Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[they'll get you]

You know tgy, I think about what he said to those children about mummy falling down and hole and not coming back, and I just can't fathom why in heaven's name he would tell them that??? THEN, his blood relative, his own sister tells QPS that her brother told the children that? I cannot wrap my head around that, whichever way I turn it, let alone other things they have said/not said, done/not done in this case.
To me it seems they were both in very strange frames of mind at the same time, he telling the children (he shouldn't have said that) and OW telling QPS (she should've said that, but may be regretting it now).

You know its the "not coming back" bit that is highly suspicious I mean how would he know she's not coming back?? I mean that would be on the Police statement to be used in Court I would say? He told his children their mother would not be coming back. Point blank.

I just don't get it either? Why speak stupidity at such a pivotal & urgent moment, like focus please?even if he mucked around with the kids (??why would daddy say such a thing anyway especially if they had heard the argument??) why act so stupidly to a policeman? Allison was missing for Gods sake!!

In my opinion, in the lip biting vid she looked like a scared naughty girl thinking of answers.



I'm scared of saying what I feel cause I might get modsnipped and barred;(

 

[Zim]

According to family history records all offspring of NBC and EBC have spent time in the Australian Defence Force.
GBC spent three years with Australia Army Reserve as a training officer.

Yes, I knew they had Australian military connections.
I was just indicating that the family does not appear to have any African military experience...in all of their generations. Perhaps I was rather clumsy in the way I said it. Sorry about that. :blushing:

That being said I agree they did appear to have a plan and yes it did seem very military-like !

 

[Cyansea]

Understand tgy, fully understand
Yes, goodness me Constable Ash would have noted all the weird body language going on as well, and I'll leave it there for now as well, he he he.

 

[LadyBird1]

It is not the defence lawyer's job to consider the interests of the children or anyone else including other BCs. They only have their client's interests to serve within the rules of the court.

Thankyou Alioop.
It seems like everything now hinges on hard cold physical evidence.
I hope there is more than enough of that.
I also hope that the reason "sleuthers" are kept in the dark so to speak, is that 466 witness statements may be presented without bias, and each holding new "evidences".
I also recognize that just because "I can feel it in my bones", a court of Law doesn't operate on the bone's feelings.

 

[alioop]

Good post Ladybird, you have summarised the legal situation very well.

 

[Cyansea]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-face/story-e6freoof-1226537344568
Paragraphs below taken from the article which stood out re injuries.

<snipped by me>

Photographs of the prominent scratches are contained in a report by senior Queensland Health forensic medical officer Robert Hoskins, who was asked by police to comment on the facial injuries.

Mr Hoskins was provided with photographs of Baden-Clay taken at about 10am on April 20, the day he reported his wife missing, and the following day. He was also provided with images of the razor said to have been used by Baden-Clay.

The medical officer was asked to comment on the "possibility that they were caused by the use of a Gillette Mach III razor".

He relied on information that Baden-Clay woke at 6.15am, could not have shaved earlier and "is said to have used a blunt razor hastily".

The injuries appeared to have been caused "between about 6 and about 24 hours earlier" than the photographs taken on the 20th April.

"This means it is highly unlikely that they occurred after 6.15am," he wrote in a July 19 report.

<snipped by me>

 

[Cyansea]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...baden-clays-face/story-e6freoof-1226537344568

<snipped by me>

Constable Ash asked Baden-Clay how he came to get the scratches on his face, the statement says.

"He said 'I cut myself shaving this morning as I was in a hurry, trying to get the girls ready'," the documents say.

Inside the house Constable Ash "could not see any evidence of tissues, towels or blood that was consistent with Gerard previously stating that the scratches on his face was a shaving cut he had received that morning".

Outside the house, Constable Ash made a phone call to a senior officer and said he was "uncomfortable with the version" Baden-Clay had offered, the statement says.

Two senior officers arrived at 8.45am and began talking to Baden-Clay, whose sister Ms Walton returned to the home.

"I asked her what the girls had been told this morning," Constable Ash said.

"She said 'that Gerard told the girls shortly after 6am that mummy had gone for a walk and probably fell down a hole (and) would not be back'."

<modsnip>

 

[Liadan]

After being incredibly curious of the time line occurring just prior and during the initial police investigation I have put together a bit of an updated list. I have separated the people out - it is easier to see the gaps in what they were doing. Apologies if this seems like it has been done before but I wanted it to be individual time lines and get the whole picture of what each was doing that morning. We really don't have much idea of the family members but GBC's time line is getting quite full! Everything should be in MSM as I got most of the info from the Timeline thread here on WS.



OW:-
-OW took the girls to school that Friday morning and had been present at cross country the previous day when GBC was attacked by caterpillars
-OW, the girls Aunty, (who is a mother of her own children) and who proclaimed to love her sister in law dearly expected those 3 girls to go to school with the knowledge that their mum might never return - WTF?

Where was OW between the cross country and taking the kids to school?

-TM:-
-TM had a conference the day ABC went missing (did she attend?)
-TM possibly did not want ABC at the conference as she asked GBC to confront ABC about it

ABC:- not so much a timeline but a collection of notes sorry! Very little on Allisons timeline in the media.
- Allison was taking medication for depression
- ABC and GBC were seeing a counsellor
-Allison kept a diary recording her dismay at being unloved and cheated on
-Allison&#8217;s had hair done at hairdressers for conference said she was unlikely to walk after having her hair done (6:30 pm Thursday nite finish)
ABC speaks to best friend over phone and says she will drop in on Friday after Pathways conference
-Allison went for a walk at 10pm-Not a regular walker at night or in the morning
-ABC had a real estate conference the day she was reported missing
-ABC knew GBC was seeing TM &#8211; this was not a new development
-Allison went for a walk at 6am
7:00 am Allison was planning to leave for conference




GBC:-
-18 April at Cross Country &#8211; got caterpillar bites (OW attended)
-injuries to his right palm (lightbulb injury refuted) perhaps bite marks from covering a mouth

-8:29 GBC? put phone charging
-8:45 phone removed from charging
-last saw Allison watching the footy show
-Allison went for a walk at 10pm
-10pm GBC went to bed &#8211; last time he saw Allison
Muffled screams heard by neighbours and Scraps the dog barking
-11pm and 4:30 am police ask about the roundabout at Kenmore Village
-1:48am phone reconnected to charger
-GBC woke at 6:00 ish and found ABC missing
-Shortly after 6am (OW claims) that GBC had told the girls that Allison had fallen down a hole and would not be back
-6:18 phone removed from charger
-6:20 &#8216;Hope you slept well none of the girls up yet&#8217; text sent to Allison
-6:30 told OW of Allisons walking route
-6:41 Next text to ABC 2 girls are up, getting worried.
-7:00 am Allison was planning to leave for conference
-7:09 search of self incrimination- not valid here to this time scenario
-7:14 Police missing person website checked
-7:15 GBC called police at reporting Allison missing
-8:00 am police arrive at residence
-police notice facial scratches on GBC
-9:43 Psychiatrists searched in Brisbane west
-9:45 senior officers arrive
OW returns to GBC house


-GBC lawyered up (e.g. at what stage did Jill Meaghre&#8217;s hubby get a lawyer?)
-(NBC ?was he at GBC's house when police arrived?)
-GBC claims he is a heavy sleeper &#8211; but possibly awake to call NBC during the nite
-Captiva (ABC&#8217;s car) traces of blood



Again apologies if this is repetitive.

 

[Couldbe]

After being incredibly curious of the time line occurring just prior and during the initial police investigation I have put together a bit of an updated list. I have separated the people out - it is easier to see the gaps in what they were doing. Apologies if this seems like it has been done before but I wanted it to be individual time lines and get the whole picture of what each was doing that morning. We really don't have much idea of the family members but GBC's time line is getting quite full! Everything should be in MSM as I got most of the info from the Timeline thread here on WS.



OW:-
-OW took the girls to school that Friday morning and had been present at cross country the previous day when GBC was attacked by caterpillars
-OW, the girls Aunty, (who is a mother of her own children) and who proclaimed to love her sister in law dearly expected those 3 girls to go to school with the knowledge that their mum might never return - WTF?

Where was OW between the cross country and taking the kids to school?

-TM:-
-TM had a conference the day ABC went missing (did she attend?)
-TM possibly did not want ABC at the conference as she asked GBC to confront ABC about it

ABC:- not so much a timeline but a collection of notes sorry! Very little on Allisons timeline in the media.
- Allison was taking medication for depression
- ABC and GBC were seeing a counsellor
-Allison kept a diary recording her dismay at being unloved and cheated on
-Allison&#8217;s had hair done at hairdressers for conference said she was unlikely to walk after having her hair done (6:30 pm Thursday nite finish)
ABC speaks to best friend over phone and says she will drop in on Friday after Pathways conference
-ABC had a real estate conference the day she was reported missing
-ABC knew GBC was seeing TM &#8211; this was not a new development
-Not a regular walker at night or in the morning



GBC:-
-18 April at Cross Country &#8211; got caterpillar bites (OW attended)
-injuries to his right palm (lightbulb injury refuted) perhaps bite marks from covering a mouth

