A fresh look at all test results

[Irish_Eyes]

Mrs Peel, I don't think he'll question the ID of the body...only that of the single hair in KC's trunk...and mDNA, unlike a full DNA profile is only passed through the mother, therefore Caylee's father made no contribution to her mDNA...

 

[Rumpole]

Originally Posted by Emma Peel
Hercule - Thanks for your hopeful thoughts on my old post!

I'll just note that my post was made just 5-6 hours before they found Caylee's remains. (I simply could not sleep that night - fretting about the lack of forensics, thinking of poor Caylee, wondering if she'd ever be found, pleading with the universe for more evidence - still, I found posting my concerns not cathartic whatsoever.) BUT ... 5 hours later...I woke up to such sweet relief!

Since that day (12/11), I've felt somewhat better regarding the available forensics and how they might indeed support the argument that Caylee's body was in Casey's car, before it was in the woods. (Hey, hasn't everyone felt better?!!)

I still worry that there is but one hair. But now, it's more difficult to say that the one death-banded hair in the car, and related decomp, could have come from anyone other than our poor dead Caylee.

And, I agree, much more exciting science to come! Can hardly wait for more reports to be released!




____________________________


Please allow me to step in, Emma Peel, just as I would do for myself as Mrs. Peel, hahahahha, in a polite, but firm way, even though I do not know how to put two different poster's quotes together. :crazy: Allowed? Merci, madame.

Monsieur Poirot, je vous ne connait pas. Peut-etre vous cherchez une autre dame? Mme. Emma a un avatar tres bon et elle a beaucoup de savoir d'affaire et science. Moi? Je suis complete et simple fou, n'est-ce pas? Les images blanc et noire. Mais je suis aussi une professeure de belle-lettres, en Anglais, epoque medieval. Frigtarde, sans doute. La difference enorme. Alors. Bien!

Qu'est que c'est nous le pouvions ici avec les nommes similaires?

Cheers.

A bit rusty, non? Aidez-moi les Canadiens et Francophiles!

J'ai pris des Français de lycée pendant deux années mais il y a quarante-trois ans ! Cela confirme que je suis assez vieux pour me rappeler les vengeurs. (Comme beaucoup d'adolescents je devrais admettre à un niveau de convoitise pour la belle Diana Rigg. J'ai vu qu'elle a interviewé récemment et la trouve toujours attirante. Naturellement nous tous les deux avons vieilli légèrement et mes critères pour l'attraction ont mûri). J'ai passé à Français les deux années mais les langues n'étaient pas mon forte, et tellement alors j'ai suivi des options de la science par le lycée et l'université. J'apporte une quantité limitée d'expérience en chemie analytique à ce groupe de discussion.

 

[Rumpole]

mDNA is quite accurate, and it would be very hard for Baez to dispute the mDNA results....but I can give you a good guess what his defense will be on this line of inquiry...first a little background on mDNA for those who don't know much about it...I've studied it quite a bit because it can be a useful genealogical tool....I however am not a scientist so bear with my layman's explanation...mDNA sequences are expressed on the X chromosome...which means we all get it from our mothers as we are either girls (XX) or boys (XY)...what scientists have found is that mDNA mutations are rare events that tend to occur many generations apart...so in all likelihood, Caylee and Casey have the exact same mDNA, as would Cindy....as would Shirley Plesea, Cindy's mother...you get where I'm going with this?? Baez can argue that hair belonged to any of them...LE maintains that the deathband indicates it can only belong to Caylee as she is the only one of them who is deceased...then they will try to argue there is no deathband, or something...Lee too would have the same mDNA....yet the report indicates the hair could only have come from Casey or Caylee...Baez will use that info to question the credibility of the professional analysis...

However if it is accepted that the band confirms the hair is from a dead person, then there is only one posibility. We only have one dead KC relative.

 

[Rumpole]

As if this case wasn't difficult enough to follow...LOL.

Also, let's not forget, we have not seen an entomological report or analysis of the basketball-size stain.

