Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #178

[Cool Cats]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant say they must rely on online donations to pay for Richard Allen’s defense experts​

“We’re trying to crowdfund to make it a fair fight,” attorney David Hennessy told 13News Tuesday.

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant say they must rely on online donations to pay for Richard Allen’s defense experts

“We’re trying to crowdfund to make it a fair fight,” attorney David Hennessy told 13News Tuesday.

www.wthr.com

In the first 24 hours, the fundraising campaign raised more than $10,000 of the $25,000 goal.
The crowdfunding effort comes after Allen’s attorneys filed court documents claiming that special judge Frances Gull has been denying their funding requests.

“All the money will go to experts. It won’t go to the attorneys, and it won’t go to Rick [Allen],” attorney David Hennessy said.

Allen’s attorneys have indicated the judge wants them to pay for expert witness expenses up front and that she will then review their reimbursement requests to determine if they will be granted.

According to the defense team, Gull has approved much less than requested.

For example, the defense team claims the judge approved $6,262 for them to consult with a firearms expert and a digital forensic expert about Delphi crime scene evidence, but they say the judge denied additional consultations with those experts as “unsupported” expenses.

 

[Oculus]

Really quite alarming when you think about it. An investigation into the brutal murders of two young girls and this is the best they can do? I hope their superiors sent them back to “detective school” to brush up on procedure. JMHO

These technically challenged people don't know the meaning (and IMPORTANCE) of the term "BACKUP".

Pathetic.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Defense states FG is denying their expert witness expenses. If I’m reading the rules correctly, allowable expenses are reimbursed, not paid in advance. That’s how it works for all public defenders. RA’s lawyers are not being singled out.

Are they following procedure and submitting to the appropriate decision-makers? Defense must fill out requests each quarter to receive reimbursement for eligible expenses. Page 11 discusses reimbursement for expert witnesses. Forms are submitted to the Commission and the 4th quarter 2023 meeting was only scheduled for yesterday.

2024 Reimbursement Request Due Dates & Commission Meeting Dates​

Quarter	Reimbursement Request Due Date	Commission Meeting Date (when the reimbursements will be approved/denied)
4th 2023	Wednesday, February 14	Wednesday, March 27
1st 2024	Wednesday, May 15	Wednesday, June 12
2nd 2024	Wednesday, August 14	Wednesday, September 18
3rd 2024	Thursday

Reimbursement Forms & Due Dates, Salary & Wage Requirements, Attorney Qualification Forms

www.in.gov

 

[girlhasnoname]

I feel a forensic pathologist is of the utmost importance for the D, and I find it unethical to reject that request in any murder case. Very odd. JMO.

I agree and find it hard to believe the Court would have denied one, do you have a link for JG denying a FP at any time during the case? It's astounding to me that the Defense did not seek one out or even talk to the ME before they published their FM narrative?? I believe they didn't make a request for one earlier or speak to the ME because it didn't support their claims in the FM.

Yet, they still pressed the Motion for Speedy Trial knowing that they aren't even close to ready, admitting they need more time now. Oct R&B - Judge, we're ready, don't disqualify us, grant us a speedy trial, let's Go.

March R&B - Judge, this case is so 'voluminous' we need more time, people and $$$$, let's Stop.

It's just another example of the incompetent representation by R&B.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant say they must rely on online donations to pay for Richard Allen’s defense experts​

“We’re trying to crowdfund to make it a fair fight,” attorney David Hennessy told 13News Tuesday.

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant say they must rely on online donations to pay for Richard Allen’s defense experts

“We’re trying to crowdfund to make it a fair fight,” attorney David Hennessy told 13News Tuesday.

www.wthr.com

In the first 24 hours, the fundraising campaign raised more than $10,000 of the $25,000 goal.
The crowdfunding effort comes after Allen’s attorneys filed court documents claiming that special judge Frances Gull has been denying their funding requests.

“All the money will go to experts. It won’t go to the attorneys, and it won’t go to Rick [Allen],” attorney David Hennessy said.

Allen’s attorneys have indicated the judge wants them to pay for expert witness expenses up front and that she will then review their reimbursement requests to determine if they will be granted.

According to the defense team, Gull has approved much less than requested.

For example, the defense team claims the judge approved $6,262 for them to consult with a firearms expert and a digital forensic expert about Delphi crime scene evidence, but they say the judge denied additional consultations with those experts as “unsupported” expenses.

This Defense 'word plays' everything. JG denied our request for experts, yet here they've approved $6K for one. That's quite a bit, maybe they're scouting for the ones who will say what they want to hear. Those would be much more expensive if they're going to put their name and reputation on the line.

The Defense does not get an unlimited budget for experts in any State or in any Case. They work within a budget. I still want to see receipts for what they've spent so far and to whom and what it was paid for. Would be interesting to me to see a factual accounting of it, rather than just taking the words of R&B.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Defense states FG is denying their expert witness expenses. If I’m reading the rules correctly, allowable expenses are reimbursed, not paid in advance. That’s how it works for all public defenders. RA’s lawyers are not being singled out.

Are they following procedure and submitting to the appropriate decision-makers? Defense must fill out requests each quarter to receive reimbursement for eligible expenses. Page 11 discusses reimbursement for expert witnesses. Forms are submitted to the Commission and the 4th quarter 2023 meeting was only scheduled for yesterday.

2024 Reimbursement Request Due Dates & Commission Meeting Dates​

Quarter	Reimbursement Request Due Date	Commission Meeting Date (when the reimbursements will be approved/denied)
4th 2023	Wednesday, February 14	Wednesday, March 27
1st 2024	Wednesday, May 15	Wednesday, June 12
2nd 2024	Wednesday, August 14	Wednesday, September 18
3rd 2024	Thursday

Reimbursement Forms & Due Dates, Salary & Wage Requirements, Attorney Qualification Forms

www.in.gov

Thanks for this info STG, makes for a better morning when you can see factual information rather than relying on the words of R&B.

I do have to wonder though how, when R&B offered to represent RA pro bono, did they think they would have managed that? No, I really don't have to wonder, it was all empty words in a desperate effort to stay on the case, quickly forgotten after their emotional, grand gesture.

JMO

 

[layer]

I do have to wonder though how, when R&B offered to represent RA pro bono, did they think they would have managed that?

You wonder how they would have managed this case without getting the lame $100 an hour court-appointed legal pay? Probably about the same as they are now - scrounging for resources to try to provide their client with his constitutionally mandated right to a fair trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

View attachment 493210
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Who is this person writing the Judge? I mean any FB, TikTok, Podcaster or YT can form an opinion (as we have) but to write the Judge and insert yourself is a little scary to me. I hope the Judge and Prosecution have security. Have people been asked to do this by the SM hounds? IDK? This case has turned into an utter farce at the expense of the 2 innocent VICTIMS and their families.

The SCOIN found Judge Gull unanimously competent to continue as Judge in this trial. I find their opinion a little more reassuring than a random strangers.

Just because people defending RA don't like or agree with Judge Gull's rulings doesn't make them biased or wrong. It's not like every Motion filed by either side will be granted a hearing. If that were so, the Court system would never get anyone to trial. Am I missing something here, seriously?

EBM: I see now that this is for televised coverage.

JMO

 

[susane7]

I agree and find it hard to believe the Court would have denied one, do you have a link for JG denying a FP at any time during the case? It's astounding to me that the Defense did not seek one out or even talk to the ME before they published their FM narrative?? I believe they didn't make a request for one earlier or speak to the ME because it didn't support their claims in the FM.

Yet, they still pressed the Motion for Speedy Trial knowing that they aren't even close to ready, admitting they need more time now. Oct R&B - Judge, we're ready, don't disqualify us, grant us a speedy trial, let's Go.

March R&B - Judge, this case is so 'voluminous' we need more time, people and $$$$, let's Stop.

It's just another example of the incompetent representation by R&B.

MOO

I really doubt we will have a trial on May. The defense doesn't seem prepared and probably will ask for a continuance because "funds, voluminous discovery, etc". In almost every filing they say something and then say how they could be wrong because they haven’t actually gone through all the evidence. I really hope I'm wrong because the trial is where the real facts of the case will be presented. The further the trial, more this pre-trial circus.

