Armchair psych profile and personal background

[CARIIS]

All this talk about Luka's childhood is starting to give me the heebee-jeebees. I hope his childhood troubles don't get in the way of the fact that he brutally murdered an innocent human being as well as animals.

Yes, his childhood no doubt was horrible. But that's no excuse. No "If the glove don't fit we must acquit" stuff here. LE has him on video tape doing the killing. That's pretty clear evidence. :jail:

:moo:

IMO, I think that being able try and obtain reasons, conclude severe pathology does not mean I think he should be excused. THESE ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE ENTITIES.!

 

[CARIIS]

No matter if his childhood was horrible or not, there is no excuse for what he did. Many, many people have been sexually abused as children, and they don't proceed to murder and mutilate either animals or humans.

What I do hope to happen, with this case and many others, is that people start realizing the damage that can happen to children, when abuse and sexual abuse is involved. People need to put the stigma of mental illness aside, too, and they need to stop ignoring red flags when problems arise.
In LM's case, I'm sure there were tons of red flags, from childhood straight through until now (this person needed some serious help).

Severity/duration matter in anything - if a diabetic eats one spoon of sugar response is different than if 3.......pack of cigs a day diff than 2 your with me! And ,bear with me, i beleive every word in his family history report JMO

OK guys , if you will just for a second, lets pretend tomm we find a video tape of every second in first 8 years of this family (!) every minutes AND it indicates every word in that one is true, would anyone change their minds regarding impact of mental illiness - just a hypothtetical - ??????????

 

[Sillybilly]

Someone asked above (a few pages back) whether it's impossible to have 'an OJ situation' in Canada. Well, no one can say NEVER.....but I think it's HIGHLY UNLIKELY here.

Regarding all this talk of LRM's 'psycholigical troubles'..... I truly do NOT think that this will 'get him off'. He's going to be labelled a dangerous offender which means he'll spend a lifetime in prison.

As for the dangerous offender label - they do ASK for release from prison but they are most certainly denied release. Example of this: Clifford Olsen. He was in prison for LIFE and died recently in hospital of cancer.

:moo:

Good morning peeps !! (west coaster trying to catch up here)

While I do believe Olson would never have been released, it is worth noting that he was sentenced to 25 years in 1983, so when he died in 2011 at 71 years of age, he had in fact served only 3 years beyond those 25 years.

Olson was 43 when sentenced, so let's hope the fact that LRM is approx 14 years younger doesn't factor into any NPB decisions down the road.

 

[CARIIS]

I've seen that, too. Even a difference in the brain of a depressed person, a bipolar person. Fascinating stuff.

Even though there is the heredity link, environment also plays a big part.
So who knows if they'll ever find the answer?

There is also (in AMerica pharm companies keeping this out) but neurotranmitter testing is amazing to !

 

[ToBeHonest]

All this talk about Luka's childhood is starting to give me the heebee-jeebees. I hope his childhood troubles don't get in the way of the fact that he brutally murdered an innocent human being as well as animals.

Yes, his childhood no doubt was horrible. But that's no excuse. No "If the glove don't fit we must acquit" stuff here. LE has him on video tape doing the killing. That's pretty clear evidence. :jail:

:moo:

I think the context of this forum is more the cause for speaking about LRM's childhood troubles than than anything. I think some of us may recognize bits and pieces of LRM's background in people we've met or see patterns that others in media have exhibited prior to similar crimes. I do not think any of us think he should get out of paying for his crime if it's proven he did what he did, whether it be going to prison permanently or a mental institution.

 

[Mozzmo]

So who knows if they'll ever find the answer?

It's going to be a challenge to figure out. My first thought is a possible longitudinal study whereby infant brains are scanned and then followed over time, along with close documentation of family/environmental factors. Would be interesting to see how infants with low activity in those at-risk areas evolved or not into psychopaths.

 

[CARIIS]

I agree with you, it's been proven that those who are abused early on tend to mimic and relive and generally end up being attracted to those who will abuse them later on.

Question, do you think he was born with the psychopathy or just a genetic predisposition to it that manifested as a result of abuse (my father was paranoid schizo and I am told he was abused and began to manifest his symptoms after being hit in the head). It's more a thought than anything, nature versus nurture always fascinates me.

I think the environment helps sort of "marinate" the genetic if that makes sense. If I am blind and my family is really helpful the outcome (impact of my blindness) , on my life, is gonna be diff than if my family told me to stay home while they go out.

you know what I am saying!

 

[ToBeHonest]

Severity/duration matter in anything - if a diabetic eats one spoon of sugar response is different than if 3.......pack of cigs a day diff than 2 your with me! And ,bear with me, i beleive every word in his family history report JMO

OK guys , if you will just for a second, lets pretend tomm we find a video tape of every second in first 8 years of this family (!) every minutes AND it indicates every word in that one is true, would anyone change their minds regarding impact of mental illiness - just a hypothtetical - ??????????

I agree with you on both counts. I think in the case of your second question, in my mind the only thing it changes is that it's a terrible tragedy that society has become such that we ignore and push individuals with these backgrounds to the fringes of society. We ignore them rather than giving them help early on and more clearly reading signs that they need help. I think they are right, it takes a village, if the parents don't care, it would have been nice if a teacher or someone else had noticed how 'off' LRM was and worked to get him help.

He still needs to pay for his crime, his background is no excuse for ruining another's family and taking their life.

 

[sinwonderland]

I believe he was abused as much as I believe Casey Anthony was abused. For those of you who didn't follow her case, she was accused of murdering her 2 year old daughter. Her defence was sexual abuse by her dad and brother (never one iota of evidence presented at trial or anytime before or after that there was ever any sexual abuse).

She claimed Zanny the nanny kidnapped her baby girl. There was no Zanny the nanny. It was all made up.

She told the cops she worked at Universal Studios in Orlando and when the cops took her there to investigate, she went along with them and even showed them an office only to admit later on that same day that she lied. She didn't work there.

She showed the cops where this ficticious Zanny lived.

Her defence team made up some cockamamie story that little Caylee drowned in the family pool but yet her remains were dumped in a field near the home.

Anyway, all this to say, whatever Eric Newman says is BS. Just like Casey Anthony. Pathological liars.

I understand everyone's right to believe him but remember, they are very good at what they do. Their fantasies become realities. Enough so, that they can con even the best of the best into believing them.

:moo:

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I watched the entire Casey Anthony thing. I'm sorry but I don't put these two cases together. First of all, I Casey Anthony killed her child. A child. Casey Anthony was a spoiled brat with an attitude problem. In my mind, these two cases are not comparable. Even if Zanny does rhyme with Manny.

 

[CARIIS]

It's going to be a challenge to figure out. My first thought is a possible longitudinal study whereby infant brains are scanned and then followed over time, along with close documentation of family/environmental factors. Would be interesting to see how infants with low activity in those at-risk areas evolved or not into psychopaths.

But how would anyone get truly authentic data regarding envir - a , insest,sex physical abuse hidden.

And at this point we do have, anecdotal data.
Lets say we did not --- all the PDs are solely environmental!!!

 

[Sillybilly]

What puzzles me is that it seems that Magnotta followed a dark path after he left his grandparents, but look at his sister, she is not crazy like him. Didn't she live with grandparents too or with her mother? She is somewhat normal functioning, we never heard of any criminal records, she is a mother and is not an attention seeker online or have delusions of grandeur of being a supermodel... Plus as far as we know she didn't kill animals and humans!

<rsbm>

All LRM's siblings and half-siblings were younger than him. I don't recall reading that any of them lived with the grandparents, but his cousin LY did (currently in jail on drug and gun trafficking charges). I wonder what the story is on why the cousin LY wasn't living with parents. Because the cousin bears the Y surname, presumably his parents are aunt/uncle that are sister/brother to LRM's mom.

On a separate note the hockeysfuture board post #165, has anyone ever tried to put a 7 year old in diapers and stuff them into a high-chair? Seriously, would they actually fit?

 

[deanna82437]

No matter if his childhood was horrible or not, there is no excuse for what he did. Many, many people have been sexually abused as children, and they don't proceed to murder and mutilate either animals or humans.

What I do hope to happen, with this case and many others, is that people start realizing the damage that can happen to children, when abuse and sexual abuse is involved. People need to put the stigma of mental illness aside, too, and they need to stop ignoring red flags when problems arise.
In LM's case, I'm sure there were tons of red flags, from childhood straight through until now (this person needed some serious help).

I so agree with your input, pippirose and to add to that I am inserting some thoughts from a book and author who I much admire and agree with.

"Without Conscience: The Disturbing World of the Psychopaths Among Us" - Robert D. Hare, PhD

From the epilogue ...

..."First, in spite of more than a century of clinical study and speculation and several decades of scientific research, the mystery of the psychopath still remains. Some recent developments have provided us with new insights into the nature of this disturbing disorder, and its borders are becoming more defined. But the fact is, compared with other major clinical disorders, little systematic research has been devoted to psychopathy, even though it often responsible for far more social distress and disruption than all other psychiatric disorders combined.