Yes I am raring to go on the flies and maggots (There is a thread already). Also must be mountains of forensics from the remains site.
Bring it on!
Vive la France (Belgium actually)

 

[eddeva]

Yes I am raring to go on the flies and maggots (There is a thread already). Also must be mountains of forensics from the remains site.
Bring it on!
Vive la France (Belgium actually)

i was just reading that thread. this will save you having to find it:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69646&highlight=forensic+entomology

 

[sometimer]

Good points.
Do you think that placing the body in sealed double plastic bags after 2.6 days would constitute removing it from the trunk as far as decomposition products released into the trunk was concerned? Even though the sealed bags/body ensemble was returned to the trunk?

The answer would require more testing from the body farm to see how thoroughly a body would need to be contained to stop the escape of any gasses. Could a trash bag or even two be enough? Is it possible to seal it enough? Possibly?

 

[Rumpole]

The answer would require more testing from the body farm to see how thoroughly a body would need to be contained to stop the escape of any gasses. Could a trash bag or even two be enough? Is it possible to seal it enough? Possibly?

A clue from my own recent experience:
A ham bone and assorted ham fat trimmings placed in a domestic black garbage bag is a good smelly decomposing human body analogue!
I set this up for myself last week! I'd like to claim it represented extreme dedication to the WS quest, but it was in fact a stupid mistake on my part. When first encountered, after 4 or 5 days, the pong was staggering!! However, no fluids had leaked out. Tying the bag firmly shut and airing out the shed where it was situated did remove the smell, not that I tried very hard to take deep breath anywhere near it or even get closer than I had to. Untying the bag 2 days later to add more garbage was an adventure in itself. I don't think a full description of the event would get past the Mods.
The point is, the decomposing item and (I suspect) any fluids are the seat of the unpleasantness. A sealed garbage bag is sufficient to contain the unpleasantness for at least a week that I can atest to, and probably a bit longer.
I don't claim this to be proof or a scientific test at all, but it sure as hell convinced me.

 

[The World According]

I've been thinking about how all of her friends say she was a wonderful, doting mother and then recently she changed and they say things like "This is not the KC I knew!". Several of them. I know that Lee, GA, Amy and others have mentioned that Fusion was notorious locally for drugs (allegedly, and to be fair, most clubs are). I just read up on the drug Ecstacy and it was the epitome of KC , her behaviors. Does anyone know anything about this? I know they took a hair sample from her to compare the DNA to the hairs found in the trunk. Long term drug use can show up in a persons hair, even if it is was no longer in her blood or urine. Can one of the lawyers help me know if indeed the State had the right to test for drugs and if indeed it is in any of the documents and I missed it? Check this out: did any of these show up in her texts?

Adam, E, Roll, X, XTC.

Ecstasy



Users report that Ecstasy produces intensely pleasurable effects – including an enhanced sense of self-confidence and energy. Effects include feelings of peacefulness, acceptance and empathy. Users say they experience feelings of closeness with others and a desire to touch others., a loss of inhibitions, , as well as seizures, are also possible. (In George's FBI interview he claims that Jesse had to rush KC to the hospital because she was having a seizure and he found that odd because KC does not have any such problem!)

After-effects can include sleep problems, anxiety and depression.

Repeated use of Ecstasy ultimately may damage the cells that produce serotonin, which has an important role in the regulation of mood, appetite, pain, learning and memory.

The bed hoping, the pole dancing, knowing she will be photographed and her family and friends will see the photos the next day on the Internet, the increased risk in stealing from close friends and family, knowing she is in banks and stores being photographed....
I believe she got hooked on this stuff. LE say that her sleep patterns show she often slept only three hours a night, that is not normal! Does anyone else think so or know anything about this drug?

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

For me, from the get go, the LIBS data sealed the deal. IIRC, the greater part of "body fluids" released during the initial phases of decomp consists of the compounds tested for....like calcium, sodium, etc. The fact that the concentrations of these types of things found in the carpet from Casey's car vs control carpet samples was so great, there's not much else in my mind that would cause that other than human decomp. JMO

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

Sorry for clipping this from your post, The World According.....CLIPPED FROM POST #68....