 

[Megnut]

This Defense 'word plays' everything. JG denied our request for experts, yet here they've approved $6K for one. That's quite a bit, maybe they're scouting for the ones who will say what they want to hear. Those would be much more expensive if they're going to put their name and reputation on the line.

The Defense does not get an unlimited budget for experts in any State or in any Case. They work within a budget. I still want to see receipts for what they've spent so far and to whom and what it was paid for. Would be interesting to me to see a factual accounting of it, rather than just taking the words of R&B.

MOO

This is some seriously fallacious maneuvering by the Defense IMO.

First, or 700th, this absurd claim that there's exculpatory evidence contained in the missing reel. And now, that their client has a defense but it's locked away in the brain vault of a singular, expensive expert -- smoke and mirrors.

And an obnoxious set up for appeal. Yes, your Honor, we understand that our client has been found guilty by a jury of his peers but he was denied a defense because we were barred from presenting that evidence.

He has no defense. They wouldn't be doing this if they had something real to pursue.

Client tried to eat discovery.

He knows he's toast.

They know he's toast.

Burned toast, thrown out in the snowpile. Even birds won't touch it.

JMO

 

[DeDee]

Rozzi and Baldwin alleged in their latest motion that documents exist summarizing these two interviews which are paramount to the defense team’s ritualistic killing theory. But these interviews only exist in summary documents, not raw recordings or direct transcriptions of what these two individuals said.
<> rsbm >>

How and why do they suppose the state 'intentionally' erased all of those interviews? Their client hadn't even been discovered much less arrested at that time.

The answer is in the first sentence. Two interviews paramount to the D's theory were erased.

Agreed, and agreed would not think this was intentional, but can they prove the timing of the erasure? If so, right, no way it was cooked up against RA, MOO. Otherwise, that could become an issue, too. Looks like it was discovered in 2017, so agreed that should be a non-issue/NewsNation: "Though Mullin discovered this loss of footage in 2017, according to the defense, they were notified about it only a couple of weeks ago." That 2017 is probably documented somewhere.

Either way, though, this is such a gift to the D that crowdsourcing will never be able to compare. I'm surprised they didn't note this prominently in their "parity" memo because if all they have is summary notes, they may have to revisit some of the people interviewed, I would think. I've heard different accounts of what's going to be available to them. I've heard summary notes, but I've also heard (alarmingly) there may be no complete master list of all those interviewed. Seeing this, NewsNation: "According to Mullin, there was also no written log of interviewers or interviewees." That is a possible catastrophe for the P, MOO. It would be better if they taped over it purposely, viewing it as "non-evidence," IMO. Still bad, but probably better than destroying interviews that might not have held potential evidentiary value. The P itself is saying others involved. Who's to say they didn't tape over an interview of one of the "others"? (I also believe others were involved.) All MOO.

If LE wanted to stop the investigation into the Odin angle, it's best the data be erased lest it be available for trial is merely one guess. Other critical interviews are forever lost. Everything that happens in Carroll County happens for a reason. IN LE has taught me in the past 6 years that there are no coincidences either.
MOO

 

[layer]

Just because people defending RA don't like or agree with Judge Gull's rulings doesn't make them biased or wrong.

I agree, I see a lot of denials but that may not indicate bias at all. I do wish she had recused herself after the whole mess ending in the scoin to avoid the appearance of conflict. Does anyone want to see a mistrial? I sure don't want to go through all this again.

 

[Megnut]

I've learned some (terrible) things following WS.

One is this: these crimes are often crazily ill-timed. Abducting a child from a shared bedroom. Murdering a coed in a well-populated sorority house. Every school shooting.

We can't fathom it. But we are bound by different principles.

Which IMO makes it exceedingly difficult for us to fathom operating without our principles and operating with a different set.

That RA, a bumbling harmless CVS employee, would interrupt his day, drive to MHB, murder two girls in broad daylight and walk back to his pedestrian life with nary a care in this world he'd be identified and caught. Within minutes of a victim's own father arriving, in search of. It defies our sensibilities.

But fact, even if you don't believe RA is BG, it remains the case that somebody did it.

And how?

Here's how: (IMO)

He wasn't bound by fear. Fear of getting caught, fear of being found out, fear of prison. Nope. No fear.

Thrill. Or anger. Or thrill and anger. But no fear.

He was on a mission. Not afraid, emboldened.

And that's scary as hell.

JMO

 

[layer]

He wasn't bound by fear. Fear of getting caught, fear of being found out, fear of prison. Nope. No fear.
Thrill. Or anger. Or thrill and anger. But no fear.
He was on a mission. Not afraid, emboldened.

The more I learn about this crime, the more I think it was driven by some kind of bizarre fantasy. I would think the perp would have ample evidence of this sort of ideology on his devices. Since RA apparently kept every cell phone he ever used, I assume the same was true of his computers. Maybe seemingly harmless videos and photos of near-naked wood nymphs with horns or something like that.

 

[susiQ]

Agreed, and agreed would not think this was intentional, but can they prove the timing of the erasure? If so, right, no way it was cooked up against RA, MOO. Otherwise, that could become an issue, too. Looks like it was discovered in 2017, so agreed that should be a non-issue/NewsNation: "Though Mullin discovered this loss of footage in 2017, according to the defense, they were notified about it only a couple of weeks ago." That 2017 is probably documented somewhere.

Either way, though, this is such a gift to the D that crowdsourcing will never be able to compare. I'm surprised they didn't note this prominently in their "parity" memo because if all they have is summary notes, they may have to revisit some of the people interviewed, I would think. I've heard different accounts of what's going to be available to them. I've heard summary notes, but I've also heard (alarmingly) there may be no complete master list of all those interviewed. Seeing this, NewsNation: "According to Mullin, there was also no written log of interviewers or interviewees." That is a possible catastrophe for the P, MOO. It would be better if they taped over it purposely, viewing it as "non-evidence," IMO. Still bad, but probably better than destroying interviews that might not have held potential evidentiary value. The P itself is saying others involved. Who's to say they didn't tape over an interview of one of the "others"? (I also believe others were involved.) All MOO.

Thank you for your balanced approach.

Unfortunately, even if they call in these individuals (that were tipped in), 7 years later, they’ve had plenty of time to get their stories straight and have the added advantage that their digital data is likely gone. These were at minimum two people directly linked to JM and EF. Only two or three weeks later, MJ, EF’s sister, and her husband drove to Delphi to speak with LE regarding EF’s admission to being, on a bridge where two girls were killed, he now had a “brother” (initiation of some sort into a “brotherhood”), he spit on one of the girls and put sticks in her hair because she was a troublemaker and a pain in the you know what. Just wow, for me. Yet, it then took repeated attempts by MJ to get LE to interview her brother.

My theory is that BH’s link to EF is being protected for whatever reason and attention was purposely being directed away from him from the get go and therefore there was no interest by some to investigate any of this further which is exactly what happened. Those LE that saw the value in pursuing this line of investigation were told to stand down (my terminology), nothing to see here and move on! Keep in mind, those who tipped in BH had good reason and their interviews are part of the discovery.

I can’t say these interviews were purposely overwritten but the evidence was certainly not regarded as “important” and looked to be intentionally ignored to cover any link to this murder. Shame, shame! EF was tipped in only 3 weeks after the murders and a couple of weeks after the interviews of BH and PW. Here we are 7 years on. How much valuable time was lost by not fully tracking down the movements of all of these possible POI’s and their associations/connections with one another only weeks following this tragedy. Let’s also remember, a person does not have to be physically present to be responsible for a murder, so alibis are not proof of no involvement in some cases.

As always, all MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think the Defense has seen the firmed up witness list by the State and are now literally freaking out, FBI CAST Agents are Pros, I've seen them in action on the stand and it is amazing what data they can recover and formulate.

The D has stated many times over that there is NO DIGITAL DATA connecting Pauper RA (their word) to this crime, NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, and so on and so on. Don't forget those pesky confessions and his 'mental stress' which blew the door wide open to the State for his mental/physical records.

