Armchair Psych discussion of Jodi Arias

[lil_buddy]

Does anyone know if alice L has seen crime photos of Travis. I would hope so it may give her some insight. She may see that the Pendulum of dangerous violent abuse swings to Jodi not Travis

she testified that she did

 

[Woe.be.gone]

thank you yes i was IMAGINING how it must have sucked to be Jodi at 27.
My life was going great at age 27th.

It took me a little longer to be able to say that my life was great after I had been mowed down by my love interest who had burst my bubble as to having the love story my mother and father have and share to this day. One has to have a willing partner you know? The best medicine for me was to take steps outside of the happily ever after fairy tale that girls are fed from a very young age, and begin concentrating on and building my own strengths. That process involved; enrolling in college, completing a two year degree and then a four year degree, all the while staying employed in one form or another to support my goals. Also I quit drinking alcohol as it acted as a depressant to me. My decision making improved as a result too. Also I turned to God but not to please a man but because I needed Him in my life. The foundation had been layed through Sunday school when I was a child. I began these efforts at around age twenty-four. As I accomplished different goals, my esteem rose accordingly. Each year I layed new, better tracks down for myself by myself and I'd say my inner and outer person came together best by the time I was thirty. By then, I had my thinking cap on and engaged. Everyone is different. Despite being a late bloomer, I had good parents who, if anything can be said that's negative about them, (not sure if this is even the right way to express it), but they're kind of simple (not simple minded) in that they're easily satisfied. One of my dad's favorite sayings is, "If you expect nothing from anybody, you're never disappointed." He is self sufficient, loyal and kind; he appreciates what he has and what's offered to him. He entertains himself but will ready himself to be my/our companion too. He'll be turning eighty-eight years old soon. Another thing we can do is learn to focus on the positive features of our lives, not only what's negative. Some of us lean naturally one way or the other and may not realize our habit of negative thinking.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think that she was already that over-processed bleached blonde when she met Travis. Yes I recall that she was living with Darryl as a blonde & got the fake *advertiser censored* then too - maybe in 2005. Darryl paid for the bad boob job.

Afterall, JA lived in California - the land of cosmetic surgery and forever young fantasy images.
Look at people like Joan Rivers and Barbara Walters (nothing against them) - they both actually look prettier now than they did when they were fifty imo. Go figure!

Young ladies are getting botox in their twenties these days!

I wouldn't read too much into hair color choices and the like. Most women like to be considered attractive to men and other women too.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I think her visit to the other guy (what was his name? Ryan?) was just a ruse, an excuse to visit Travis. As usual, I think she allowed Travis to believe she was just out on a lark, up for fun, when in reality this visit to Travis meant the world to her, and she was desperate to win him back.

Its now been said that he had taken her name off the Cancun trip and replaced it with Mimi's (who told Travis, ironically, that she only wanted to be friends. How odd that the women he pursued such as Mimi and Lisa seemed rejecting of him (Lisa did not want to marry him; Mimi said she would go to Cancun but not as a date, only as a friend) while the one woman who was obsessed with him left him indifferent.

Some have suggested that since Jodi bought 2 bottles of sunblock on her trip, that she believed either a. that she was still booked or b. that she could convince him to still take her. No doubt, this was the catalyst.

Thanks for answering my questions. So, the belief is that JA was trying to make TA jealous through her appearing to be starting up with Ryan? She did end up there albeit a day late.

So, we don't know for sure if JA had hopes she could still go to Cancun with TA? We know for certain that TA ousted JA from the trip?

What was said during the almost hour long (in two calls) conversation that took place on June 2, Travis being the one who placed those calls to JA?

If I'm trying to connect these dots in order to complete the picture of what happened between TA and JA in the days leading up to June 4, maybe the jurors will want to too.

 

[SMK]

Thanks for answering my questions. So, the belief is that JA was trying to make TA jealous through her appearing to be starting up with Ryan? She did end up there albeit a day late.

So, we don't know for sure if JA had hopes she could still go to Cancun with TA? We know for certain that TA ousted JA from the trip?

What was said during the almost hour long (in two calls) conversation that took place on June 2, Travis being the one who placed those calls to JA?

If I'm trying to connect these dots in order to complete the picture of what happened between TA and JA in the days leading up to June 4, maybe the jurors will want to too.

