Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #35

[possumheart]

Too hard to quote from an iPhone, however OH works with acquired brain injury adults and can testify to the amoral psyche they can have

 

[Strangeworld]

Too hard to quote from an iPhone, however OH works with acquired brain injury adults and can testify to the amoral psyche they can have

Absolutely. A bit broader than simply moral reasoning, though. Especially the frontal lobe.

 

[possumheart]

Absolutely. A bit broader than simply moral reasoning, though. Especially the frontal lobe.

Can be territorial and strong

 

[Bayside]

Gerard Baden-Clay solicitor Michael Bosscher files for bankruptcy

July 22, 2012 12:00AM

ONE of Queensland's best known criminal lawyers, Michael Bosscher, has filed for bankruptcy and is appealing a Queensland Law Society decision to cancel his certificate to practise as a solicitor in Queensland.
Mr Bosscher, a founding partner of defunct law firm Ryan & Bosscher, now works for his wife's firm, Bosscher Lawyers, and is one of the solicitors representing accused wife murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

On July 9, in a Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal, Mr Bosscher was granted a stay of the Law Society executive committee's recent decision to refuse his application to renew his practising certificate this year. But if his upcoming appeal in QCAT is unsuccessful, he will not be able to practise as a lawyer.

According to documents filed in QCAT, Mr Bosscher filed for bankruptcy on May 2. In a statement of affairs, he says partnership debts involved amounts owed to unsecured creditors, including barristers and the Australian Taxation Office

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-for-bankruptcy/story-e6freoof-1226431613334

Well there you go, interesting indeed.

 

[pulpfiction]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178991&page=36

[start quote]

Pulp Fiction, I was a little bit surprised to read the above bolded by me statement. I too have a background in psychology (I'm not verified on here, so won't go into too much detail on that), which made me do a double-take re your post.

I think there is a much stronger balance of nature/nurture than you have acknowledged. Sure, environment can play a major part, but we are also born with a specific genetic makeup that means two people exposed to the same circumstances don't always respond the same way. Just like someone who develops cancer, there is a genetic predisposition, that is triggered through exposure. And in some situations, decision-making and free will certainly influence how a person develops (or how stilted their development is). Your statement suggests hope is lost if born into a damaging home environment. I just don't agree with this, and from your other posts, I don't think you believe this either.

And the suggestion that 'the apple doesn't fall far from the tree' is a very very broad generalisation - murderers do not necessarily breed murderers (through genetics or parenting). There are just way too many factors for this statement to be plausible.

I also believe that the term 'born evil', although featured in the research literature nowadays, brings forward a whole lot of generalisations and assumptions from the old 'good versus evil' concept. I am not sure how 'evil' can be classifed in the DSM? It also suggests a very black and white view of what our profession views as mental illness and psychopathy.

You sound like you do an absolutely brilliant job working with kids (which I can tell from your sincere posts), but I just had to comment re that one paragraph in your post.

Thanks for the compliment. Actually the apple doesnt fall far from the tree was in fact a direct reference to NBC and GBC. It was not in reference to anything other than those 2 characters. I can see how you might have thought otherwise though. As for the rest I'm not sure how or why you've arrived at your current viewpoints on what is black/white or what is nature/nurture and feel you're way off base with what my thoughts are professionally and generally speaking. But that's ok as this isn't the place for it as its an Allison Baden Clay forum and not an academic discussion But it's all good

Born Evil - is a popular term used commonly and somewhat negatively, in the media. It is used in this context to make a specific and descriptive point or analogy for this forum - not as an academic or even humanitarian construct. I do not believe in birn evil myself. Nature/nurture is a debate that will always be around as you correctly suggest. It is widely acknowledged in forensic psychology there is...actually I'm not going to head down that road - too long lol. I'm a little confused by your "Your statement suggests hope is lost if born into a damaging home environment. I just don't agree with this, and from your other posts, I don't think you believe this either". That is definitely not what I suggest or believe at all and I speak of small population.You may have jumped to a conclusion that is your own as its not mine lol. Suffice to say it is fact in prison populations that what I have said is often, but no, not always, true.

The DSM is a manual. It is not the only relevant or commonly used manual. It is open to much scrutiny and interpretation. It is often not as accurate or clear as it could be but provides a solid basis. It is regularly updated for these reasons. The construct of "evil" in terms of how it is perceived and measured is one that has been studied considerably in several prison populations both in USA and the UK. It is a fascinating methodology used and the stats indeed do show a statistically significant "evil" variable as vulgar as that sounds in terms of how we define it as such. Thank you for your interesting comments enjoyed your post.

 

[summer_breeze]

Thank you all for your responses in previous thread regarding Allison and "in the water on purpose"....

Interesting, isn't it? But, .... I am stuck on the wording of the second charge.

"Interference with a corpse" at KHOLO CREEK.

Am I wrong in interpreting that this means the corpse (how very cold this sounds....sigh) was disturbed AT KHOLO CREEK..??????

Seems to imply that something happened at the very site that Allison's poor body was found? Too specific to bypass?

 

[pulpfiction]

Absolutely. A bit broader than simply moral reasoning, though. Especially the frontal lobe.

Indeed it is. EEG provides an interesting look at this.

 

[Strangeworld]

Thanks for the compliment. Actually the apple doesnt fall far from the tree was in fact a direct reference to NBC and GBC. It was not in reference to anything other than those 2 characters. I can see how you might have thought otherwise though. As for the rest I'm not sure how or why you've arrived at your current viewpoints on what is black/white or what is nature/nurture and feel you're way off base with what my thoughts are professionally and generally speaking. But that's ok as this isn't the place for it as its an Allison Baden Clay forum and not an academic discussion But it's all good

Born Evil - is a popular term used commonly and somewhat negatively, in the media. It is used in this context to make a specific and descriptive point or analogy for this forum - not as an academic or even humanitarian construct. I do not believe in birn evil myself. Nature/nurture is a debate that will always be around as you correctly suggest. It is widely acknowledged in forensic psychology there is...actually I'm not going to head down that road - too long lol. I'm a little confused by your "Your statement suggests hope is lost if born into a damaging home environment. I just don't agree with this, and from your other posts, I don't think you believe this either". That is definitely not what I suggest or believe at all and I speak of small population.You may have jumped to a conclusion that is your own as its not mine lol. Suffice to say it is fact in prison populations that what I have said is often, but no, not always, true.

The DSM is a manual. It is not the only relevant or commonly used manual. It is open to much scrutiny and interpretation. It is often not as accurate or clear as it could be but provides a solid basis. It is regularly updated for these reasons. The construct of "evil" in terms of how it is perceived and measured is one that has been studied considerably in several prison populations both in USA and the UK. It is a fascinating methodology used and the stats indeed do show a statistically significant "evil" variable as vulgar as that sounds in terms of how we define it as such. Thank you for your interesting comments enjoyed your post.

Thanks for clarifying your thoughts (and the apple/tree reference ). Don't agree with everything you've said, but can definitely agree to disagree. I realise on this forum certain terms are used to describe behaviours, offenders, etc. I don't have a problem with that. I do when it is used in the context of a psychological perspective, as you have put forward in your posts.

My reference to the DSM was more in terms of clinical diagnosis - yes there are others used, but I was just highlighting my disagreement with the term 'evil' from a psychological assessment and diagnostic point of view.

I wasn't intending this to be an academic discussion, rather an applied discussion. I am just a bit confused now as to what stance you are taking re your original post. But might be best to move on from, me thinks! Don't want to detract from the main purpose of this thread either

 

[summer_breeze]

I must tell you all that I think healthy discussion (and disagreement) is important and necessary!

Education and information arms us all for better perspective and understanding that extends beyond Allison's case.


