50/60 year old Amnesia Victim Savannah, GA Thread #5

[believe09]

Hey, believe! Please clear out your pm box!

tia,

Hoppy

done...

 

[believe09]

Thanks for the quick reply Believe. Reading your words helps me remember reading some of the discussion on it before.. .phew... thought I was losing it.. well, maybe I am, lol... but I digress!

Those are interesting points to ponder, the time necessary to do this damage or that, and if could be pinpointed to a bit of accuracy (had better notice of the situation been documented in the first place) would have great impact on ruling out (and in) certain possibilities, I think. Ugh and splat.

Thanks again Believe for helping me not go thru that rollercoaster ride longer than was necessary.

:blowkiss::blowkiss: YW; no problem. I loved that discussion, BTW-there was some cool poster who checked in with some visions specialists..IIRC the poster was in England...but the specialist indicated that the kind of cataracts he had would have to have been accelerated by long term drug abuse or alcoholism-NEITHER applies to BK, so the other option was long term exposure to the outdoors...not 19 or less hours outside of the Burger King.

FWIW, I had another spirited discussion with our BK regarding this issue-he said the doctors who restored his vision said that it was possible to form traumatic cataracts that quickly-as usual, clear as mud lol!!!

 

[believe09]

Regarding the study of BK's speaking pattern, I am curious about something. This might sound stupid but...

It is said that BK's speach pattern seems to the point that he's well educated? Do all of you feel that it's possible that he could be a high school graduate (or non graduate) who grew up in a home with the influence of proper grammar/speaking? (I am sure that many of us have come in contact with a person with virtually no formal education who could speak so well we would have never known?)

Also, the other speech patterns that could indicate where he is from. My mom is from NYC, aside from visiting there, my siblings and I all say things that could be considered "New Yorker" and we lived on the border of Canada, so some of our speach patterns could sound a little "Canadian". Is it possible that some of BK's inflection, tone, etc... could come from his upbringing and his parents, versus actually living in a certain place?

I don't say things well, but does anyone think that BK's memories of Denver are more consequential than the way he speaks? (As far as narrowing anything down?)

Thank you all for doing what you are and mods, if my question is in the wrong place, please move it. (I still get confused about the areas in which I am supposed to post certain things... sorry!):blowkiss:

I so get this point-My dad was from Brooklyn and people frequently think I grew up in NY, although I am dyed in the wool "Pahk-the-cahr-in-Hahhvaadd-yaahdd" NE. My dad would not permit the "Boston" accent in our home, lol.

BK is very well spoken and learn-ed in the true sense of the word...but...I wonder if he is well-read vs very highly educated, which is not to say that he does not have a degree of some kind. He seems to have a broad knowledge of language, but in an old world sense.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

I so get this point-My dad was from Brooklyn and people frequently think I grew up in NY, although I am dyed in the wool "Pahk-the-cahr-in-Hahhvaadd-yaahdd" NE. My dad would not permit the "Boston" accent in our home, lol.

BK is very well spoken and learn-ed in the true sense of the word...but...I wonder if he is well-read vs very highly educated, which is not to say that he does not have a degree of some kind. He seems to have a broad knowledge of language, but in an old world sense.

Thank you believe09, my post was as "clear as mud". I am not one to say whether or not a person is well read vs highly educated but I have encountered many people who would appear to be highly educated and their only influence has been in the home.

Do you use a "warsh cloth" or eat "ahrenges"? J/K... I've always been rather impressed by the east coast, my "Don" is my "Dawn" and my "Dawn" is my "Don". While I had a "dad" and not a "dahd", I always wondered about the "Queen's English" as far as other people are concerned.

Okay, the long A and the "Queen's English" are off topic, but since I ran out of ideas on the "Powell connection"... linguistics became an issue for me. Just trying to narrow down where I can concentrate.

