAST report but I can't find links to confirm. I believe the defense does have their client's cell information because it is what "proves" that the defendant was "out driving."

The defense wouldn't admit this without that phone proof.

2 Cents

 

[Swansee]

@Cool Cats , the defense don't have the full CAST report. Nobody does, because it isn't finished. It will be finished on March 31st. It was all stated during the last hearing, during the segment where they discuss the alibi.

 

[Cool Cats]

@Cool Cats , the defense don't have the full CAST report. Nobody does, because it isn't finished. It will be finished on March 31st. It was all stated during the last hearing, during the segment where they discuss the alibi.

Thanks!

Was getting confusing.

 

[Boxer]

As example, the CAST information is mentioned in the PCA Exhibit A in the second to last paragraph on page 12 and on page 13. This CAST information appears to contradict information found on page 7 or, at the very least, leads to numerous questions. (I'm looking at the page numbers typed at the bottom of each page, not those to the side of the document linked below.)

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

AT is likely looking for clarification.

All JMO.

I looked. What is the discrepancy you are talking about?

 

[snooptroop88]

I looked. What is the discrepancy you are talking about?

I want to know the same thing because the language I see for what I thought was the inconsistency I thought Balthazar ad in mind-- it actually does work, it says his 2:47 movements would have been "consistent with" him having already left and then moving through Pullman.

 

[snooptroop88]

Back to the inconsistency on the cellular data. Is this the issue? "On November 13,2022 al approximately 2:42 a.m., the 8458 Phone was utilizing cellular resources that provide coverage to 1630 Northeast Valley Road, Apt G201, Pullman, WA, hereafter the 'Kohberger Residence.'"

Not squaring with this: " "2:44 a.m. on November 13, 2022, a white sedan, which was consistent with the description of the White Elantra known as Suspect Vehicle 1, was observed on WSU surveillance cameras travelling north on southeast Nevada Street at northeast Stadium Way"

That could be explained by the areas of tower coverage, I would think. ? Meaning it's 6 minutes between these locations. Maybe he was in the first coverage area at 2:42, but "just barely," he was already in motion, and he has moved to the second area (showing Nevada) by that 2:44 time. I think I saw someone earlier talking about this same issue, going to pick back through and see. The times may just seem skewed because of his placement within coverage area. And maybe all these locations are within the same coverage area, but with weaker signal at certain points.

 

[Boxer]

Not sure I am talking about same thing but Google maps tells me the distance is 1.5 miles between Steptoe Apts and southeast Nevada Street at northeast Stadium Way.
Driving 30-45 mph it takes 2 minutes.