-8:29 GBC? put phone charging
-8:45 phone removed from charging
-last saw Allison watching the footy show
-Allison went for a walk at 10pm
-10pm GBC went to bed &#8211; last time he saw Allison
Muffled screams heard by neighbours and Scraps the dog barking
-11pm and 4:30 am police ask about the roundabout at Kenmore Village
-1:48am phone reconnected to charger
-GBC woke at 6:00 ish and found ABC missing
-Shortly after 6am (OW claims) that GBC had told the girls that Allison had fallen down a hole and would not be back
-6:18 phone removed from charger
-6:20 &#8216;Hope you slept well none of the girls up yet&#8217; text sent to Allison
-6:30 told OW of Allisons walking route
-6:41 Next text to ABC 2 girls are up, getting worried.
-7:00 am Allison was planning to leave for conference
-7:09 search of self incrimination- not valid here to this time scenario
-7:14 Police missing person website checked
-7:15 GBC called police at reporting Allison missing
-8:00 am police arrive at residence
-police notice facial scratches on GBC
-9:43 Psychiatrists searched in Brisbane west
-9:45 senior officers arrive
OW returns to GBC house


-GBC lawyered up (e.g. at what stage did Jill Meaghre&#8217;s hubby get a lawyer?)
-(NBC ?was he at GBC's house when police arrived?)
-GBC claims he is a heavy sleeper &#8211; but possibly awake to call NBC during the nite
-Captiva (ABC&#8217;s car) traces of blood

Liadan - if truthful and correct answers to the questions that you ask were provided to the Police (and one would think that they too would find them useful in their investigations), they would go a long way to helping piece together the series of events).
The problem is that any answers so far given have been inconsistent and confusing. Of course, we websleuthers are limited to logic and rumours.
Gerard is still being held by Police ........ so the 'answers' seem to have supported the case against him.
Were there any accomplices? .... they are most likely still working on that!

Wish Allison's I-phone would turn up.... still could!

 

[ollijack]

Liadan. Thankyou for that. Brilliant xxxxxx

 

[LadyBird1]

You know tgy, I think about what he said to those children about mummy falling down and hole and not coming back, and I just can't fathom why in heaven's name he would tell them that??? THEN, his blood relative, his own sister tells QPS that her brother told the children that? I cannot wrap my head around that, whichever way I turn it, let alone other things they have said/not said, done/not done in this case.
To me it seems they were both in very strange frames of mind at the same time, he telling the children (he shouldn't have said that) and OW telling QPS (she should've said that, but may be regretting it now).

You know its the "not coming back" bit that is highly suspicious I mean how would he know she's not coming back?? I mean that would be on the Police statement to be used in Court I would say? He told his children their mother would not be coming back. Point blank.

You are not alone with your thoughts Cyansea.

"I asked her what the girls had been told this morning," Constable Ash said.

"She said 'that Gerard told the girls shortly after 6am that mummy had gone for a walk and probably fell down a hole (and) would not be back'."

I have looked at these words every which way including twisting turning and allowing for slips in grammar and mis-hearing some words.
And I wonder at the dreadful bluntness, the absurdity of the words. So FINAL. So cruel. For the life of me, I can not get my head around those words.

Eventually, I have come to translate the words simply as this:
"Run along now kiddies. Nothing serious here. No need to worry. Everything's under control. Off to school for you."

All this at 06.00am
In the presence of OW.
Before any text messages were sent.
Before checking computer for incidentals; self incrimination, missing persons.
Before calling the police.

Then, to add to the cruelty, the children were later encouraged to draw pictures.

"They drew her with her long red hair inside the shape of a heart.
They drew flowers and in the petals they wrote messages for her: "I love you mummy." "Come home." "Your awsom mum."

On the one hand she was not coming home. Full stop.
On the other hand she might be coming home.

Terribly Cruel.
Terribly mixed up.
Terribly sleep deprived. Not suggesting same, but reminded me of my state of mind after Night Duty work. (Slightly off in the clouds)

 

[Couldbe]

Really blows your mind when you try to imagine this occurring.

Denotes cold and callous personalities who seem far removed from what has actually occurred ....... Allison's disappearance/murder.
Or, just trying to remain calm ....... very, very, very 'calm' .. under the 'circumstances'.

We have seen more of this bizarre behaviour .... even if it was through the telescopic lens of a camera.

The Baden-Clay family may try to explain that at that stage, they thought that Allison had just taken off somewhere / and would be back soon.......but when after nearly two weeks her body was found out at Kholo Creek, they did not convey to the Media that they were distraught that she was dead......not the way they had wanted 'her returned' to them....whether or not they thought that Gerard was under suspicion.

 

[Thinking]

Thanks liadan, it is interesting to see it all set out in a timeline.

I'm sure I read in the media after the recent bail hearing that both NBC and OW were there when the police turned up, or at least NBC had been there earlier? I think gbc himself may have mentioned it in his initial call to police?

Also, I don't think Jill Meaghers husband lawyered up at all, did he?

 

[LadyBird1]

This doesn't make sense to me, why oh why would an intelligent adult (in her right mind) tell the police this at such an important time? But lucky she did!

Two senior officers arrived at 8.45am and began talking to Baden-Clay, whose sister Ms Walton returned to the home.

"I asked her what the girls had been told this morning," Constable Ash said.

"She said 'that Gerard told the girls shortly after 6am that mummy had gone for a walk and probably fell down a hole (and) would not be back'."

Doh

I don't want to be the one to say this or get snipped but:
If OW was at the home at 06.00am
Did she spend the night there?

What I mean to say is this; being as brother G slept so soundly from 10.00pm watching footy until 06.15am
And the children have received a quick 06.00am debrief
And Allison isn't even missing yet....
WTF has she been doing?
Cutting school lunches all night?

 

[Couldbe]

Thanks liadan, it is interesting to see it all set out in a timeline.

I'm sure I read in the media after the recent bail hearing that both NBC and OW were there when the police turned up, or at least NBC had been there earlier? I think gbc himself may have mentioned it in his initial call to police?

Also, I don't think Jill Meaghers husband lawyered up at all, did he?

I don't want to be the one to say this or get snipped but:
If OW was at the home at 06.00am
Did she spend the night there?

What I mean to say is this; being as brother G slept so soundly from 10.00pm watching footy until 06.15am
And the children have received a quick 06.00am debrief
And Allison isn't even missing yet....
WTF has she been doing?
Cutting school lunches all night?

Certainly does not add up!!!!!!! You have to wonder how she can defend Gerard against the charge and seek funds from 'friends' and others for lawyers to act in proving his 'innocence'. (Could it be that she knows that it wasn't murder, but .......)
The truth of what happened is in there ....... and, more than just Olivia, are concentrating on this truth (or not) ....... so be it, for different reasons.

 

[Zim]

The other day there was a discussion about 'stairs'....
Here are some (scroll down whole article)

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...rder-intensifies/story-e6freoof-1226345241012

 

[Oz Jen]

Something has been haunting me ever since MSM released Allison's diary notes.

Her use of the word "afterwards."

Whilst some have thought it may be in reference to after GBC told her about the affair, I have always taken it to be a sexual reference.

"Drive together - seats down - lie there (sic) afterwards." I take 'afterwards' here to mean after TM and GBC did their thing. (Sorry, yeah, I know...visual ...yuck!)

Earlier entry using 'afterwards' again...

"Afterwards why so mean"
- laughed at undies"
-'Told me I smelled"

- I take this then to be after a physical marital encounter. So...was he still doing his 'thing' with his wife (sorry TM...and others)...all along - but justifying by putting his wife down 'afterwards' and letting her know she was so very 'different' from TM - afterwards, with a laugh??

Poor Allison! How very sad! This is extreme emotional manipulation by a narcissist and expert gaslighter.

Jeez GBC must be some kinda stud. Not.

 

[Maigret]

Something has been haunting me ever since MSM released Allison's diary notes.

Her use of the word "afterwards."

Whilst some have thought it may be in reference to after GBC told her about the affair, I have always taken it to be a sexual reference.

"Drive together - seats down - lie there (sic) afterwards." I take 'afterwards' here to mean after TM and GBC did their thing. (Sorry, yeah, I know...visual ...yuck!)

Earlier entry using 'afterwards' again...

"Afterwards why so mean"
- laughed at undies"
-'Told me I smelled"

- I take this then to be after a physical marital encounter. So...was he still doing his 'thing' with his wife (sorry TM...and others)...all along - but justifying by putting his wife down 'afterwards' and letting her know she was so very 'different' from TM - afterwards, with a laugh??

Poor Allison! How very sad! This is extreme emotional manipulation by a narcissist and expert gaslighter.

Jeez GBC must be some kinda stud. Not.

Makes me cry

 

[Liadan]

The other day there was a discussion about 'stairs'....
Here are some (scroll down whole article)

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...rder-intensifies/story-e6freoof-1226345241012

Zim those stairs are at the front of the house and lead to the front door, yard and garage.(You see the Jasmine climbing over the railing. I haven't seen any picture of stairs at the back of that house that I know of - would love a few better snaps of the backyard!!!)

 

[they'll get you]

Possibly GBC was gaining power the more Allison hurt and with that became a monster. JMO
I feel those diary notes were written when lonely and in deep despair. I hope someone else knew her sadness, just waiting now for statements to up in court.

If/When they did the deed in the (whose car) did they have covers/blankets? It was the middle of winter! Was it those covers that Allison was transportedcovered in on that night? Now there's a sad thought