Thanks for the input! :blowkiss:

 

[bluestarzz]

this might seem really bizarre, has anyone ever thought he could have been originally a "stolen child?", and have no other family other than parents.
blue

 

[believe09]

this might seem really bizarre, has anyone ever thought he could have been originally a "stolen child?", and have no other family other than parents.
blue

Not bizarre at all bluestarzz-this has been hashed a little and a child who was abducted 50 years ago was submitted, IIRC. At the minimum, he may have been an orphan or "in the system" although he remembers brothers...

 

[believe09]

Thank you believe09, my post was as "clear as mud". I am not one to say whether or not a person is well read vs highly educated but I have encountered many people who would appear to be highly educated and their only influence has been in the home.

Do you use a "warsh cloth" or eat "ahrenges"? J/K... I've always been rather impressed by the east coast, my "Don" is my "Dawn" and my "Dawn" is my "Don". While I had a "dad" and not a "dahd", I always wondered about the "Queen's English" as far as other people are concerned.

Okay, the long A and the "Queen's English" are off topic, but since I ran out of ideas on the "Powell connection"... linguistics became an issue for me. Just trying to narrow down where I can concentrate.

Thanks for the input! :blowkiss:

Lol...I have an "Ahnt" vs an "Ant" which most people use to peg my location pretty quick...I am a "soda" vs "pop", "submarine sandwich" vs "grinder" and "tomaytoe" vs "tomahtoe" although I do say "ahnvelope" vs "envelope"....Damn those Brahmins.

 

[carolwood]

Forgive me for asking what may be silly sounding and perhaps already discussed... something struck me as I read dreamweaver's latest post in the theories thread.

Was Benjaman found with his eyes open? I went back to the first discussion thread and see it noted that he was found shortly before 7 a.m. August 31, 2004 (which would have been a Tuesday morning, I believe). According to: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=623&month=8&year=2004&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1 the sun rose at 6:59 a.m. in Savannah that morning.

Regarding the cataracts and damage to his eyes... this wouldn't have allowed time for the intense amount of damage that he suffered.

what am I missing or misconstruing? Was he there, laying naked beside the dumpster, the entire day before (Monday) and absolutely no one caught a glimpse of him?!! Eyes open or not, I would think an entire day or at least hours of direct, intense sun exposure would have been needed to do damage... but he was found before sunrise. (I'm thinking I've obviously missed or forgotten lengthy discussion on this point.)

I am glad you bring this up, I just noticed something, I have to comment about. I am looking at the photo of Ben standing next to the dumpster at Burger King. Behind the dumpster is a wall where there is a gap that can be seen.
On the right side of the dumpster, looks as though there is a wall and the dumpster is butted right next to it.
The only open I see, looking at the pic is the left side where Ben is standing (AND WHERE HE MUST HAVE BEEN FOUND) and the front of the dumpster.
Most Burger Kings are set up this same standard way, with the dumpster to the side(left or right) and to the very back of the lot(lots are small, probably less that 210 x 210 which is an acre, and the lot is wide open, except for the BK building. Usually employees are asked to park in the back or farther away so patrons can park in the closer spots.
Burger King employees usually go to work at around 3 -5 am if they serve breakfast which most do. And if they are serving breakfast, they start around 5:30 am. People will be going to the drive thru. People leaving driving around the building to get out the parking lot.
HOW DID THEY(THINKING PROBABLY 4 EMPLOYEES) NOT SEE BENJAMAN? HOW DID PATRONS NOT SEE BENJAMAN? UNTIL 7 AM?
JUST DOESN'T ADD UP, UNLESS HE WAS DUMPED ABOUT THAT TIME?