The bed hoping, the pole dancing, knowing she will be photographed and her family and friends will see the photos the next day on the Internet, the increased risk in stealing from close friends and family, knowing she is in banks and stores being photographed....
I believe she got hooked on this stuff. LE say that her sleep patterns show she often slept only three hours a night, that is not normal! Does anyone else think so or know anything about this drug?
*****************************************************************************************************************
I agree, but I just needed to add that the operative word here is "knowing"....I don't believe she even gave a thought about what she was doing, let alone what others might think...it was "all about Casey"...total disregard for everyone and total disrespect for her daughter who was triple bagged thrown in the woods like garbage.

I don't believe "E" is habit forming, in terms of addiction, per se. Some people just like the "enhanced" feelings it provides, so they do it continuously.
I would think something more like "speed"...not meth, though. JMO
A lot of kids KC's age started taking "ADHD" meds to give them that "get up and go" high. Was Caylee diagnosed with ADHD and mommy was taking her pills...Casey had the "parenting book" ear marked at "Tantrums".....insert flashback of Lynette on Desperate Housewives....LOL
I can almost be certain LE did toxicology on BOTH KC's and Caylee's hair....JMO

http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/ADHD.html

Has some info about abuse of these meds....

 

[MAMABEAR]

Also, we have to take into consideration that meds/drugs affect peeps different. When my back went out they put me on "Valuim". I had a reverse reaction and was wanting to "KILL" my EX. Fer real kill him. We were both lucky he was in Tx. and I was in Mo. In the hospital and throwing a huge fit, they had to quit giving it to me. They don't always call it an allergy. Never know---just sayin.

 

[eddeva]

I believe she got hooked on this stuff. LE say that her sleep patterns show she often slept only three hours a night, that is not normal!

*resp. snipped.
i don't want to start another 'is casey bipolar' debate, on the contrary i'm trying to stop one from developing.
many bipolars, while in a certain phase, need very little sleep and i'm afraid that some people will pounce on casey's ability to function w/o a normal amount of sleep and brand her bipolar thereby insulting every other bipolar on the planet.
while sleeping only 3hrs a night is not normal some people do only need 3 or 4hrs, i happen to be one of them and the last time i checked i wasn't witty, artistic or deep enough to be bipolar.

 

[chefmom]

*resp. snipped.
i don't want to start another 'is casey bipolar' debate, on the contrary i'm trying to stop one from developing.
many bipolars, while in a certain phase, need very little sleep and i'm afraid that some people will pounce on casey's ability to function w/o a normal amount of sleep and brand her bipolar thereby insulting every other bipolar on the planet.
while sleeping only 3hrs a night is not normal some people do only need 3 or 4hrs, i happen to be one of them and the last time i checked i wasn't witty, artistic or deep enough to be bipolar.

I know what you mean, Eddeva. I have always had some type of "sleep disorder", but am not bipolar, nor am I on any type of drugs. I don't even drink coffee! However, I seldom sleep more than 3 or 4 hours at a time. I may have to "rest" my eyes for 30 minutes or so every so often, but as a general rule, I go like that for a while, then I will "crash" and sleep 8 to 10 hours for about a week. Then, it's right back to the 3 to 4 hour pattern. I have been this way since I was a kid.

 

[robotdog]

I know what you mean, Eddeva. I have always had some type of "sleep disorder", but am not bipolar, nor am I on any type of drugs. I don't even drink coffee! However, I seldom sleep more than 3 or 4 hours at a time. I may have to "rest" my eyes for 30 minutes or so every so often, but as a general rule, I go like that for a while, then I will "crash" and sleep 8 to 10 hours for about a week. Then, it's right back to the 3 to 4 hour pattern. I have been this way since I was a kid.

same here

3-4 hours of sleep at a time - usually qty 1 twenty minute nap in the afternoon and thats it....... i wish i could sleep more sometimes but i cant and dont have just accepted it... every once in a great while i will get 6-7 hours a sleep at one time time (usually twice a month )

:crazy:

 

[aafromaa]

I know what you mean, Eddeva. I have always had some type of "sleep disorder", but am not bipolar, nor am I on any type of drugs. I don't even drink coffee! However, I seldom sleep more than 3 or 4 hours at a time. I may have to "rest" my eyes for 30 minutes or so every so often, but as a general rule, I go like that for a while, then I will "crash" and sleep 8 to 10 hours for about a week. Then, it's right back to the 3 to 4 hour pattern. I have been this way since I was a kid.

