All About Chloroform#2

[fortytwo]

Also, Lanie did you know chloroform was adictive?

Well at least dicussing it is.

From what you have read do you still think KC made it either regularly, or as a one off to use in a detailed plan? Seriously do you think that happened?
Personally I think making a cup of instant coffee was the limit of her chemical brewing.

Hi,Hercule. I would love to think that Casey is just a dope. Yet, look how long she had everyone looking away from the real disposal site. She talked about Blanchard Park and Universal...look away. She had everyone following pings. And long enough so that important forensics were lost. Sheer luck? Maybe.

I believe that Casey could have made the chloroform if she chose to. The excitement of doing something of this sort might have appealed to her dark side. Or maybe she stole it. Who knows?

One thing that seems the least likely: That any chemical reaction took place in the trunk of the car. Uncontrolled mixing of these chemicals can be disasterous--even causing explosions. That must be why Flowers is so sure it didn't happen by mistake.

My aproach is to base my assesment on hard facts, but we all have to fill in the huge gaps with guesses. The best we can do is bring our own experiences. I do not know KC but I know people with that type of lifestyle, experience, schooling etc and I would put money on the fact that she did not mix up chloroform.
She actually dumped the body in a nearby sstupid place - as I would expect. It was dumb luck it didn't get found within the first 20mins of searching! Just down the road where people dump rubbish anyway is where I would look first! The fact that I back and support LE to the max precludes me from saying too much more. But really?

The whole chloroform interest stems from the internet search! Read JWG's breakdown. It was hardly a "Search" and lasted, but seconds, perhaps minutes.
I am not excluding a possibility of chloroform and applaud LE for checking. But there is NO EVIDENCE yet.

Hercule. I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of KC's abilities and energy.

Indigo. I think that KC's misdirection of LE resulted not so much from any criminal brilliance on her part but rather from an understandable disbelief that anyone would offer such blatantly obvious lies. I offer her trip to Universal Studios to show them her "office" as an example.

 

[Indigo]

Hercule. I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of KC's abilities and energy.

Indigo. I think that KC's misdirection of LE resulted not so much from any criminal brilliance on her part but rather from an understandable disbelief that anyone would offer such blatantly obvious lies. I offer her trip to Universal Studios to show them her "office" as an example.

Thanks for your response, fortytwo. I do go back and forth about the chloroform and whether or not Casey would actually go through the effort. I wonder about the Chloro2 search, as this seems even a step further into the research phase.

ITA about Casey's "energy level" and the understandable disbelief of LE. But I also think Casey's mind worked overtime--just so she would never have to. That's what Casey did for a living. Street smarts are a funny thing--not what most of us would consider brilliant. But somehow we can get tricked by them anyway... mostly because these people just don't seem to be very intelligent.

It was stupid of Casey to tell all those lies. Or was it? LE tried to look within her lies and see the truth--thinking she had been unsophisticated enough to reveal where Caylee might be found. They focused on the places where Casey mentioned ZFG had taken Caylee. Surprise. Casey had even seeded her lies with lies. She thought it would buy her time.

But Casey messed up where most people like her do. They think they're invincible. They get cocky. She thought she was going to be able to fend off the front lines (her family/friends) long enough to catch the pumpkin coach out of town. Surprise.

 

[Rumpole]

Thanks for your response, fortytwo. I do go back and forth about the chloroform and whether or not Casey would actually go through the effort. I wonder about the Chloro2 search, as this seems even a step further into the research phase.

ITA about Casey's "energy level" and the understandable disbelief of LE. But I also think Casey's mind worked overtime--just so she would never have to. That's what Casey did for a living. Street smarts are a funny thing--not what most of us would consider brilliant. But somehow we can get tricked by them anyway... mostly because these people just don't seem to be very intelligent.

It was stupid of Casey to tell all those lies. Or was it? LE tried to look within her lies and see the truth--thinking she had been unsophisticated enough to reveal where Caylee might be found. They focused on the places where Casey mentioned ZFG had taken Caylee. Surprise. Casey had even seeded her lies with lies. She thought it would buy her time.

But Casey messed up where most people like her do. They think they're invincible. They get cocky. She thought she was going to be able to fend off the front lines (her family/friends) long enough to catch the pumpkin coach out of town. Surprise.

It's a horrible way to have to think for a second, but couldn't, we all think of a better, smarter way to dispose of a 2 year old child. This crime has got "Really Stupid" stamped on it, surely?

 

[Indigo]

It's a horrible way to have to think for a second, but couldn't, we all think of a better, smarter way to dispose of a 2 year old child. This crime has got "Really Stupid" stamped on it, surely?