 

[dreamweaver]

I am glad you bring this up, I just noticed something, I have to comment about. I am looking at the photo of Ben standing next to the dumpster at Burger King. Behind the dumpster is a wall where there is a gap that can be seen.
On the right side of the dumpster, looks as though there is a wall and the dumpster is butted right next to it.
The only open I see, looking at the pic is the left side where Ben is standing (AND WHERE HE MUST HAVE BEEN FOUND) and the front of the dumpster.
Most Burger Kings are set up this same standard way, with the dumpster to the side(left or right) and to the very back of the lot(lots are small, probably less that 210 x 210 which is an acre, and the lot is wide open, except for the BK building. Usually employees are asked to park in the back or farther away so patrons can park in the closer spots.
Burger King employees usually go to work at around 3 -5 am if they serve breakfast which most do. And if they are serving breakfast, they start around 5:30 am. People will be going to the drive thru. People leaving driving around the building to get out the parking lot.
HOW DID THEY(THINKING PROBABLY 4 EMPLOYEES) NOT SEE BENJAMAN? HOW DID PATRONS NOT SEE BENJAMAN? UNTIL 7 AM?
JUST DOESN'T ADD UP, UNLESS HE WAS DUMPED ABOUT THAT TIME?

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carolwood:
I agree about the dumpster.
It is over 6 ft tall.
The employee did see BK, as we know, first thing in the morning.

I think BK was mugged, abducted, beaten taken Sun. night,
or very early Mon. morning, left out somewhere the sun got to his eyes
and the fire ants got to him and then later, early Tues. morning, put next to the dumpster. Maybe even the attackers thought they would put him in the dumpster, but it was too high for them.
Fire ants bites not only cause sores, but cause sweating.
http://www.fireant.net/Bites/

 

[dreamweaver]

Does anyone have copies of the 7 parts of YouTube videos from the Dr. Phil show? They are no longer available. I emailed EyesForLies and she seemed interested in taking a look at them to see what might be gained. Obviously, we are not looking for lies but subconscious memories. Let me know if you think this is not a good avenue to pursue.

If anyone has saved these or knows where to find them, and thinks it is a good idea, please forward to Eyes at her blog EyesForLies. Thanks.

PS I did forward to her the link to the short news clip from approx. 3 years after he was found.

----------------------------------------------------------
RhythmicSun:
I like EyesforLies too.
I could not find the video from Dr Phil show.
But, it is for sale through Dr Phil for $29.95.
Seems a tad high.

http://www.myspace.com/127099176
My space has him speaking for over a minute.

 

[snowme]

Regarding his speech/accent etc. I get what you (Boyz Mum & Believe) are saying. I know many people who have certain phrases or pronunciations within their normal, everyday speaking that defy their regional environment but rather it comes from older family who brought it with them from a previous area of living and it's been carried over in the next generation.

I wonder how quickly we pick up things like that or drop things like that. Believe, since you've spoken with him, has it ever been asked or said that Benjaman sounds different than the people he's around now... or "talks funny" by comparison? I wonder if in the beginning people who were getting to know him felt he was a visitor to the area and not local due to his way of speaking or choice of word here or there.

After having seen/heard him on Dr. Phil and the one snippet video prior to that - and in conjuction with other things read here - I've always had the impression that he was a very intelligent, perhaps even well-read, hard working average joe. I think people who are highly intelligent give themselves away to that fact within their speech without necessarily intending to. This doesn't mean I don't think he's had an extensive education but I just don't get that vibe.

Hi bluestarzz... Believe was right we did discuss that idea. The little boy she was trying to think of was Andy Sims. If you search the forum you should come up with links to articles on him and photos, etc. I'm not sure off the top of my head how long ago he was brought up to find him faster for you.

 

[snowme]

I've had my share of fire ant bites. In fact, at this moment I've still got the scarring marks left by 4 bites I recieved approx. 3 mos. ago. They are wicked! Eventually they will vanish (at least for me) but they definitely get red around the bite spot, and almost always raise and fill with pus. The venom is strong stuff.

I can't imagine what it would be like to lay near or in a fire ant "nest" or mound and be bitten over and over. At least I don't like imagining it.

----------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
carolwood:
I agree about the dumpster.
It is over 6 ft tall.
The employee did see BK, as we know, first thing in the morning.