I've never thought too much about the 3 or 4 hours of sleep thing. I recall a time when I was in my mid-twenties where I worked 4 different jobs at a time - usually no more than 3 of them in any one day - but I also taught Sunday School, led a youth group, played on a softball team, and had an active social life during this time. I rarely got 4 hours of sleep and I don't recall ever being tired. Of course now that I'm in my 40's, I can't function or concentrate if I don't get at least 8 hours. Anyway, I just don't place too much significance on the fact that KC was getting only a few hours of sleep.

 

[shgrbkr]

Hercule - Thanks for your hopeful thoughts on my old post!

I'll just note that my post was made just 5-6 hours before they found Caylee's remains. (I simply could not sleep that night - fretting about the lack of forensics, thinking of poor Caylee, wondering if she'd ever be found, pleading with the universe for more evidence - still, I found posting my concerns not cathartic whatsoever.) BUT ... 5 hours later...I woke up to such sweet relief!

Since that day (12/11), I've felt somewhat better regarding the available forensics and how they might indeed support the argument that Caylee's body was in Casey's car, before it was in the woods. (Hey, hasn't everyone felt better?!!)

I still worry that there is but one hair. But now, it's more difficult to say that the one death-banded hair in the car, and related decomp, could have come from anyone other than our poor dead Caylee.And, I agree, much more exciting science to come! Can hardly wait for more reports to be released! :Justice:

Bolded by me....let's not forget that the mouth area was duct taped so tightly around the entire head that the tape had not floated away, thus, there must be many more hairs that tests were performed on. AND, these hairs no doubt had the root attached. There may very well be a death band on all of these hairs identical to the ONE found in KC's trunk. I suspect the toxicology report on the skull hair will be very telling, perhaps exactly what is needed to finally sink KC's ship full of holes.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

*resp. snipped.
i don't want to start another 'is casey bipolar' debate, on the contrary i'm trying to stop one from developing.
many bipolars, while in a certain phase, need very little sleep and i'm afraid that some people will pounce on casey's ability to function w/o a normal amount of sleep and brand her bipolar thereby insulting every other bipolar on the planet.
while sleeping only 3hrs a night is not normal some people do only need 3 or 4hrs, i happen to be one of them and the last time i checked i wasn't witty, artistic or deep enough to be bipolar.

Ooopps....In my Post #70.....I had "snipped" that part you quoted as mine from another posters quote (#68). IMO, I don't think THAT poster was making ANY kind of conclusion toward ANY medical/mental illness, either. There was no way that discussion would even SLIGHTLY lean toward that dreaded "bipolar discussion".
The poster was just giving their opinion of THEIR "normal" of sleep and was discussing the drug xtasy as perhaps playing a part in KC's sleep patterns....I was commenting on the Casey "knowing"/being aware of her actions part of the quote...and about the addictive/non addictive nature of xtasy....as well as, adding my opinion about other meds. But, IIRC, LE was also looking at her sleep patterns/texting times, as well. I guess what they're interested in was the amount of text messages over a given amount of time with short amounts of sleep/down times.
I'd never want to draw any similarities between KC and ANY mental illness used as an excuse for her being just plain evil.
I know first hand about being bipolar....I would NEVER insult myself or other bipolars by doing that.

AND, the moral of this babbling story is, I need to learn how to "snip and quote" a part of someones post without just doing a "copy and paste" and save us all from my confusion....:crazy:
Sorry about that, eddeva....:blowkiss: