Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #37

[Curiousasacat]

I was thinking NBC could have supplied the lime. I am sure he would have had experience with decomposing wildlife/roadkill in both Zim and Withcott.

On another note, hasn't there been mention of detective activity around a small bridge near a garden centre in Brookfield?

I assume lime would be kept in a shed? But I guess they wouldn't be looking for it the day after. Just my mind trailing.

 

[minni]

Thanks for this Makara...

So is this area where you took your mud shots from, Mani and Minni?

Thanks Makara, this is the picture I was searching for
I believe she was found lying IMMEDIATELY above where the stretcher is. It is the exact spot that I asked Mani to get more photos, the exact spot tht we stood and looked at (with the same tides It looks like and I will check as I have just posted tides for the day she was found and the day we first went there)
Also it is the spot that Makara first put up as where she believed Allison to be and others have since verified it (maybe not as fact, but enough for me)

Also, this is where, in the first video and photo footage when she was found, you see detectives leaning over the bridge, looking down at this precise spot

 

[minni]

I assume lime would be kept in a shed? But I guess they wouldn't be looking for it the day after. Just my mind trailing.

I always thought they were looking for bolt cutters or lack there of...but only because I believed the chain rumour

 

[Maigret]

I have another question regarding the boot of the car, that Mani brought up and made me think about. I think if I was going to take a dead body in my car through built up areas with lights etc, I would NOT put her in the boot of my car. I would put her in the back seat, lying down head up one end, feet up the other. and covered. Just in case, someone saw something, it might look like she was sleeping, or sick. And there was blood found near the door handle, I think, so this could be a possibility. It might be blood, or milk from a bottle, or another form of protein, or bleach even. They only had the car for 6 weeks, so it could be anything.

But in the boot, blood (or another form of protein) was found on the wheel hubs. I can imagine many things being spilt on the door handle, I mean, people spilt stuff all the time in the back of cars, but not so much in the boot on the wheel area. If the stains on the wheel area ARE blood, then he put her in the boot, not in the back seat, and he must have pushed her all the way in, near those wheel hubs, for blood to have leaked onto them. He would have (I believe) had to cover her up quite well if he chose to do this, so the boot would have been packed with stuff, like the toys?? and he would ahve had to cover her well.

Basically, what I mean is luminol shows something on the door handle in the back seat, and something in the boot. Allison's blood has been found in the car, so its one of these sites. Where did he put her to transport her? IN the boot? or in the back seat?

there are many reasons why protein will show up on the door handle, less reasons why it will in the boot. SO where do you all think he put her to move her? Or could it be both? in the boot to Kenmore, where his father says, ' you are an idiot' put her in the back seat?

Also, I still wonder whether he put her seat back into the correct position and her rearview mirror back into the correct position if he tried to claim she was the last to drive that car. Someone else drove her car that night

MOO MOO

I would have thought he would have put the seats down so it was one big space- sorry already covered

 

[possumheart]

If lime was put on the body to stop the smell there would have been some mummification of extremities in only a short time. This would have been detectable by forensics, despite rain washing the initial lime away.
The lime would constitute interference with a corpse.

 

[minni]

I would have thought he would have put the seats down so it was one big space- sorry already covered

don't be sorry I dont know why he needed that space, it is what I wondered about because she would have fit along the backseat no problem.

He must have thought about it differently, and used the boot. either way, it still leaves another piece of info about who he is

 

[minni]

If lime was put on the body to stop the smell there would have been some mummification of extremities in only a short time. This would have been detectable by forensics, despite rain washing the initial lime away.
The lime would constitute interference with a corpse.

Do you think that happened Possum?

 

[linette]

Thanks Poss, if they were folded, her head could easily have rested near the door handle, but at the end of the day, the blood found in the car that belonged to Allison could easily be in either location, door handle or wheel hub.


Why fold the seats down and put her in the boot? why not in the back seats? Unless there was a lot of blood, and she was wrapped up in a tarp or something and he didnt want to transfer evidence? Thinking from my own point of view, I would have put her in the back, but now, trying to think from his, I see it differently, and I sound uncaring talking like this, sorry if I offend, I am trying to understand where and why he moved her body in a particular spot, as opposed to another spo

maybe he might have thought the carpeted boot is easier to clean than seats that fluid could sink right into. He might have filled the boot FULL of things, toys etc, to look like there was a heap of stuff in there and put her at the bottom.

Not a nice thought, but if he did wrap her in a tarp, then I can see the boot being within his train of thought, not sure why, but it feels morbid to think about it, like a tarp wrapped 'item' should go in a boot for storage...yet a person goes into a seat, and he may not have been thinking about her as a person at this point, just as something that needed to be got rid of.

I know this sounds callous and awful, but his frame of mind at that point must have been, 'I have to get rid of this without making a mess'. I think with those thoughts in mind, he would use the boot.

I'm thinking also, that he may have thought it easier to get rid of boot lining etc, rather than try to hide blood from the seats. How could he explain a car with no back seat? Where as a boot liner "Yeah mate, we spilt oil on that a few weeks ago, had to throw the whole thing out."

Plus, as we know, he probably didn't have the same level of intelligence as some others do. :floorlaugh: He has done some really dumb things afterall.

 

[possumheart]

Do you think that happened Possum?

It makes sense to me.

 

[Thinking]

I've really enjoyed reading today's posts everyone, very interesting stuff, thanks!

I had a thought about the car(s) today - I recall in earlier threads someone said that the police would have been able to tell if the cars had been out in the early hours of Friday 20th, as the engine(s) may still have been warm when they turned up on Friday morning (or something to that effect, sorry I'm no car expert!).

I really, really, hope the police thought to check this.

 

[minni]

I'm thinking also, that he may have thought it easier to get rid of boot lining etc, rather than try to hide blood from the seats. How could he explain a car with no back seat? Where as a boot liner "Yeah mate, we spilt oil on that a few weeks ago, had to throw the whole thing out."

Plus, as we know, he probably didn't have the same level of intelligence as some others do. :floorlaugh: He has done some really dumb things afterall.

thats right, Lin, I forgot about the boot lining. It is far easier to explain a missing boot liner, than to try and clean up the back seats, it makes sense with how I felt about him regarding her as trash, something that will make a mess and must be got rid off...you wouldnt put that in the back seat would you? !!


Im sorry for talking so bluntly today, I am trying to think like he did

 

[Mani]

As someone who has spent a lot of time in gumboots walking round in similar mud (digging bait down in the mangroves when I was a kid), I can tell you that after about 2-3 steps you no longer have tread on your boots. They turn into about 1-2 inches of solid mud with no tread imprints under them.

Yes they do and they also become quite heavy.
Good point. There were a lot of footprints in the mud and I guess forensics would have made most of them??? MOO I agree with WS about the police not traipsing about in their shoes too.

 

[Rational]

It makes sense to me.

I agree Possum, that would tie in with the statements made by QPS and if Allison's body (still pains me to write that) was interfered with by lime and if she had a cover (plastic bag or something) over her head, that could mean that it would make sense that the only visible injury was a chipped tooth as anything else was affected by the lime.


Also thinking that, maybe, if the lime was the case, that a reaon for the plastic bag, if there was one, was to preserve Allison's face from being affected by the lime, not necessarily to depersonalise her. Sorry just thinking aloud here.

 

[minni]

I've really enjoyed reading today's posts everyone, very interesting stuff, thanks!

I had a thought about the car(s) today - I recall in earlier threads someone said that the police would have been able to tell if the cars had been out in the early hours of Friday 20th, as the engine(s) may still have been warm when they turned up on Friday morning (or something to that effect, sorry I'm no car expert!).

I really, really, hope the police thought to check this.

it may have been one of the reasons they were suspicious so early on, Thinking....apart from the DV rumours, the first officers to go to his house might have seen several things wrong with the cars, like warm enginges, just been cleaned, water pooling under them to indicate cleaning....maybe no leaves or no condensation on them... the toys in the boot

But, remember, there was a report that stated clearly (maybe the affidavit)
'when the police arrived, he offered information as to why he had scratches...BEFORE anyone ever even looked at them

 

[marlywings]

I haven't heard anything different Elspeth, so I'm assuming it will go ahead on Monday. I've sent a heads up to MSM about this and hopefully the Defence will reveal more of what the brief of evidence contains in the coming weeks. It is only another two weeks until the committal hearing on 3 September and hopefully it will not just be a mention. IMO Allison deserves justice as swiftly as possible.

Just another committal mention on 3rd September Makara. I don't think it'll get to the hearing until some time early next year. A while back I mentioned another high profile case which is nowhere near a hearing...the accused has been in prison for over 12months now. Also, Sica's case took around 8-9mths to get to a hearing.

July 09, 2012

Magistrate Callaghan ordered that the brief of evidence be handed to the defence by no later than August 20, except for the accountant's statement.

The matter will return to court on September 3 for a committal mention

http://www.news.com.au/national/pol...n-clays-finances/story-fndo4ckr-1226420987727

 

[Mani]

Apparently the soil under and around Allison's body was removed by forensics so IMO I don't think that there would be an impression of her body in the mud.

MOO.

That's right they need to take soil from around the body for testing apparently, however when you consider how long those foot imprints have stayed in the mud through many tidal influences, what made that outline? MOO

 

[Rational]

I've really enjoyed reading today's posts everyone, very interesting stuff, thanks!

I had a thought about the car(s) today - I recall in earlier threads someone said that the police would have been able to tell if the cars had been out in the early hours of Friday 20th, as the engine(s) may still have been warm when they turned up on Friday morning (or something to that effect, sorry I'm no car expert!).

I really, really, hope the police thought to check this.

Just from memory Thinking, I believe there was a discussion, but someone came up with some statistics or experiment that showed that the engine was cooled down after only an hour or so (cannot remember excat time) but it wasn't very long !!

 

[Mani]

I've really enjoyed reading today's posts everyone, very interesting stuff, thanks!

I had a thought about the car(s) today - I recall in earlier threads someone said that the police would have been able to tell if the cars had been out in the early hours of Friday 20th, as the engine(s) may still have been warm when they turned up on Friday morning (or something to that effect, sorry I'm no car expert!).

I really, really, hope the police thought to check this.

Yes, good point - I wonder how long a car takes to cool down and if there are tests for that based on ambient air temperature during the night etc.

Never thought about that but it is a valid point I believe IMO

 

[linette]

thats right, Lin, I forgot about the boot lining. It is far easier to explain a missing boot liner, than to try and clean up the back seats, it makes sense with how I felt about him regarding her as trash, something that will make a mess and must be got rid off...you wouldnt put that in the back seat would you? !!


Im sorry for talking so bluntly today, I am trying to think like he did

I don't think you're talking bluntly at all... the way she was treated is FACT !!! I know we don't know what happened, but the way she was treated is fact.
GBC is the one that reduced her from being a beautiful woman to a 'body'... not us. {I'm not implying that she is no longer beautiful, but you know what I mean.}

 

[minni]

help me out here....is this before Allison was winched up on the stretcher......have I been right all along? I dont see how her body is in the mud here?
could it be late in the afternoon, after she has been removed? the shadows look long
if so, then disregard what I asked
http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2012/04/30/1226342/954549-body-recovered.jpg