Second, rather than try to pick up the pieces after the damage has been done, it would make far greater sense to increase our efforts to understand this perplexing disorder and to search for effective early interventions. The alternatives are to continue devoting massive resources to the prosecution, incarceration, and supervision of psychopaths after they have committed offenses against society, and to continue to ignore the welfare and plight of their victims. The criminal justice system spends billions of dollars every year in a vain attempt to "rehabilitate" or "resocialize" psychopaths and other persistent offenders. But these terms--popular with politicians and prison administrators--are little more than buzzwords. We have to learn how to socialize them, not resocialize them. And this will require serious efforts at research and early intervention.

The social and financial costs to society of failing to solve the deadly mystery of the psychopath will be staggering. It is imperative that we continue the search for clues."

In no way do I condone any of LRM's actions, however. Just thought the above is and has been so needed in this society.

 

[CARIIS]

No one would hear anything because in Canadian law, children/minors are protected and their names never made public.

Even if a child murders someone, we don't know their name if they are under the age of 18.

Here, they would state that the agency responsible for investigating allegations of abuse had been involved with the family. They will not releae the name of the minor victim but it would be known that the department had been involved with allegations of abuse.

And if the agency determined that the reports were substainted (HATE TYPOING BELIEVE IT NOT!) that to would be reported (all over the place!)

Also, if there were reports of domestic violence calls to the house that too (by date time etc!) will be broadcast, over and over, for approx 9 months !

Now the American medias fav is the 911 calls. They get played ad nausum, for years !

Your system is far more approp!

 

[CARIIS]

<rsbm>

All LRM's siblings and half-siblings were younger than him. I don't recall reading that any of them lived with the grandparents, but his cousin LY did (currently in jail on drug and gun trafficking charges). I wonder what the story is on why the cousin LY wasn't living with parents. Because the cousin bears the Y surname, presumably his parents are aunt/uncle that are sister/brother to LRM's mom.

On a separate note the hockeysfuture board post #165, has anyone ever tried to put a 7 year old in diapers and stuff them into a high-chair? Seriously, would they actually fit?

Adult diapers and a fat child highchair?? Chose not to help myself..............

 

[Donyale]

Great post! I like your sleuthing!! Maybe u could post these findings in the "Other Crimes?" thread?!!?!

thank you so much
I will, I haven't written much in the other threads, except for the 'missing head' and 'social network', but I will read that one and post this snake post there. Cheers!

 

[Sillybilly]

But of all the lies and fantasies that LM has spun, the one thing I *don't* doubt is abuse.

<rsbm>

The only reason I consider the abuse angle at all is because it seems to have been somewhat substantiated by the aunt that the family is dysfunctional. Other than the aunt, the only ones i recall referencing the abuse are LRM himself or those who LRM told about it.

The one question i have in that respect is, would that same aunt be the mother of the cousin LY who also lived with the grandparents?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To CARIIS post just above:

:tyou: for the kind words about our Canadian system re minors. It does work out quite well!!

 

[dotr]

Please do not shoot the messenger- but, thinking of how about 29-30 years ago the Morgan....clinic was closed down (and bombed).


Legalized abortion and crime effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"The effect of legalized abortion on crime (sometimes referred to as the Donohue-Levitt hypothesis) is the theory that legal abortion reduces crime. Proponents of the theory generally argue that since unwanted children are more likely to become criminals and that an inverse correlation is observed between the availability of abortion and subsequent crime. Not only that, but children born under these conditions are usually less fortunate as enough preparation was not put in place for their birth and upbringing. In particular, it is argued that the legalization of abortion in the United States, largely due to the Supreme Court's decision in Roe v. Wade, has reduced crime in the late 20th and early 21st centuries. Opponents generally reject these statistics, and argue that abortion has negative effects on society or decrease in crime is brought about in other ways".

 

[Sillybilly]

@ Donyale

For legal reasons, you may want to go back and edit your post re Maribel Buritica ... GW is a very common name, and I highly doubt he is one and the same as our Canadian politician.

(If it's too late to edit, maybe PM a Mod and ask them to do so)

 

[Sillybilly]

What?? The articles specifically state "Canadian politician".

The word "politician" does not appear in the article that was linked:

scroll down to:

Murder mastermind in drug addiction rehab in Canada

http://dr1.com/premium/news/2012/dnews052312.shtml


Not all "Canadians" are politicians