I think hooking up with the guy was an excuse to look happy-go-lucky "dropping in" on Travis - the guy later became part of a (failed) post-murder alibi......I think we can infer that she still had hopes. I too wish I knew what those calls consisted of.....how much Travis did/did not want her coming to see him....

 

[Woe.be.gone]

It took me a little longer to be able to say that my life was great after I had been mowed down by my love interest who had burst my bubble as to having the love story my mother and father have and share to this day. One has to have a willing partner you know? The best medicine for me was to take steps outside of the happily ever after fairy tale that girls are fed from a very young age, and begin concentrating on and building my own strengths. That process involved; enrolling in college, completing a two year degree and then a four year degree, all the while staying employed in one form or another to support my goals. Also I quit drinking alcohol as it acted as a depressant to me. My decision making improved as a result too. Also I turned to God but not to please a man but because I needed Him in my life. The foundation had been layed through Sunday school when I was a child. I began these efforts at around age twenty-four. As I accomplished different goals, my esteem rose accordingly. Each year I layed new, better tracks down for myself by myself and I'd say my inner and outer person came together best by the time I was thirty. By then, I had my thinking cap on and engaged. Everyone is different. Despite being a late bloomer, I had good parents who, if anything can be said that's negative about them, (not sure if this is even the right way to express it), but they're kind of simple (not simple minded) in that they're easily satisfied. One of my dad's favorite sayings is, "If you expect nothing from anybody, you're never disappointed." He is self sufficient, loyal and kind; he appreciates what he has and what's offered to him. He entertains himself but will ready himself to be my/our companion too. He'll be turning eighty-eight years old soon. Another thing we can do is learn to focus on the positive features of our lives, not only what's negative. Some of us lean naturally one way or the other and may not realize our habit of negative thinking.

Sorry to go on and on and to quote myself but I need to add something and have shared this story before. It is, that despite my father being fair minded and good, he once said to me, "you're only average". I was in my teens and people would often say to me, "you should be a model", emphasis on outer beauty. I was only 5'7" but back then, since I had been that height since age twelve, people considered that tall for a girl.

My father was a commercial artist and saw first hand how models could be treated. They'd come into the studio and upon leaving, men would make derogatory comments about them. But did I know any of this background to explain his comment? No, of course not. Those words, out of my own father's mouth, went into my mind and heart and did not serve me productively as he had intended them too. He explained later that he didn't want me to become conceited. Duh dad! He also apologized to me for his poor choice of words but, of course, that was years later.

My point is that sometimes the simplest remark, depending on who says it, can make the strongest impression either positively or negatively on its recipient.

It's hard for me to imagine what happens to children who have to put up with severe abuse, sexual abuse and/or boundary crossing regarding that, mothers who don't speak up and defend their children, children who feel they are invisible or not as good as their siblings, etc. A man I know told me the other day that he was hit almost everyday of his life while his siblings were helplessly standing by. Sometimes he was hit because of what one of them did. He's fifty years old and just coming to grips with feelings about this abuse now. When he was telling me about this, I was listening to his child self and I cried. He couldn't see this because we were on the phone. He is accepting that he was a victim of somebody else's problem. For whatever reason, he became this grown man's whipping post. He's not talked about this abuse before but his siblings know the truth because they lived in the same house and got whippings too but not like the ones this middle child experienced.
He told me, "it hurt so bad because all I wanted was for him to love me."

 

[SMK]

Sorry to go on and on and to quote myself but I need to add something and have shared this story before. It is, that despite my father being fair minded and good, he once said to me, "you're only average". I was in my teens and people would often say to me, "you should be a model", emphasis on outer beauty. I was only 5'7" but back then, since I had been that height since age twelve, people considered that tall for a girl.

My father was a commercial artist and saw first hand how models could be treated. They'd come into the studio and upon leaving, men would make derogatory comments about them. But did I know any of this background to explain his comment? No, of course not. Those words, out of my own father's mouth, went into my mind and heart and did not serve me productively as he had intended them too. He explained later that he didn't want me to become conceited. Duh dad! He also apologized to me for his poor choice of words but, of course, that was years later.

My point is that sometimes the simplest remark, depending on who says it, can make the strongest impression either positively or negatively on its recipient.

It's hard for me to imagine what happens to children who have to put up with severe abuse, sexual abuse and/or boundary crossing regarding that, mothers who don't speak up and defend their children, children who feel they are invisible or not as good as their siblings, etc. A man I know told me the other day that he was hit almost everyday of his life while his siblings were helplessly standing by. Sometimes he was hit because of what one of them did. He's fifty years old and just coming to grips with feelings about this abuse now. When he was telling me about this, I was listening to his child self and I cried. He couldn't see this because we were on the phone. He is accepting that he was a victim of somebody else's problem. For whatever reason, he became this grown man's whipping post. He's not talked about this abuse before but his siblings know the truth because they lived in the same house and got whippings too but not like the ones this middle child experienced.
He told me, "it hurt so bad because all I wanted was for him to love me."

Yes, very poignant, and all true.

 

[SMK]

I actually had posted a long reply to that above, but when I hit "submit", it froze up and then went to error.:furious:

 

[Gecko100]

I just want to say thanks to everyone for sharing their stories about the unmitigated trauma/grief we can experience not only as children, but as adults in our daily lives. The empathy is palpable on this thread, it's so nice not to have to duck for cover! People who have grown through their own issues are remarkably resilient, supportive, and know how it feels on a deeper level to feel worthless, abandoned, and somehow 'not enough'.
Big group hug all round to all of you.
Bravo!!!
I don't think it was any accident that I ended up as a social worker consumed with the need to make sure that all children feel protected/connected in some way to prevent some of the horror stories we hear, or even experience. I feel like I have a duty to towards these children. It has been a terrific struggle at times, but one full of growth and expansion. Despite being unable to continue to working in this field (PTSD), I can write, and will continue to research solutions/understanding of how children become who they do.
Has anyone ever seen the series '7 UP'? I think there is an American version too. A Jesuit priest once said 'Give me the child until he is 7, and I will give you the man', this is the premise of a longitudinal look at what factors influence children to make the choices they do as adults.
These same children are now in their late 50's. There is some evidence to suggest that basic 'personalities' are fixed before the age of 7.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I found the 20's, particularly the late 20's, as being very, very difficult. On paper, my life looked great. Right education, right job, right husband ect. Until one day, after many panic attacks out of the blue, I realized I could not hear the sound of my own voice. I had so many "shoulds." There was nothing about me that I felt was authentic. Swallowed a bucket of courage and started asking myself what were my values really, not my parents or friends. What were mine and what did I want? I think that time period is when young adults really DO start defining themselves for real. Some development specialists consider the lates 20's the true end of adolecense. For me, I did the unthinkable.Quit my noble career, got an adnvanced degree in a completely different field..left my husband. And pretty funny, after I enetered grad school, I never had a panic attack again.( ok a tiny one a few years ago during cancer treatment but ... that radiation machine is a scary SOB.) The last 30 years have been awesome and I certainly can hear my own voice LOL

A few pages back, someone inquired as to posters' educational levels. A factor I try to keep in mind is that we are, as a group, various ages. (I'm not inquiring as to our ages.) My responses from when I was in my thirties, will not be the same as my responses are today in my fifties. Same goes for my responses prior to becoming a mother versus after becoming a mother. For all I know, someone responding to my posts could be my son's age. Not that there isn't value to young peoples' opinions because I believe there is, but years of dealing with life's issues has to carry some added weight.

Also, once you've had and beat cancer, as many of us have, nothing else is too scary (except falling from the sky in an airplane - panic attack prompter for sure!)

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I actually had posted a long reply to that above, but when I hit "submit", it froze up and then went to error.:furious:

Ohhh, I hate when that happens. Or when it takes so long to compose a response, the thread has already closed down - ugh!

 

[MeeBee]

I was physically and mentally abused growing up. For me, the pain of the emotional abuse has lasted longer than the physical pain. I feel like I'm a a shell of the person I was supposed to be. I sometimes wonder about the things I could have accomplished in my life if it wasn't for the years and years of being taught that I was stupid, annoying, of being made fun of, of getting yelled at and berated for accidents (like dropping a glass. Once my mom told me all I ever do is f*ck everything up and to never do the dishes again. She was always saying things like that to us). But there is a blockage in my brain that keeps me from getting over that stuff and cannot get over it. I find it hard to make friends because my mind won't let me talk. I have things to say but I ruminate and become so deathly worried that what I'm going to say is going to sound stupid that I don't say anything. I am painfully shy. Being this way has ruined my life and who I think I could have been. I have no self esteem left, no confidence.

I am married and I have a daughter who I love. It's good to have someone in my life who loves me unconditionally and makes me feel loved and appreciated and smart. He's amazing. But I cannot get it in my head that I am worth something and that I'm smart and worthy. So I am happy overall. Just sad about my lost potential.

 

[Cate49]

It took me a little longer to be able to say that my life was great after I had been mowed down by my love interest who had burst my bubble as to having the love story my mother and father have and share to this day. One has to have a willing partner you know? The best medicine for me was to take steps outside of the happily ever after fairy tale that girls are fed from a very young age, and begin concentrating on and building my own strengths. That process involved; enrolling in college, completing a two year degree and then a four year degree, all the while staying employed in one form or another to support my goals. Also I quit drinking alcohol as it acted as a depressant to me. My decision making improved as a result too. Also I turned to God but not to please a man but because I needed Him in my life. The foundation had been layed through Sunday school when I was a child. I began these efforts at around age twenty-four. As I accomplished different goals, my esteem rose accordingly. Each year I layed new, better tracks down for myself by myself and I'd say my inner and outer person came together best by the time I was thirty. By then, I had

my thinking cap on and engaged. Everyone is different. Despite being a late
bloomer, I had good parents who, if anything can be said that's negative about
them, (not sure if this is even the right way to express it), but they're kind of
simple (not simple minded) in that they're easily satisfied. One of my dad's
favorite sayings is, "If you expect nothing from anybody, you're never
disappointed." He is self sufficient, loyal and kind; he appreciates what he has
and what's offered to him. He entertains himself but will ready himself to be
my/our companion too. He'll be turning eighty-eight years old soon. Another
thing we can do is learn to focus on the positive features of our lives, not only
what's negative. Some of us lean naturally one way or the other and may not
realize our habit of negative thinking.

Woe be gone: I am glad to hear your life is really good. So many good lessons can be found in simplicity. When I have the chance to spend time with elder people. I recognize knowledge they that has taken many decades of wisdom + education through life experience. If I met your elderly father I am sure he would teach me too!

 

[Cate49]

Meebee: now they can see how wrong they were. You are in this forum speaking with clarity and feeling. How many people will read your words and identify with your situation. As long as any of us have breath we can still accomplish many things.

 

[Gecko100]

I was physically and mentally abused growing up. For me, the pain of the emotional abuse has lasted longer than the physical pain. I feel like I'm a a shell of the person I was supposed to be. I sometimes wonder about the things I could have accomplished in my life if it wasn't for the years and years of being taught that I was stupid, annoying, of being made fun of, of getting yelled at and berated for accidents (like dropping a glass. Once my mom told me all I ever do is f*ck everything up and to never do the dishes again. She was always saying things like that to us). But there is a blockage in my brain that keeps me from getting over that stuff and cannot get over it. I find it hard to make friends because my mind won't let me talk. I have things to say but I ruminate and become so deathly worried that what I'm going to say is going to sound stupid that I don't say anything. I am painfully shy. Being this way has ruined my life and who I think I could have been. I have no self esteem left, no confidence.

I am married and I have a daughter who I love. It's good to have someone in my life who loves me unconditionally and makes me feel loved and appreciated and smart. He's amazing. But I cannot get it in my head that I am worth something and that I'm smart and worthy. So I am happy overall. Just sad about my lost potential.

Oh that is so sad, being silenced as a child leaves you with such a sense of powerlessness, and because it is embedded in our brains at an an early age it can be hard to shift. I also grieve lost potential, lack of acknowledgement, validity, and self worth the list is endless...
In that sense it was helpful for me to know what I was tackling, old repeated messages that I absolutely know are not true about me, and probably aren't true about you either. It's like a wittering nagging voice in my head that wants me to be that small defenceless child (parental tapes on a permanent loop) again. So I tell it to shut up and go bother someone else!
In psychoanalytical terms this is direct contact between the parent (superego) and the child (id) and has the effect of leaving us bouncing between the two extremes with the added result of the adult (ego strengths) being impaired. Which accounts for our inability to feel confident, able, and empowered, and assertive.
The tapes have to go, they are no longer news just repeated empty words that have no relevant meaning in my life as an adult. I work at it every day to give my inner child space and compassion, pats on the back for not succumbing to false nonsense, and give permission to myself to just be who I am. In a sense, I am re-nurturing that little child, who did nothing to deserve such treatment, and I find all sorts of ways for the child to tell her side of the story, via art, poetry, dance or anything creative. I play her lovely music and try to show her everyday the wonders of the world. I try to be as loving a mother as I can to that little wounded inner being. I validate her, comfort her, and give her what I never had.

I also need to check my reality daily to remind me that while my efforts are not appreciated by those who should love me unconditionally, there are others that absolutely do, and I think your husband and daughter would agree with that about you!
Phew, that was a big long one, now watch it disappear into the interwebs!
This all just my own opinion, based on my own life experience

 

[Cate49]

Saw a clip tonight of the beginning of Dr. Drew show. It is tape of Jodi's mother talking with the detective. She says that Jodi returned home from Arizona normal. However, she speaks of friends telling her that Jodi needs help. One friend even called during the night to express concern for Jodi. These interviews I believe will help give us insight into Jodi and even the warning signs her parents experienced. I'm sure some one has seen program and give more details than I have here.

 

[Keyra6]

Juror misconduct

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...-ask-for-mistrial-because-of-juror-misconduct

http://media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Juror5.pdf

 

[Keyra6]

alyce laviolette lic. not cancelled as i see it.

http://www.alycelaviolette.com/Alyce-LaViolette-cv.pdf

 

[Cate49]

Juror misconduct

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/regio...-ask-for-mistrial-because-of-juror-misconduct

http://media2.abc15.com/html/pdf/Juror5.pdf

Thanks for link. She was trying to HELP Jodi the heads got this one wrong.

 

[Gecko100]

bbm ~ Thank you for using the term "splitter" to refer to a concrete description of a mother's relationship to her children. In another case, these various terms were introduced and I still have trouble conceptualizing what some of them mean upon hearing them.

One of my closest friends has these types of relationships going on within her family and it's her mother who it seems is at the helm. When my friend began describing a big blow up that happened within her family and that her mother turned against her (because my friend refused to enable her any longer), I had trouble believing her version of the story (but kept that to myself). I've known this family since I was nineteen years old, so for over thirty years, and have always thought they placed their mother on a pedestal (though I couldn't understand why exactly). As long as she was allowed to run the show and people bowed down to her and her dictates, all looked well from the outside looking in. Since I care about my friend and want to understand her issues so as not to be at odds with her, this is a big light bulb moment for me. Her sister is most definitely a splitter too. Years ago she told my friend to leave her husband because he didn't buy her fine jewelry. I was present when she said this and spoke up and said that ____ is a good man and she should stay out of their business. Besides, jewelry had nothing to do with their problems. That was years ago and the sister would just step over me if I fell down right in front of her - ha! My friend and her husband are still married - going on thirty-two years.

I'm so sorry for anyone whose own mother inflicts this kind of pain on a child no matter how old the child is. That's why understanding what's going on is vital to healing and for realizing that you're not the one who is nuts allowing one to separate from the identity of their mother. Sometimes it takes almost a lifetime to understand an ongoing damaging dynamic that's negatively affecting a group of people.

Thank you for acknowledging my post. There is a good website which explains the term 'splitter'. It is common among children of N mothers that the siblings (according to their warped mindset of N mums) are either good or bad, the 'good' ones tend to be compliant with their demands, and the 'bad' not so much. So the siblings are split into categories of golden child/black sheep. The N mother looks for reflections of herself in her children, and if they don't possess it they are not important. They will also 'gaslight' and tell you that you are the mentally unstable one when you insist that something is not right.
They will convey this message to their children which pits them against each other (splitting) because the golden siblings believe they are always right, which isn't so, they are as wounded and falsely inflated as the black sheep is falsely under inflated, because the mind of a N is warped. It creates such dysfunctional families, half of whom deny it, while the other half continue to suffer it, as well as suffering them, and their need to carry on the mothers message to preserve their own sanity.:furious::furious::furious:
They both have the same wounding, just different sides of the coin, personally I would rather be the 'black sheep', because they can acknowledge and unlearn primitive behaviours, and prevent their escape onto the next generation of children. The golden children can't/won't.
Pm me if you want the name of the website, it is primarily concerned with daughters of narcissistic mothers. I'm not sure how to link it or if it is allowed. Eek...
It certainly sounds like something is going on for your friend. Poor thing.