I think BK was mugged, abducted, beaten taken Sun. night,
or very early Mon. morning, left out somewhere the sun got to his eyes
and the fire ants got to him and then later, early Tues. morning, put next to the dumpster. Maybe even the attackers thought they would put him in the dumpster, but it was too high for them.
Fire ants bites not only cause sores, but cause sweating.
http://www.fireant.net/Bites/

 

[carolwood]

----------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------
carolwood:
I agree about the dumpster.
It is over 6 ft tall.
The employee did see BK, as we know, first thing in the morning.

I think BK was mugged, abducted, beaten taken Sun. night,
or very early Mon. morning, left out somewhere the sun got to his eyes
and the fire ants got to him and then later, early Tues. morning, put next to the dumpster. Maybe even the attackers thought they would put him in the dumpster, but it was too high for them.
Fire ants bites not only cause sores, but cause sweating.
http://www.fireant.net/Bites/

I have to agree with the statement of being dumped around the time he was found by the employee/s.

 

[Julessleuther]

I agree with you Boyz_Mum. My parents were from Long Island (NY). I didn't live there, but did go back every summer for 2-3 weeks to stay with my grandparents. At the end of those three weeks, between having heard my parents accents, and the accents of the people around me, I would go back home speaking Laaaawng Islandish. I do believe that we can pick up mannerisms and speech from our friends/family and not just our present location.

Regarding the study of BK's speaking pattern, I am curious about something. This might sound stupid but...

It is said that BK's speach pattern seems to the point that he's well educated? Do all of you feel that it's possible that he could be a high school graduate (or non graduate) who grew up in a home with the influence of proper grammar/speaking? (I am sure that many of us have come in contact with a person with virtually no formal education who could speak so well we would have never known?)

Also, the other speech patterns that could indicate where he is from. My mom is from NYC, aside from visiting there, my siblings and I all say things that could be considered "New Yorker" and we lived on the border of Canada, so some of our speach patterns could sound a little "Canadian". Is it possible that some of BK's inflection, tone, etc... could come from his upbringing and his parents, versus actually living in a certain place?

I don't say things well, but does anyone think that BK's memories of Denver are more consequential than the way he speaks? (As far as narrowing anything down?)

Thank you all for doing what you are and mods, if my question is in the wrong place, please move it. (I still get confused about the areas in which I am supposed to post certain things... sorry!):blowkiss:

 

[snowme]

Ok, this just wouldn't get out of my head - I had to get up from bed and ask.

Carol, I've missed this photo .. Ben next to the dumpster at Burger King. Where is this photo? I looked in the Photos of Ben thread but no go.

Also, I'm sure it's been discussed ... a fast food places dumpster is emptied quite frequently, is it not? As well as the grease container that often sits right beside it (or is that a more recent thing?). He would have certainly been seen had the garbage been picked up so depending on the pickup schedule for that dumpster (day and time) there is only so much time that he could have been there.

Say the dumpster is emptied daily at 9 a.m. that would mean he could not have been there before 9 a.m. Monday the 30th. So it limits at least the range of time for Benjaman to find himself at the location, however it came to be.

I know lately I'm definitely not hitting on all cylinders and I'm sure I'm late to the party in finding that such a "wow" thing... but in a small way it is a wow thing because tightening a timeframe can eliminate some possible theories that might not otherwise be eliminated.

Back to bed with me before I go full circle! If I didn't make sense, just pat me on the head and tell me "there, there, get some rest", LOL.

I am glad you bring this up, I just noticed something, I have to comment about. I am looking at the photo of Ben standing next to the dumpster at Burger King. Behind the dumpster is a wall where there is a gap that can be seen.
On the right side of the dumpster, looks as though there is a wall and the dumpster is butted right next to it.
The only open I see, looking at the pic is the left side where Ben is standing (AND WHERE HE MUST HAVE BEEN FOUND) and the front of the dumpster.
Most Burger Kings are set up this same standard way, with the dumpster to the side(left or right) and to the very back of the lot(lots are small, probably less that 210 x 210 which is an acre, and the lot is wide open, except for the BK building. Usually employees are asked to park in the back or farther away so patrons can park in the closer spots.
Burger King employees usually go to work at around 3 -5 am if they serve breakfast which most do. And if they are serving breakfast, they start around 5:30 am. People will be going to the drive thru. People leaving driving around the building to get out the parking lot.
HOW DID THEY(THINKING PROBABLY 4 EMPLOYEES) NOT SEE BENJAMAN? HOW DID PATRONS NOT SEE BENJAMAN? UNTIL 7 AM?
JUST DOESN'T ADD UP, UNLESS HE WAS DUMPED ABOUT THAT TIME?

 

[Roselvr]

Thank you believe09, my post was as "clear as mud". I am not one to say whether or not a person is well read vs highly educated but I have encountered many people who would appear to be highly educated and their only influence has been in the home.

Do you use a "warsh cloth" or eat "ahrenges"? J/K... I've always been rather impressed by the east coast, my "Don" is my "Dawn" and my "Dawn" is my "Don". While I had a "dad" and not a "dahd", I always wondered about the "Queen's English" as far as other people are concerned.

Okay, the long A and the "Queen's English" are off topic, but since I ran out of ideas on the "Powell connection"... linguistics became an issue for me. Just trying to narrow down where I can concentrate.

Thanks for the input! :blowkiss:

Just woke up but I'm confused... I'm in NJ, east coast, everything you posted is not true of me.. Don is Don, Dawn is Dawn.

Ok, this just wouldn't get out of my head - I had to get up from bed and ask.

Carol, I've missed this photo .. Ben next to the dumpster at Burger King. Where is this photo? I looked in the Photos of Ben thread but no go.

I have it. I saved it from one of the older threads, Gina posted part of the National Enquirer article. I contacted her, she sent me everything. I'm going to be stitching the article back together then will add the pics to the photo thread and make my "Ben" photo album public so that all photos/fliers of him will be in one spot.

I'll have time today to work on this. I've been using 2 computers to save stuff, yesterday I went through both to get them both the same, Today will be work on his stuff.

 

[believe09]

Regarding Mr. Kyle's speech pattern now-I don't think that he has much of a drawl that has crept in. Unlike NY, NJ, New England, he does not speak at a fast clipped rate...he speaks methodically.

I had a loved one who had a trach and a lot of throat surgery at varying times-Mr. Kyle has the same raspieness to me of someone who has polyps, or scar tissue or something similar. Not a smoker's voice. Hard to describe by writing.

 

[Boyz_Mum]

Regarding Mr. Kyle's speech pattern now-I don't think that he has much of a drawl that has crept in. Unlike NY, NJ, New England, he does not speak at a fast clipped rate...he speaks methodically.

I had a loved one who had a trach and a lot of throat surgery at varying times-Mr. Kyle has the same raspieness to me of someone who has polyps, or scar tissue or something similar. Not a smoker's voice. Hard to describe by writing.

Do you know if Mr Kyle has his tonsils? (If he has them, do they show signs of being scarred- if he knows?) Not that frequent throat infections or a lack of tonsils would identify him, I am just wondering if the raspiness you speak of could be tonsil related?

In regards to his speach, I guess I was more curious whether it's a good indicator of his past life as far as the linguistics are concerned. So many variables confuse me~ thanks everyone for being patient with my questions!

 

[carolwood]

Ok, this just wouldn't get out of my head - I had to get up from bed and ask.

Carol, I've missed this photo .. Ben next to the dumpster at Burger King. Where is this photo? I looked in the Photos of Ben thread but no go.

Also, I'm sure it's been discussed ... a fast food places dumpster is emptied quite frequently, is it not? As well as the grease container that often sits right beside it (or is that a more recent thing?). He would have certainly been seen had the garbage been picked up so depending on the pickup schedule for that dumpster (day and time) there is only so much time that he could have been there.

Say the dumpster is emptied daily at 9 a.m. that would mean he could not have been there before 9 a.m. Monday the 30th. So it limits at least the range of time for Benjaman to find himself at the location, however it came to be.

I know lately I'm definitely not hitting on all cylinders and I'm sure I'm late to the party in finding that such a "wow" thing... but in a small way it is a wow thing because tightening a timeframe can eliminate some possible theories that might not otherwise be eliminated.

Back to bed with me before I go full circle! If I didn't make sense, just pat me on the head and tell me "there, there, get some rest", LOL.

Roselvr has the photo on here picasa account. It was the one from the National E article, I think posted by Gina, and is somewhere in the threads. As Roselvr said, she will post this today.

Yes, I would think the dumpsters are dumped quite often, probably 3-4 times a week, maybe.(I can find this out, have a friend, shift mgr at mcd's)

Scenario I see. Burger King serves breakfast starting at 5 am. Employees get there at 3 am. (dumpster to the right corner of lot, wall in the back of it, wall on right side of it as the pic shows)
The nite before, Burger King closes at 12 am, employees dumping the trash at 12:30 am or so, no Ben. By 12:45 am, nite employees leave. no Ben.
Morning shift returns at 3 am, parking near dumpster but cannot block the dumpster area, no Ben.
(employees are asked, at any place they work to park fartherest away, so patrons get the good spots, and BK parking lots aren't very big to start, well the olders BK's anyway, the newer ones are quite a bit larger, and I am thinking since this one is closed, it was probably a old location, with a smaller lot)
Morning crew begins opening the boxes for the breakfast crowd, which starts at 5 am.(pile the boxes, at the back door, which will be put in the dumpster after the 5 - 7 am rush of patrons, going throught the drive thru and coming in to eat.
(if Ben would of been there, someone would have noticed him, especially going throught the drive thru)
Ben is discovered around 7 am, assuming this is the time 911 got the call, not time he was picked up and taken to the hospital.
(I was a volunteer fire fighter and first responder in training, when 911 gets the call, this is the document time. ambulance will have the time they picked him up, and LE will have a time they got on scene, it's how it was done when I was in it in the late 90's and I was in a rural area, fire dept. and first responders were usually always at the scene first(we were right in the area), LE and Ambulance usually arriving at the same time coming from 15 - 20 miles away.)
Ben is discovered at the time employee dumps the trash in the dumpster at 7 am, 911 call made.
My point, looking at the pic, you can see he was dumped on the left side of the dumpster in the same area which Ben is standing, not in the back(report says on the side, is what I have read) and I don't think there was room on the right side because of the fence. Patrons especially going through the drive thru window, would have seen him, especially naked, and would have reported it.
I know if it would have been me who would have seen this, I would call 911, and report a naked man by the dumpster, then when I pulled up to get the food would have made the employee at the window aware of it also, and told her I had called 911. (I also would have got out the vehicle and checked the person for a pulse, but this is what I have been trained to do. But as a average joe, i would have done the 911 call and let the employees know what I saw by the dumpster)
I just can't see that someone would not have done anything if they would have saw him there. You have to figure probably 100 or so people will go through the parking lot on a typical morning and have to see the dumpster, it is not completely closed in, as some are in some places.
Another thought, would be someone saw him while going to the drive thru, and reported to the employee, because they had no cell phone to call 911 themselves, and employee at pick up window did nothing about it. I find this a little unbelievable, being he was naked.

SNOWME, I FOUND THE PHOTO

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/ginad42/BKEnquirer.jpg

 

[carolwood]

Looking at the photo, it doesn't seem that the dumpster is in a enclosed area. The truck that would come to dump it, would pick it up from the front, you can see where the arms would slide in, directly behind Ben.