4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #92

[Megnut]

If X hadn't been hungry, she might've been asleep. E too. If K hadn't come up for the weekend, M would have been alone in her bed. No Murphy.

BK could have slid in unnoticed, killed his target without scuffle or sound, never lost sight or handle of his sheath and exited as quietly as he entered.

No peculiar or annoying sounds to bother/awaken the roommate. No collateral damage, no multiple murders.

And where would speculation be? The white car would've been captured. Enough to link to a certain vehicle/owner? No DNA, no eye witness, no description.

Easy to assume intimate partner violence...

Easy to hawk about the nerve, murdering one person when four residents slept nearby. The kind of fearlessness Ted Bundy enjoyed.

IMO this was an absolute horrific slaying of one woman which quickly disintegrated into a frenzy of murders due only to the unpredictable nighttime habits of college students.

And the irony. IMO even BK expected everyone to be asleep at that hour. Everyone but him.

Just like when LE raided his parents' home. Expected everyone to be asleep at that hour. But guess who wasn't. BK. He must fancy himself some sort of nocturnal werewolf... perhaps finding perverse power in While You Were Sleeping. I think he mastered it in the home in which he grew up. Stealth.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

@Megnut, we have not heard much from BK's family. Ted Bundy's family has several stories about him as a child, fixated on knives, doing some strange things. I wonder if someone will write a book about BK, and we will learn more about his childhood.

 

[Balthazar]

What is the source for this? I've not seen anything documenting that the dna was from skin cells....

The police are the source of this information according to the Idaho Statesman. This is the google preview of the link:
"A leather sheath for a Ka-Bar brand combat-style knife was found at the off-campus home where the U of I students were killed. Investigators located a single source of male touch DNA on the sheath's button snap, which was later linked to Kohberger, police have said.Jan 12, 2024"

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article284187013.html

It has been discussed extensively in Howard Blum's Eyes of a Killer on Airmail and by various DNA experts such as this one:

Court documents reveal how DNA left at King Road crime scene led to Bryan Kohberger's arrest

Investigators found a knife sheath near one of the victims which contained the microscopic clue.

www.krem.com

 

[al66pine]

Jury Pools

Will the jury pool consist of the entire county, though? Not just Moscow, but all of Latah County?

@Sundog
Per Idaho law below, jury commission maintains "county jury list" compiled from voter registration lists for the county & "other lists of persons resident therein."
Commission randomly draws names from county jury list.
________________________________________
"2-206. MASTER AND COUNTY JURY LISTS OF REGISTERED VOTERS — SUPPLEMENTATION BY OTHER LISTS DESIGNATED BY SUPREME COURT... 1) The jury commission for each county shall compile and maintain a county jury list consisting of the current voter registration list for the county supplemented with names from other lists of persons resident therein, such as lists of utility customers, property taxpayers, motor vehicle registrations, drivers’ licenses, and state identification cards, which the supreme court from time to time designates...."

2023 Idaho Code :: Title 2 - JURIES AND JURORS :: Chapter 2 - JURY SELECTION AND SERVICE :: Section 2-206 - MASTER AND COUNTY JURY LISTS OF REGISTERED VOTERS — SUPPLEMENTATION BY OTHER LISTS DESIGNATED BY SUPREME COURT — LIST AVAILABLE TO COMMISSION

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

"2-208. NAMES RANDOMLY DRAWN FROM COUNTY JURY LIST...
"(1) The court or any other state or county official having authority to conduct a trial or hearing with a jury within the county may direct the jury commission to draw and assign to that court or official the number of qualified jurors deemed necessary..."

2022 Idaho Code :: Title 2 - JURIES AND JURORS :: Chapter 2 - JURY SELECTION AND SERVICE :: Section 2-208 - NAMES RANDOMLY DRAWN FROM COUNTY JURY LIST — QUALIFICATION QUESTIONNAIRE FORMS FOR PROSPECTIVE JURORS — MAILING AND RETURN — ORDER TO APPEAR —

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

Table of contents for Chapter 2 -JURY SELECTION AND SERVICE

2022 Idaho Code :: Title 2 - JURIES AND JURORS :: Chapter 2 - JURY SELECTION AND SERVICE

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Try as AT might, a good DNA analyst will be able to explain to jurors like they are 5. Not being sarcastic at all, you need a good expert who can make the jury comfortable and talk to them on a lay person's level. Most average jurors are not going to know about DNA beyond the basics.

I'm good with the single source DNA 5+ octillion odds of belonging to BK on the knife sheath snap found under one of the victims.

MOO

From statistics I posted in the past .....
DNA is the most important piece of evidence to a jury.

I believe the DNA "seals the deal" for a conviction but I wonder if he could be convicted without the DNA?
Would the car videos and cell tower logs and the eye witness statement be enough? Also add on his confession that he was driving around that general area that night.

The DNA supports the eye witness testimony.
A witness describes a person she saw and this description happens to fit the DNA that was found.

The sex, height, build, and facial feature. Not just a couple of things - 4 significant things.

2 Cents

 

[snooptroop88]

I really wonder if this was the first kill for BK. Yes, it was four people. I just wonder if he has done a random killing previously. Any unsolved women killed or missing where he lived or traveled?

I think that he saw one of the girls, and was fixated, living some fantasy relationship in his head.

Agreed. Quadruple homicide in an indoor setting doesn't seem like it would be a first attempt. He did leave the sheath, so I know some think it had to have been his first murder, but I wouldn't be too sure. May have been. I've looked at Kortne Stouffer in the past & have wondered about BK. Also, there are abandoned old hotels & resorts in the Poconos area and some crime occurs in association with those.

KORTNE CIERA STOUFFER - PALMYRA, PENNSYLVANIA | Federal Bureau of Investigation

Palmyra, Pennsylvania July 29, 2012

www.fbi.gov

'11 years of trauma and heartbreak:' Family of Kortne Stouffer look for answers after disappearance

It’s been 11 years since the disappearance of 21-year-old Kortne Stouffer. Friends, family and loved ones are still looking for answers and asking for public help.

www.fox43.com

Kortne Stouffer: A family haunted by a painful mystery

Police were called to Kortne Stouffer’s apartment multiple times the night before she disappeared.

www.newsnationnow.com

Abandoned Pocono resort catches fire— and it’s not the first time

STROUD TOWNSHIP, MONROE COUNTY (WBRE/WYOU-TV) A once iconic honeymoon destination is reduced to ashes after flames destroyed a former Pocono resort last night. Eyewitness News spoke to people about…

www.pahomepage.com

Abandoned Poconos resort searched in Eric Frein manhunt burns

The Penn Hills Resort opened in the 1940s and closed about a decade ago.

www.lehighvalleylive.com

 

[Cool Cats]

Is there any possible scenario where we see an "OJ Simpson" or "Casey Anthony" outcome here? BK goes to trial, and some glitch, or Juror sway, and BK is found "Not Guilty", so he just walks out into society a free man?

NO

 

[mickey2942]

NO

It seems like his defense team is very aggressive and skilled. I don't have the same confidence that you are so definite about.

 

[Cool Cats]

It seems like his defense team is very aggressive and skilled. I don't have the same confidence that you are so definite about.

I'm pretty definite in my belief that Bill Thompson can convice a jury that BK murdered 4 people in cold blood

IF ....

1.) Jurors believe the weapon used was a large fixed blade knife.
2.) Jurors believe a sheath was found under a victim in their bed.
3.) Jurors believe the sheath is made to fit a large fixed blade knife.
4.) Jurors believe that DNA was found on the knife sheath.
5.) Jurors believe that the DNA found on the knife sheath matches BK's DNA and that it is 5.37 Octillion times likely to be BK's DNA.
6.) Jurors believe that BK touched the knife sheath and do not believe that BK's DNA was planted by someone else.
7.) Jurors believe all this beyond a reasonable doubt.

Now add in =

Witness testimony
Car videos that look like BK's white Elantra
Car videos without a front license plate which Washingtin requires but Pennsylvania does not
Cell tower records directly linked to BK's phone
BK driving around the area
BK saying he doesn't know where he was at 4:00am

And possible evidence we haven't seen but has been alluded to in MSM such as BK messaging a victim, buying a knife, wearing gloves after the murders, plus possible digital evidence which could show BK researching the King road house or researching the victims.

Jennifer Crumbley (Michigan school shooter case) had deleted some of her text messages but LE was able to retrieve them.

There is so much evidence I find it unlikely that we have "seen" all of it. Massive amount of evidence.

2 Cents

 

[maskedwoman]

I really wonder if this was the first kill for BK. Yes, it was four people. I just wonder if he has done a random killing previously. Any unsolved women killed or missing where he lived or traveled?

I think that he saw one of the girls, and was fixated, living some fantasy relationship in his head.

It's certainly a reasonable question. I'm sure LE had the same thought. LE in PA stated shortly after his arrest that they were looking into unsolved cases in his area but it doesn't appear that they ever matched him up to anything.

 

[snooptroop88]

Try as AT might, a good DNA analyst will be able to explain to jurors like they are 5. Not being sarcastic at all, you need a good expert who can make the jury comfortable and talk to them on a lay person's level. Most average jurors are not going to know about DNA beyond the basics.

I'm good with the single source DNA 5+ octillion odds of belonging to BK on the knife sheath snap found under one of the victims.

MOO

Amen! There is no, no way he can get around this. It's a tower of evidence. I'd want to know if the shoeprint at the scene is his size; confirm the ka-bar knife purchase online; and get confirmation the car was bleached. I've wondered from day 1 if he acted alone, have always thought probably. But there was that claim way back when that the first thing he asked when arrested was whether he was the only one arrested. I'll watch the trial just to 1) get info on the Jack in the Box order to see if BK ordered it, I've always wondered, and 2) confirm nobody else involved. Even if someone were, the list with the shoeprint, knife, bleaching still stands for me. Personally, I don't care if they send BK fan club members door to door to try to taint the jury pool. I don't care if AT takes out prejudicial billboards. I don't care if AT starts wearing tee shirts with suggestive messages about BK's innocence to court on a daily basis. Seriously, I couldn't care less. There's no way JMO he can get past the DNA. The next thing I'm expecting to be really riveted by with this case is his almost certain appeal of the firing squad as cruel and unusual punishment. I'm unfortunately serious.

 

[Boxer]

@Megnut, we have not heard much from BK's family. Ted Bundy's family has several stories about him as a child, fixated on knives, doing some strange things. I wonder if someone will write a book about BK, and we will learn more about his childhood.

Seems like his family are good people. Dont seem to want make anything harder.
So sorry eapecially for his dad, the pride he had talking to the Indiana policeman saying his son was a phd student was pretty sad.

 

[Justice101]

Amen! There is no, no way he can get around this. It's a tower of evidence. I'd want to know if the shoeprint at the scene is his size; confirm the ka-bar knife purchase online; and get confirmation the car was bleached. I've wondered from day 1 if he acted alone, have always thought probably. But there was that claim way back when that the first thing he asked when arrested was whether he was the only one arrested. I'll watch the trial just to 1) get info on the Jack in the Box order to see if BK ordered it, I've always wondered, and 2) confirm nobody else involved. Even if someone were, the list with the shoeprint, knife, bleaching still stands for me. Personally, I don't care if they send BK fan club members door to door to try to taint the jury pool. I don't care if AT takes out prejudicial billboards. I don't care if AT starts wearing tee shirts with suggestive messages about BK's innocence to court on a daily basis. Seriously, I couldn't care less. There's no way JMO he can get past the DNA. The next thing I'm expecting to be really riveted by with this case is his almost certain appeal of the firing squad as cruel and unusual punishment. I'm unfortunately serious.

Agree, with no real alibi, the DNA would probably be enough alone to convict. Think of how many murderers are caught ONLY BECAUSE OF DNA left at the crime scene. No other evidence.

With the DNA evidence, white Elantra evidence and phone evidence, I think they have more than enough to convict with a reasonably unbiased and intelligent jury.

