Amanda Knox tried for the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy *NEW TRIAL*#11

[otto]

What is the context for the mention of the film? Is Crini perhaps demonstrating various scenarios, such that even if there is substance to the Naruto film, it does not preclude the participation of Knox and Sollecito in the murder?

My understanding from your above comment was that Crini absolutely stated that the film was watched and that the pair left the apartment at 9:30. At the same time, from what little I know of the proseuction statements, it seems to me that the comments are more a response to props that the defense has offered in defense. That is, the prosecution looks at the various scenarios and follows them through to a conclusion, in this case, I suspect that the conclusion is that even if they watched the film, they could still be involved in the murder.

I do see a lot of "let's suppose", or "let's say" from the prosecutor.

 

[redheadedgal]

I recall from another case I read about, that experts said that determining time of death by stomach contents was an unreliable method, and lacking in precision (the deudonum would be an extension of this I would assume, because it is right outside the stomach, as the entrance into the intestine).

See this abstract below, especially the bolded (bbm):

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2929541

this was a 1989 study -- almost 25 years ago.

i was always taught in uni to cite sources within the last 10 years... has that changed?

NOTE: Original primary sources should be as current as possible (e.g., within the last 5-10 years). Where an original primary source is older than 10 years, it often lacks up-to-date information. Check to see if you can find a more recent article, or consult with your tutor about the article's suitability.

http://psych.athabascau.ca/html/APA6/sources.html

 

[aa9511]

I cant believe what's been written on here the last few pages.

Roommate Robbery Prank - YouTube

Did this prank involve knives? No. Did the prank actually really even happen? Only partly. Did the person find out about the prank before actually going into the room? Yes. Did the people thsmselves actually really scare him? No.

That is totally different....the entire prank did not even happen, the guy found about it!

Plus, look at how scare he was just seeing the things tossed around, and he is a guy. Imagine how scared Meredith would have been, perhaps walking into her room and 3 people armed with knives and faces covered in some kind of masks, in the dark, must have scared her.

 

[aa9511]

sorry, this is not true. the innocent side has not "ignored" the cell phone issue. it has been said that amanda turned hers off b/c she didn't want PL to call her into work if he realized he needed her. plus, they wanted to be alone together... i've turned my phone off for that reason waay too many times to count

Sorry, I disagree, it has been ignored. Two people suspected of a murder, turn their phones off for many hours the night of the murder - and we are supposed to believe that is purely by chance.

Do you have any information on how many times, let's say in the 3 months before the murder, Raffale turned his cell phone off for so many hours (individually) and Amanda turned hers off for so many hours (individually). I would venture to say that the answer is a big resounding ZERO.

The innocent side, it was of course, very convenient for them to ignore it.

For the guilty side, they couldn't fit it into the equation before finding out the motive.

Thus, the innocent side happily tossed it aside.

 

[aa9511]

Thanks. I would agree. Everything that has been discussed seems to click into place like two perfectly aligned rotating gears with Knox's admission that, for kicks, she likes to traumatize roommates by staging a burglary and home invasion. The only other case where I've read about a similar treatment of roommates is Russell Williams. When he was in University, he did the same thing to roommates. Essentially, he traumatized others for his amusement by breaking-in and scaring people. He also asked friends to participate in his "pranks". When he was in his 50s, he was convicted of violently torturing women before murdering them.

If the conviction is upheld, we know that the Italians mean business in terms of seeing this through to its logical conclusion. US law should not apply to a murder in Italy, so I don't think that Knox can avoid extradition, but that remains to be seen.

Well, the innocent side is of course ignoring all this prank business.

I would like to know if any of them will believe Amanda if she ever confesses to the murder?

 

[aa9511]

And with that interaction acknowledged, the TOD problem gets more acute for the prosecution. Several independent lines of evidence put the TOD as no later than about 10 PM, and we know from Ms. Popovic that Amanda was behaving normally as of roughly 8:30. There is not enough time for the pair to get wasted, somehow bump into Rudy, and commit this crime in a narrow window of time. MOO.

What are you talking about, no time? Conveniently for innocent side, since we didn't know of the prank, we had to take extra time to get them hanging out and wasted with Rudy.

Now we know that extra time was not needed.

They had already planned the prank, for whenever they got a chance. With Jovana cancelling, Amanda no longer at work, they had a chance and they took it. Turned cell phones off.

It was a prank gone wrong. No extra time needed.

 

[aa9511]

Sollecito's apartment is five minutes from the cottage, and Knox knew where Guede hung out. How is one and a half hours not enough time to get together, get stoned and pull one of Knox's pranks?

I don't think they even had to get stoned together. They could have already planned the prank before and talked about it, so they already knew the plan.

If they had planned it for Halloween night, maybe the reason Amanda was calling Meredith so many times, then they must have already recruited Rudy for the prank.

All they had to do was go get him from the basketball courts.

He always had his pocket knife with him anyway, right?

 

[aa9511]

Too bad it wasn't disputed in court by the prosecution.

Oh riiighhttt. Just like the staged burglary wasn't disputed by the defense.

 

[aa9511]

You got the time wrong. That's half an hour taking the times agreed in court by the prosecution (9:26pm interaction on Raffaele's computer, 10pm suspicious activity on Meredith's phone, 10:13pm Meredith's phone is away, connecting to a distant cell tower).

And it works only if Meredith somehow got home and didn't try to call her mother again (the first call before 9pm failed), didn't change clothes, didn't empty the washing machine, didn't do anything at all.

A prank like the one Amanda described would require Meredith to be away. She came home at 9, while Amanda and Raffaele were at his place.

Would require her to be away? She was away. She came back at 9.

 

[aa9511]

1. No one disputes Guede used the toilet. He was there at the crime scene and he did use the toilet.

2. We don't know for a fact that he scaled a tall wall, using the window grating as steps - it is conjecture. Postal Police, Napaleoni, Micheli, Massei, all ruled that the burglary was staged.

3. Did you know that home security systems professionals will tell you, one of the most common ways for burglars to enter a home is by throwing a rock - often from the victim's own patio or garden - through a window? It is not specific to Guede!

Robert James Neese broke into hundreds of homes using rocks to smash windows; they nick-named him "the Rock Burglar".

In this video, it takes a young boy seconds to break into a restaurant by throwing a rock through the window.

Nerdy Looking Teen Smashes Window With Rock Then Breaks Into Restaurant CAUGHT ON TAPE - YouTube

I believe even Amanda and RS could have come up with the idea of throwing a rock to break a window.

 

[aa9511]

1. No one disputes Guede used the toilet. He was there at the crime scene and he did use the toilet.

2. We don't know for a fact that he scaled a tall wall, using the window grating as steps - it is conjecture. Postal Police, Napaleoni, Micheli, Massei, all ruled that the burglary was staged.

3. Did you know that home security systems professionals will tell you, one of the most common ways for burglars to enter a home is by throwing a rock - often from the victim's own patio or garden - through a window? It is not specific to Guede!

Robert James Neese broke into hundreds of homes using rocks to smash windows; they nick-named him "the Rock Burglar".

In this video, it takes a young boy seconds to break into a restaurant by throwing a rock through the window.

Nerdy Looking Teen Smashes Window With Rock Then Breaks Into Restaurant CAUGHT ON TAPE - YouTube

Also, let's ask any 5 year old what would you use to break a window, and let's see what they say.

 

[aa9511]

The goal of the climb was not to sit on the ledge but open the window and go inside. That had been demonstrated sufficiently. Of course you and others are free to believe the British TV station is on Amanda's PR Supertanker payroll, along with the Perugian doctor who did the climb and gave his informed opinion that it would be easy for anyone to do.

He climbed to the lawyers window using bars below it, just like at the cottage. The climb was demonstrated as easy, Filomena's window was hidden from view.

But yes, I can understand how people can convince themselves something much more complicated and unusual happened, not just a simple burglary. That's understandable.

It's not more complicated. It's just a prank.

 

[aa9511]

There are two strong, independent lines of evidence: the various activities related to Meredith's cellphones (briefly summarized earlier today) and the lack of anything in Meredith's duodenum. The hypothesis that nothing will pass into the duodenum in 5.5 hours (Mignini and Massei are responsible for this idea) is close to impossible. Beyond those two, there are all of the things that Meredith did not do but would have been expected to do upon her arrival home, such as call her mother again, remove her jacket, sent texts or emails, attend to damp laundry, etc.

Ok, they are either waiting for her in the cottage when she comes home, or they get there soon after and prank her. There. Now there is nothing to argue about time-wise.

I do not buy the computer activity story at such and such time and such and such time. That is just like trying to convince me over and over of the staged burglary - if I was listening to just one side, I would believe it too! But there is not one side.

 

[aa9511]

When taken isolated it may be accidental. We need to look at the evidence globally. There is one "accidental call", another cancelled call, and minutes later the phone connects to a very distant tower receiving an MMS. It happens that the distant tower is optimal for the Parco Sant'Angelo, a location on the way to Guede place, dark and empty during the cold November night.

An unusual coincidence, or a meaningful evidence telling a certain story?

Isn't "on the way to Guede place" also "on the way to Raffaele's place"??

 

[MichaelSmith]

Sorry, I disagree, it has been ignored. Two people suspected of a murder, turn their phones off for many hours the night of the murder - and we are supposed to believe that is purely by chance.

Do you have any information on how many times, let's say in the 3 months before the murder, Raffale turned his cell phone off for so many hours (individually) and Amanda turned hers off for so many hours (individually). I would venture to say that the answer is a big resounding ZERO.

The innocent side, it was of course, very convenient for them to ignore it.

For the guilty side, they couldn't fit it into the equation before finding out the motive.

Thus, the innocent side happily tossed it aside.

3 months? They'd only been dating 6-7 days.

Why would they turn their phones off anyways? Wouldn't it have been better to leave them on but turn the ringer off to set up an alibi they never left? They're suppose to be absolutely diabolical with all the cleaning and staging and acting capable of fooling a world famous former FBI profiler and ex FBI agent Steve Moore, along with their friends and families and all the experts who have studied the case and said they're innocent.

 

[redheadedgal]

Sorry, I disagree, it has been ignored. Two people suspected of a murder, turn their phones off for many hours the night of the murder - and we are supposed to believe that is purely by chance.

Do you have any information on how many times, let's say in the 3 months before the murder, Raffale turned his cell phone off for so many hours (individually) and Amanda turned hers off for so many hours (individually). I would venture to say that the answer is a big resounding ZERO.

how many times in the last 3 months did amanda and raff date each other?

and then there's this:

Definition of coincidence (n)

Bing Dictionary
co·in·ci·dence
[ kō ínssidənss ]

1. chance happening: something that happens by chance in a surprising or remarkable way
2. happening without planning: the fact of happening by chance
3. having identical features: the fact or condition of happening at the same time or place or being identical

Synonyms: concurrence, correspondence, correlation, agreement, relationship, link

I believe even Amanda and RS could have come up with the idea of throwing a rock to break a window.

do you really think amanda would chose to break FR's window and later deal with the wrath of all the recently acquainted roommates (and landlord), the cost and effort to repair the window, the effects of cold weather until fixed, the lack of safety of the whole cottage (both flats) until fixed, ALL FOR A PRANK??!

(this prank theory is boggling my mind !!)

 

[MichaelSmith]

Did this prank involve knives? No. Did the prank actually really even happen? Only partly. Did the person find out about the prank before actually going into the room? Yes. Did the people thsmselves actually really scare him? No.

That is totally different....the entire prank did not even happen, the guy found about it!

Plus, look at how scare he was just seeing the things tossed around, and he is a guy. Imagine how scared Meredith would have been, perhaps walking into her room and 3 people armed with knives and faces covered in some kind of masks, in the dark, must have scared her.

I can't imagine Meredith walking into her room where 3 people armed with knives wearing masks awaited her because that is fantasy not supported by any evidence.

 

[aa9511]

how many times in the last 3 months did amanda and raff date each other?

and then there's this:



do you really think amanda would chose to break FR's window and later deal with the wrath of all the recently acquainted roommates (and landlord), the cost and effort to repair the window, the effects of cold weather until fixed, the lack of safety of the whole cottage (both flats) until fixed, ALL FOR A PRANK??!

(this is boggling my mind !!)

<modsnip> I wasn't talking about the prank. I was saying that to stage the burglary, it doesn't take a genius to figure out to throw a rock to break a window.

Katody was saying that we have to connect Rudy to the window because he used rock to break the window in his last break-in.

I was saying that it is not that hard to come up with using a rock to break a window, even Amanda and RS could have thought of that (TO BREAK THE WINDOW IN THE STAGED BURGLARY BY THROWING A ROCK.

 

[aa9511]

3 months? They'd only been dating 6-7 days.

Why would they turn their phones off anyways? Wouldn't it have been better to leave them on but turn the ringer off to set up an alibi they never left? They're suppose to be absolutely diabolical with all the cleaning and staging and acting capable of fooling a world famous former FBI profiler and ex FBI agent Steve Moore, along with their friends and families and all the experts who have studied the case and said they're innocent.

What? No, they were not setting out to go to murder Meredith.

All they were going to do is prank her.

Why would they leave their phones at home, when they were probably going to go out somewhere after the prank?

They were only planning to prank her, what is the big deal to leave your phones at home?

Not vibrate, you can still here vibrate, the whole point was to stay quiet in the house so Meredith didn't hear them. I can hear my phone vibrate in a totally silent room

 

[aa9511]

I can't imagine Meredith walking into her room where 3 people armed with knives wearing masks awaited her because that is fantasy not supported by any evidence.

What is not supported by evidence? What evidence would there be in that case, I mean evidence of the prank? Do you expect a video?

There is evidence of the killing. And knives being used.

Precisely the fact that a prank doesn't leave evidence that they had the world fooled for so long.