Thank you all for your tolerance of other's opinions and point of view. This lends itself to a very mature and respectful discussion!

 

[summer_breeze]

Easy on each other! Please.......

 

[pulpfiction]

Easy on each other! Please.......

It's ok I'm still more fascinated with entomology and caterpillars now and Scott Peterson's latest 470 Appeal! You have kindly allowed us to express our points of view and I thank you for that. Rigorous discussion and debate is healthy, informs our mindset and is also what underpins my practice framework - so its humbling, thought provoking and enlightening I'm ok with it but done as I'm tired

 

[ollijack]

Easy on each other! Please.......

What an enormous job you have. Thankyou. From my vaccations I learnt to relax. Xxxxxxxx

 

[pulpfiction]

Don't agree with everything you've said

Um...ditto

 

[summer_breeze]

What an enormous job you have. Thankyou. From my vaccations I learnt to relax. Xxxxxxxx

How sweet!!

I must admit, I am not a very good "bad guy".....I'm a softie! But I think most fail to understand the MODS here are all volunteers. I get grumpy if I have to spend hours "cleaning up". Especially when we have asked repeatedly....

 

[Berry]

Oh dear.... his cash flow problems aren't going to get better anytime soon I feel!:floorlaugh:

Yes chickens (gutless birds of a feather) stick together.

 

[YoureNicked]

How sweet!!

I must admit, I am not a very good "bad guy".....I'm a softie! But I think most fail to understand the MODS here are all volunteers. I get grumpy if I have to spend hours "cleaning up". Especially when we have asked repeatedly....

Wow! You are all volunteers? Didn't know that, summer_breeze. My respect for you and the other moderators goes up even more. I know how long it takes me to 'catch up' on the posts on this thread after one day...so if you are checking more than lot of threads then you must either be really fast readers and exhausted!

Thanks very much for the great work you all do in providing a well-run place for sleuths to exercise their brain cells and do a bit for promoting justice.


xox

 

[YoureNicked]

Thank you all for your responses in previous thread regarding Allison and "in the water on purpose"....

Interesting, isn't it? But, .... I am stuck on the wording of the second charge.

"Interference with a corpse" at KHOLO CREEK.

Am I wrong in interpreting that this means the corpse (how very cold this sounds....sigh) was disturbed AT KHOLO CREEK..??????

Seems to imply that something happened at the very site that Allison's poor body was found? Too specific to bypass?

Agree.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Thanks Pulpfiction for your posts. They have really touched me and saddened me even more.

Same, thanks Pulp.... Nice to know there are people like you in this world though. The girls would be so very lucky in my MOO if you were involved in their lives.

 

[Curiousasacat]

Hi Summer,
Thanks. I am sorry we are such naughty kids.
I know you love us though : )

 

[Curiousasacat]

Gerard Baden-Clay solicitor Michael Bosscher files for bankruptcy

July 22, 2012 12:00AM

ONE of Queensland's best known criminal lawyers, Michael Bosscher, has filed for bankruptcy and is appealing a Queensland Law Society decision to cancel his certificate to practise as a solicitor in Queensland.
Mr Bosscher, a founding partner of defunct law firm Ryan & Bosscher, now works for his wife's firm, Bosscher Lawyers, and is one of the solicitors representing accused wife murderer Gerard Baden-Clay.

On July 9, in a Queensland Civil and Administrative Tribunal, Mr Bosscher was granted a stay of the Law Society executive committee's recent decision to refuse his application to renew his practising certificate this year. But if his upcoming appeal in QCAT is unsuccessful, he will not be able to practise as a lawyer.

According to documents filed in QCAT, Mr Bosscher filed for bankruptcy on May 2. In a statement of affairs, he says partnership debts involved amounts owed to unsecured creditors, including barristers and the Australian Taxation Office

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...s-for-bankruptcy/story-e6freoof-1226431613334

What!!!!! :waitasec::waitasec: