Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #180

[sunshineray]

Aha, the concern is that it is being used to circumvent the gag order. That makes sense.
Often confused, rarely insulted... and thankful that the technology to project sticks and stones through a screen is years away.

I did mention that also in my original post you replied to.

 

[AugustWest]

It was a shock and awe Hail Mary pass by this Defense to garner some sympathy for RA or to point fingers at inept LE and conspiracy theories. It was not done in good faith and an "oooopsie, I forgot I shouldn't have filed that at 2:04 am without marking it confidential, sorry" knowing there would be no clerk to pull it off the site.

RSBM

This isn't how electronic filing works. The clerk would file the motion in the morning after they arrived at work. The motion wouldn't immediately fly on to the internet. The time stamp (when it was filed) would be marked as the time the digital copy was sent to the clerk (at 2:00 am), and is important to make sure the motion was filed in a timely manner (to satisfy statutory requirements).

They needed to file a motion. They filed a motion. That is how you inform a court of the information you need to convey. This is all covered by procedure statutes.

 

[layer]

I did mention that also in my original post you replied to.

I'm honestly still trying to digest your concerns.

 

[Emma Peel]

The whole idea of crowdfunding by attorneys has always left me feeling a bit uneasy. It’s long been a concern that folks with the most money get the best defense. Of course everyone deserves an equal playing field regardless of their financial status. However, is this the right way to do this? Is it ethical? As we are seeing in this case, who should control the money?
And, does this really level the playing field? Will we start hiring defense attorneys who are the best fund raisers? Won’t they start charging more if they convince the clients they can raise a lot of money to get supreme “expert” witnesses? What if the defendant isn’t popular, maybe charged with an heinous crime, or is just plain unlikeable? Would people donate? What if the prosecution has a limited budget? Should they be allowed to crowdfund, too?
The courts are supposed to provide the defense with funds to ensure they can hire the experts they want and to cover other expenses. Unfortunately, the “experts” are charging more and more because the wealthy can afford them. The court funds given to defense attorneys are limited.
I think this issue needs a good going over and parameters need to be set.

How do you feel about crowdfunding without specifically stating that the funds will be used for Defense expert costs?

For example, let's say there's a crowdfunding initiative for RA's family, who are innocent, but suffering financial hardships directly related to RA's criminal prosecution. Crowdfunding on a simple platform, no mention of how funds will be held, distributed, tracked.

Does that solve the issue?

JMHO

 

[Emma Peel]

View attachment 496312
read some press that the item atop this list might be a new gag order.

Judge issues new gag order in Delphi double murders case

 

[sunshineray]

RSBM

This isn't how electronic filing works. The clerk would file the motion in the morning after they arrived at work. The motion wouldn't immediately fly on to the internet. The time stamp (when it was filed) would be marked as the time the digital copy was sent to the clerk (at 2:00 am), and is important to make sure the motion was filed in a timely manner (to satisfy statutory requirements).

They needed to file a motion. They filed a motion. That is how you inform a court of the information you need to convey. This is all covered by procedure statutes.

I'm curious, what are your thoughts on the discovery sent to the youtuber BW, who had communicated with AB before it happened. Was that just an oopsie, that took how long to report to the court and only then because it was discovered by others? It's like a dark cloud just follows them around, like Joe Btfsplk.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm honestly still trying to digest your concerns.

It didn't feel like that but no worries.

 

[AugustWest]

@sunshineray I don't know who BW is or the circumstance you are describing. I try to stay away from all the drama following this case, but I will say I don't feel Mr. Baldwin is the most meticulous lawyer in the world. "Oopsie" could be his normal.

ETA: I have read all official documents from the docket, just not the outside stuff.

 

[justtrish]

For 5 years LE kept a darn tight lid on the details of this case. Even with their screw ups and missteps they held information close to the vest. Did local LE give reporters some benign comment here or there, yes. They did a few interviews, but answered mostly "I can't comment on that because it's an ongoing investigation". They held a few PC's too.

Fast forward to Oct 2022 after RA's arrest, we learned minimal information from the PCA. Not uncommon, they just needed to show probable cause. We even discussed among ourselves "Is that it?".

Then on to Sept 2023 after the Gag/Protection Order had been in place for months came the Defense with their infamous Memo in support of Franks. The world knew everything at that point. Every theory of every person (named no less) they suspected, and worse than that, an entire section describing the brutal crimes scenes and things the public should have never known that were done to those young girls.

It was a shock and awe Hail Mary pass by this Defense to garner some sympathy for RA or to point fingers at inept LE and conspiracy theories. It was not done in good faith and an "oooopsie, I forgot I shouldn't have filed that at 2:04 am without marking it confidential, sorry" knowing there would be no clerk to pull it off the site.

So of course, what happened? Exactly what they planned IMO. Every SM, Podcaster, YouTuber and even MSM had a copy of it and it was the hot topic and this case has swirled the toilet ever since. It's a travesty for all involved because it should be about justice for two innocent girls, finding the truth, and punishing the killer(s).

JMO

You always say things so much better than I can. I forgot about the 2am uploading of the FM.... such an odd hour they were just burning the midnight oil and sent it because that is when they finished it.. pulling an all nighter and just said upload it now. I doubt it. As you said they knew what they were doing and within hours the world knew things about the crime scene they should not have known till trial.

Actually, they knew things through the lens of the DEFENSE interpretation of the crime scene.. the narrative they wanted to push was presented in the FM with many footnotes that seem to get ignored by those that want to say it's facts.

 

[Salah11]

How do you feel about crowdfunding without specifically stating that the funds will be used for Defense expert costs?

For example, let's say there's a crowdfunding initiative for RA's family, who are innocent, but suffering financial hardships directly related to RA's criminal prosecution. Crowdfunding on a simple platform, no mention of how funds will be held, distributed, tracked.

Does that solve the issue?

JMHO

I will jump in here even though this isn’t directly aimed at me and I personally would rather give my hard earned money to a worthy cause. RA’s family would be the last people on earth I would donate to as then who’s to say that money isn’t used for him in Jail in some form at a later date?!

There are a million and one charity’s to donate to who deserve my charity and need my help who are actually deserving.

 

[TTF14]

Yes indeed. And the FM really highlights the unethical and gross neglligence, IMO

Of both the Defense and the State! But only the Defense will be held accountable because Judge Gull is so biased.

IMO, MOO.

 

[sunshineray]

Of both the Defense and the State! But only the Defense will be held accountable because Judge Gull is so biased.

IMO, MOO.

What has the State done to be held in contempt of court?

 

[TTF14]

the narrative they wanted to push was presented in the FM with many footnotes that seem to get ignored by those that want to say it's facts.

If anyone is ignoring the footnotes it's those of you who assume the footnotes don't back up the facts in the FM but only prove them to be lies. Even though none of us are privy to the information that's in the footnotes.

IMO, mOO

 

[Salah11]

Of both the Defense and the State! But only the Defense will be held accountable because Judge Gull is so biased.

IMO, MOO.

I must of missed the prosecution letting in friends and leaking photos of the victims dead who are 13 and 14 years of age. Even in Death the defense have managed to strip of them of their dignity even more due to negligence on their part.

I am not convinced it’s Judge Gull being Biased here!!!

mooooooo

 

[layer]

What has the State done to be held in contempt of court?

Reading sealed ex parte communications?

 

[girlhasnoname]

Of both the Defense and the State! But only the Defense will be held accountable because Judge Gull is so biased.

IMO, MOO.

Not according to the SCOIN though.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If anyone is ignoring the footnotes it;s those of you who assume the footnotes don't back up the facts in the FM but only prove them to be lies. Even though none of us are privy to the information that's in the footnotes.

IMO, mOO

Agreed, but that cuts both ways. Since none of us are privy to the information the D have claimed doesn't mean it's the truth either. It could be just the D interpretation of the truth.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

RSBM

This isn't how electronic filing works. The clerk would file the motion in the morning after they arrived at work. The motion wouldn't immediately fly on to the internet. The time stamp (when it was filed) would be marked as the time the digital copy was sent to the clerk (at 2:00 am), and is important to make sure the motion was filed in a timely manner (to satisfy statutory requirements).

They needed to file a motion. They filed a motion. That is how you inform a court of the information you need to convey. This is all covered by procedure statutes.

That isn't what happened here. The very first copies circulated online didn't even have time stamps, might those have found their way into SM or friends hands before it was filed to the Court? Through some form of mistake, intentional or not, it was sent directly out by R&B, not marked confidential and was posted online before the clerk saw that it was Confidential/Protected material and could removed it from the site. I was here when it happened, I have strange sleep habits.

I know you said you haven't followed everything here so just wanted to offer that info. up.

moo

 

[sunshineray]

Reading sealed ex parte communications?

An oopsie with really no info that wouldn't have been discoverable. It doesn't poison the jury pool either as NM never went public with the information. He only filed for records that he'd already had filed for, withdrew that filing and the defense released it in discovery not long after. I don't see that as contempt. AJMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Reading sealed ex parte communications?

If NMcL is found to have knowingly viewed what he understood being presented to him was ex-parte, meaning marked as such, then yes, he should have to answer for that IMO.

Justice is blind it isn't for the Defense or the Prosecution, it's for the Truth, and so am I no matter where that truth might ultimately lead us.

JMO