If what they claim is all true and RA is innocent, why are they now scrambling and begging for money to dispute these professionals? Because RA=BG=Killer(s), it's really that simple, conspiracies aside.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

The more I learn about this crime, the more I think it was driven by some kind of bizarre fantasy. I would think the perp would have ample evidence of this sort of ideology on his devices. Since RA apparently kept every cell phone he ever used, I assume the same was true of his computers. Maybe seemingly harmless videos and photos of near-naked wood nymphs with horns or something like that.

Maybe he does, we haven't seen the State's evidence yet.

CSAM predators have learned to cover their tracks well IMO. They have children and wives at home, they drink and play pool down at the local bar, they're the friendly nondescript manager at the local drug store. Can't have anything tying them to that kind of lifestyle, they come across as harmless and oftentimes helpful. Duality is their way of life.

We see it happen time and time again. Just pick any number of countless threads here on WS. It's disturbing and disgusting and I hope justice comes to Abby & Libby in the most severe form to the monster who killed them.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

This is some seriously fallacious maneuvering by the Defense IMO.

First, or 700th, this absurd claim that there's exculpatory evidence contained in the missing reel. And now, that their client has a defense but it's locked away in the brain vault of a singular, expensive expert -- smoke and mirrors.

And an obnoxious set up for appeal. Yes, your Honor, we understand that our client has been found guilty by a jury of his peers but he was denied a defense because we were barred from presenting that evidence.

He has no defense. They wouldn't be doing this if they had something real to pursue.

Client tried to eat discovery.

He knows he's toast.

They know he's toast.

Burned toast, thrown out in the snowpile. Even birds won't touch it.

JMO

You are right.
The defense does not request actual discovery. They always request discovery that maybe could possibly exist, and by George, once that possible evidence manifests itself from the ether, it will undeniably be exculpatory.
The defense’s mantra is “all evidence that exists in reality, must be thrown out. All make-believe evidence that exists only in our minds is exculpatory”.
Days to trial: 46

 

[girlhasnoname]

I agree, I see a lot of denials but that may not indicate bias at all. I do wish she had recused herself after the whole mess ending in the scoin to avoid the appearance of conflict. Does anyone want to see a mistrial? I sure don't want to go through all this again.

Why should she have recused herself when the SCOIN found voted to keep her as Judge? I believe she deeply and rightfully was offended by the D's actions and was worried about RA's rights to competent defense. She saw what we've only just found out and I doubt if we even know the half of it.

If not for their misconduct and continued gaming, I'd bet we'd be busy working towards a trial with competent, qualified attorneys S&L and a real trial date of Oct. which makes much more sense to me. Absolutely better for RA and his 6th amendment rights IMO.

But what do I know, I've only been following this case for 7 years. If, and that's a big if, the trial starts in May, and if RA is found guilty, the appeals are likely already drafted. It's sad that the victims families might have to go through another trial.

The stunts the D continues to pull (and I think they do it purposely) is because they know they can't win at trial. They've used Social Media as the Judge and Jury for this case. They're going to be in for a big shock when they have to convince a jury of RA's peers of his innocence, not SM content creator$$$ who are riding the fame train.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant say they must rely on online donations to pay for Richard Allen’s defense experts​

“We’re trying to crowdfund to make it a fair fight,” attorney David Hennessy told 13News Tuesday.

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant say they must rely on online donations to pay for Richard Allen’s defense experts

“We’re trying to crowdfund to make it a fair fight,” attorney David Hennessy told 13News Tuesday.

www.wthr.com

In the first 24 hours, the fundraising campaign raised more than $10,000 of the $25,000 goal.
The crowdfunding effort comes after Allen’s attorneys filed court documents claiming that special judge Frances Gull has been denying their funding requests.

“All the money will go to experts. It won’t go to the attorneys, and it won’t go to Rick [Allen],” attorney David Hennessy said.

Allen’s attorneys have indicated the judge wants them to pay for expert witness expenses up front and that she will then review their reimbursement requests to determine if they will be granted.

According to the defense team, Gull has approved much less than requested.

For example, the defense team claims the judge approved $6,262 for them to consult with a firearms expert and a digital forensic expert about Delphi crime scene evidence, but they say the judge denied additional consultations with those experts as “unsupported” expenses.

Where the experts they requested qualified?