The dump site could have been unintended (due to some unforseen circumstance--perhaps leakage). Could have been planned to look like framing. Could just be really stupid.

The chloroform is the same kind of puzzle. She searched for how to make it. It's there in her trunk. But if it turns out that she made it, or bought it, wouldn't something "easier" have been smarter? It all depends. Maybe some people will believe a mother would never do that to her child. Maybe she's trying to throw the blame in another direction. Maybe she's just stupid.

 

[fortytwo]

The dump site could have been unintended (due to some unforseen circumstance--perhaps leakage). Could have been planned to look like framing. Could just be really stupid.

The chloroform is the same kind of puzzle. She searched for how to make it. It's there in her trunk. But if it turns out that she made it, or bought it, wouldn't something "easier" have been smarter? It all depends. Maybe some people will believe a mother would never do that to her child. Maybe she's trying to throw the blame in another direction. Maybe she's just stupid.

My vote is on "stupid".

Not incredibly, jaw-droppingly, Jim Carrey character stupid. Just your average garden variety stupid complicated by ignorance and sloth.

...and the endearing personality attributes of a rabid weasel.

On second thought, perhaps I'm being harsh on weasels.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Also, Lanie did you know chloroform was adictive?

Well at least dicussing it is.

From what you have read do you still think KC made it either regularly, or as a one off to use in a detailed plan? Seriously do you think that happened?
Personally I think making a cup of instant coffee was the limit of her chemical brewing.

Bold is mine- LOL!

I agree. It makes no sense why she would go to all the trouble to make and use chloroform when OTC Benadryl (or tons of other meds OTC or RX) would kill a child just as well with far less trouble.

 

[Indigo]

My vote is on "stupid".

Not incredibly, jaw-droppingly, Jim Carrey character stupid. Just your average garden variety stupid complicated by ignorance and sloth.

...and the endearing personality attributes of a rabid weasel.

On second thought, perhaps I'm being harsh on weasels.

Don't hold back now,fortytwo--say what you really mean! lol.

 

[Ripley007]

Unless LE knows something we don't know, the Chloroform search done on the A's family Home computer is easily dismissed since RM posted his "funny" pic about it around the same time. It's quite logical that KC may have became curious and googled it.
I've never bought into the whole "drugging Caylee and placing her the trunk while KC partied" theory. Not with FL weather. IIRC, weeks before June 15th, there were no less than 2 stories in the news about 2 different mothers leaving their child inside a hot car. Both children died. If KC watched CNN, then she surely heard about these cases too.
And re the dump site. Lazy stupidity. How else to explain? Aren't we suspossed believe that KC was "researching" missing children? What info did she gather if she did? "How to get caught?" She lives in FL for goodness sakes. Hello. Alligators. What was she thinking? She wasn't.

 

[OneLostGrl]

My vote is on "stupid".

Not incredibly, jaw-droppingly, Jim Carrey character stupid. Just your average garden variety stupid complicated by ignorance and sloth.

...and the endearing personality attributes of a rabid weasel.

On second thought, perhaps I'm being harsh on weasels.

I agree... and I don't see much in the way of street smarts in her either. She doesn't even come up with decent fake "proof" or "reasons" to back up her lies. She pulls a lousy con (not just in regard to Caylee missing but her money stealing and use of that money too) She is, IMO very transparent.

The only reason this took so long to figure out (find Caylee's remains, etc) IMO is because she had her parents fooled for "31 days". Had LE been allowed to begin the investigation from day 1, things would have turned out very differently IMO.

 

[Rumpole]

My vote is on "stupid".

Not incredibly, jaw-droppingly, Jim Carrey character stupid. Just your average garden variety stupid complicated by ignorance and sloth.

...and the endearing personality attributes of a rabid weasel.

On second thought, perhaps I'm being harsh on weasels.

I think you have underestimated "Lazy"

 

[txsvicki]

I still say that if Casey was looking up chloroform, she could have printed the page with the instructions. She wouldn't have necessarily have had to read for over a few minutes and could have even looked it up on someone else's computer as well. I'd think that if Casey were curious about Ricardo's chloroform thing on his page that she would have looked up the history of chloroform or something and not directions for how to make it along with inhalants. Actually, if CSI Miami was really one of her favorite shows she could have learned about chloroform on one of their episodes.

 

[Rumpole]

I still say that if Casey was looking up chloroform, she could have printed the page with the instructions. She wouldn't have necessarily have had to read for over a few minutes and could have even looked it up on someone else's computer as well. I'd think that if Casey were curious about Ricardo's chloroform thing on his page that she would have looked up the history of chloroform or something and not directions for how to make it along with inhalants. Actually, if CSI Miami was really one of her favorite shows she could have learned about chloroform on one of their episodes.

By that reasoning she could have looked anything on another computer.

Should we cover the possibility she was building a thermonuclear device?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Bold is mine- LOL!

I agree. It makes no sense why she would go to all the trouble to make and use chloroform when OTC Benadryl (or tons of other meds OTC or RX) would kill a child just as well with far less trouble.

TY Two words=Staging + Cleanup. Disposal site initially chosen so her clever (not) efforts to deflect blame could be discovered (a strategy which reached, in time, and due to Fay, a point of diminishing returns). And there have been to date no chemicals, containers, purchases nor anything which connects chloroform to Caylee--only to trunk. JMO
arrot:

 

[OneLostGrl]

TY Two words= Staging + Cleanup. Disposal site chosen so her clever (not) efforts to deflect blame could be discovered (though w passing time this reached a point of diminishing returns). And there have been thus far no chemicals, containers, purchases nor anything to date which connects chloroform to Caylee--only trunk. JMO

oohh, you are such a smart bird! :blowkiss:

 

[txsvicki]

By that reasoning she could have looked anything on another computer.

Should we cover the possibility she was building a thermonuclear device?

But, she did look it up on her computer and someone turned up dead and there's chloroform in the trunk. It's evidence even if the chloroform site wasn't kept up for an hour or however long someone thinks it might need to be read. I see what you're saying though, if they don't have any more chloroform evidence then it might not be enough to prove at the trial.

 

[fortytwo]

I still say that if Casey was looking up chloroform, she could have printed the page with the instructions. She wouldn't have necessarily have had to read for over a few minutes and could have even looked it up on someone else's computer as well. I'd think that if Casey were curious about Ricardo's chloroform thing on his page that she would have looked up the history of chloroform or something and not directions for how to make it along with inhalants. Actually, if CSI Miami was really one of her favorite shows she could have learned about chloroform on one of their episodes.

From the very beginning there was something about the image of MacGyver KC industriously hunched over a homemade kitchen lab, cleverly whipping up a batch of human ingestable chloroform from easily obtained everyday ingredients that sent me into paroxysms of uncontrollable laughter.

It still makes me chuckle.

 

[fortytwo]

By that reasoning she could have looked anything on another computer.

Should we cover the possibility she was building a thermonuclear device?

Naw. That's SOOO last millennium. Everybody's doing it.

I'm thinking anti-matter.

...and didn't I hear something about black holes on Nancy?

 

[Indigo]

I agree... and I don't see much in the way of street smarts in her either. She doesn't even come up with decent fake "proof" or "reasons" to back up her lies. She pulls a lousy con (not just in regard to Caylee missing but her money stealing and use of that money too) She is, IMO very transparent.

The only reason this took so long to figure out (find Caylee's remains, etc) IMO is because she had her parents fooled for "31 days". Had LE been allowed to begin the investigation from day 1, things would have turned out very differently IMO.

Hey,OneLostGirl. ITA that Casey would never have been able to lead LE on her leash. She knew that too. It seems she played where she knew the territory--her family. I believe she counted on tricking her parents indefinitely. Eventually just move away with Mr. Right Now.

If she finally put some miles between herself and her family she could continue to have her parking lot conversations with her mother over the cell phone, and nobody would be the wiser.

Mom thinks Caylee is with her. Tony believes she gave Caylee to Mom--and never the twain shall meet. Plan B: if Caylee is ever found (remember,no one would have even known to search) go back to the nanny story and cry "I'm such a bad mother for leaving her with somebody I trusted--I never told because I knew Mom would never forgive me."

Really, though, when it comes down to it, how does anyone think they're going to get away with murder?

 

[fortytwo]

Really, though, when it comes down to it, how does anyone think they're going to get away with murder?

(snip)

The operative word here is "think".

Nothing in what I know of or have seen in KC's behavior suggests any particular familiarity with that habit on her part.

I have not had much regard for the multitude of conspiracy theories, elaborate plots, or carefully contrived scenarios that are so often presented in this case because none of them are necessary to account for the facts.

 

[Indigo]

Naw. That's SOOO last millennium. Everybody's doing it.

I'm thinking anti-matter.

...and didn't I hear something about black holes on Nancy?

You guys are watching way too much Nancy Grace again! Three ingredients--and we're talking about black holes and anti-matter? Maybe we need a babel fish and some deprogramming.

LE hasn't given up on the chloroform. It's been confirmed in two separate tests--one for the chemical alone. It's listed the search warrant. It's still a thing. JMO. At least until the next document dump....

Then maybe you'll be rid of me!

ETA: I'm joking here...I just realized it may not sound like that. Big Smiley Face.