 

[Valen2]

I lost a lot of respect for AT over that survey debacle. I know that she has to do everything she can do for her client and that may not make her popular. It was the blatant mishandling of it, the poor excuses, and the outrage and her attitude with the judge that was so surprising and disappointing to see.

 

[Justice101]

I lost a lot of respect for AT over that survey debacle. I know that she has to do everything she can do for her client and that may not make her popular. It was the blatant mishandling of it, the poor excuses, and the outrage and her attitude with the judge that was so surprising and disappointing to see.

She's probably trying to make her a name for herself to market her to higher profile and RICH clients elsewhere.

Just my guess. But then again, this is a HIGH PROFILE case where any lack of agressiveness will be questinon

 

[Pyrite]

I lost a lot of respect for AT over that survey debacle. I know that she has to do everything she can do for her client and that may not make her popular. It was the blatant mishandling of it, the poor excuses, and the outrage and her attitude with the judge that was so surprising and disappointing to see.

I listen to Crime talk with Scott Reisch and also children of darkness and light with Lori Hellis, both defense lawyers. Scott at least thinks BK will never get past the knife sheath dna.

They both said a survey is the normal way to determine if a trial needs moved. As long as everything in the survey is out in the public already, there really is nothing wrong with what AT did. Scott thinks it possible the judge and prosecutor have never tried a case with so much publicity where a survey is needed to decide on a venue change.

MOO

 

[Sundog]

They both said a survey is the normal way to determine if a trial needs moved. As long as everything in the survey is out in the public already, there really is nothing wrong with what AT did. Scott thinks it possible the judge and prosecutor have never tried a case with so much publicity where a survey is needed to decide on a venue change.

MOO

<snipped for focus>

If that's the case, then there is no reason to villify AT, she is just doing her job and staying focused on the big picture. She may be the more experienced attorney in this case, including the judge. I guess we'll see.
She certainly needed to make her voice heard on the issue of stopping the survey, etc. so that it is on record in case needed as one of the grounds for appeal. She can't cower because a judge is displeased with her actions and remarks, she has to stay focused on the big picture which, IMO, is the death penalty possibility and doing everything she can to ensure that her client isn't sentenced to death in Idaho.

 

[Cool Cats]

I listen to Crime talk with Scott Reisch and also children of darkness and light with Lori Hellis, both defense lawyers. Scott at least thinks BK will never get past the knife sheath dna.

They both said a survey is the normal way to determine if a trial needs moved. As long as everything in the survey is out in the public already, there really is nothing wrong with what AT did. Scott thinks it possible the judge and prosecutor have never tried a case with so much publicity where a survey is needed to decide on a venue change.

MOO

Doing the survey is not the problem. Doing it inappropriately is the problem. There are several ways AT was inappropriate so the judge had to stop it.

Judge in U of I murder case rebukes Bryan Kohberger defense team for juror phone survey - East Idaho News

MOSCOW (Idaho Statesman) — The judge in the University of Idaho student murder case admonished Bryan Kohberger’s attorney at a hearing Thursday over the defense’s survey of potential jurors that prosecutors argued likely defied the court’s gag order, and for alleging he violated her client’s...

www.eastidahonews.com

 

[Sleuth2010]

I lost a lot of respect for AT over that survey debacle. I know that she has to do everything she can do for her client and that may not make her popular. It was the blatant mishandling of it, the poor excuses, and the outrage and her attitude with the judge that was so surprising and disappointing to see.

" It was the blatant mishandling of it, the poor excuses, and the outrage and her attitude with the judge that was so surprising and disappointing to see."

Exactly. Her client is beyond guilty. The experts and teams in law enforcement got their killer. The murderer, is getting and has coming, exactly what he earned.


As for " counsel," being professional is one thing, maturity and attitude is another...

Attitude is Everything.
-
imo moo jmo

 

[katydid23]

I wonder what the motive was for this crime. I really thought that would've been made public long ago. Random slaying just doesn't feel right.

Sometimes the 'motive' is as simple as someone wanting to kill others for the experience of it. JMO