ARUBA - Robyn Gardner, 35, Maryland woman missing in Aruba, 2 Aug 2011 - # 5

[Dushi]

To date this is what I know and i have posted links in support of this

Baez did not lie, he said that the Insurance policy was NOT a specific life policy taken out should she die, he cleared the speculation up about it and that the "Life" side was merely part of the Policy, not a specific life policy and he also stated that GG had always taken such policies out with his travelling companions who all happened to be women and none of those women disappeared.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

No, it is not a "fact" that he forged her signature. No one here has said that.

I find it a common misunderstanding what "fact" and "opinion" mean, to the point that I clearly state that something is my opinion, and then later someone says I was stating it as fact. When I say something is a fact (such as when JB lied about RG taking life insurance on GG) I have the evidence to back it up.

Fact: Something that can be proven by visible evidence.
Opinion: Something that may or may not be based on facts.

What is a fact is that GG took out travel insurance on RG, and named himself as beneficiary in the event of her death. There are documents that show this (discussed at length in this and earlier threads.)

Per numerous sources, the figure of that policy is 1.5 million dollars.

When the signatures are examined on the beneficiary forms signed by RG in April and July (the April one was for a cruise she cancelled) it is a fact that the signatures are distinctly different. That too was discussed at length in this thread.

My opinion is that one or both of these forms were forged. That remains to be seen. A clue that I am right is that Taco Stein said one of the charges they were considering is insurance fraud, but until we see what evidence they have, such as RG's actual signature and expert analysis, we don't know for sure.

Look at GG's alleged criminal history (not all of this is necessarily factual, but for the purpose of getting a glimpse into what he is possibly capable of) plus witness statements and you will see a lot of other "obvious" blunders in his choices for crime. Walking out with a shopping cart full of stuff at Target, stealing jewelry from Costco, stalking a woman in a jackalope mask, raping a woman on camera, forging a signature to a multi-million dollar contract, etc. This is stupid stuff. What makes you think he suddenly went non-stupid?

As for why no remains have been found, it might help if they actually looked for her. Trying to do it without cadaver dogs is a joke.

MOO.

EHHHH---OKEY DOKEY, HS! No problem. If you notice I posed it as a question . No assumptions on my part. I think I know the difference between fact and opinion. I was actually trying to verify that not all the 'Insurance scam" information was indeed fact. Thank you for picking up on that. As for the sigs being factually different, agreed, but "forged" is not a proven fact.


So I am right there with you so far.

In fact until any and all of this "alleged" behavior is proven factual, I am willing to :fence: until that time when we have more "facts"'. My comments have only been "opinions". :truce:

 

[concentric]

To date this is what I know and i have posted links in support of this

Baez did not lie, he said that the Insurance policy was NOT a specific life policy taken out should she die, he cleared the speculation up about it and that the "Life" side was merely part of the Policy, not a specific life policy and he also stated that GG had always taken such policies out with his travelling companions who all happened to be women and none of those women disappeared.

So, you say Baez does not lie. OK, then.

 

[LambChop]

You can't bury someone in Aruba. Under what little sand/dirt they have is solid rock. So bringing in dogs will do no good at all. If RG were lying somewhere among the rocks they would have found her. The island is 27 miles long and 2 miles wide so where would she be hiding that LE would not know. There is no place to hide someone there, except for the ocean.

As far as information. Things progress down there but we are not going to know about it because there just is not the interest that there was when NH disappeared. This is just a case, and not their first, of another crazy American coming to the island to get rid of their partner. Don't blame Arubans. They would have been happier if GG had decided to do the cruise.

I was also told by someone who owns a boat down there that they are monitored. The Arubans know who goes out and who comes in and they are very strict. So if a boat were to go to Venezuela, Aruba would know about it. Not like our coastline where a boat can come ashore in the middle of the night and we are none the wiser. They can track everyone. And I'm sure because of the number of Americans who vacation there they are very aware of security risks that could effect their own country.

If she were only a short distance from the beach and drowned, her body would have washed up by now according to the authorities. It seems that many who drown accidently do.

Because the FBI is so involved my guess is Aruba will let him go and he'll be arrested by Americans as soon as he goes through customs at the airport in Aruba. There is no way he will get away. jmo

 

[suniskye]

I can't help but feel that since Jose Baez entered the fray and visited Aruba that this case has since then become less speculative and less media intensive. It seems to me that whatever he has advised GG's defense council has had the desired effect and resulted in less media speculation.
Afterall there is absolutely no evidence of a crime notwithstanding all the frenzied speculation that was given to this case, even the insurance policy theory has lost it legs after being revealed by Jose Baez that this was not a seperate life insurance policy but rather part of the travel insurance policy.
There is no doubt that since Jose Baez entered the arena that steam has been lost by the prosecution in this case.


Just my Opinion

Perhaps Jose is working behind the scenes here preparing in the event the feds charge him ... it does seem odd that all news stopped after that. I personally think Aruba would like to hand him over to the US to be dealt with accordingly and that is a possibility of what is going to go down in the near future.

 

[suniskye]

You can't bury someone in Aruba. Under what little sand/dirt they have is solid rock. So bringing in dogs will do no good at all. If RG were lying somewhere among the rocks they would have found her. The island is 27 miles long and 2 miles wide so where would she be hiding that LE would not know. There is no place to hide someone there, except for the ocean.

As far as information. Things progress down there but we are not going to know about it because there just is not the interest that there was when NH disappeared. This is just a case, and not their first, of another crazy American coming to the island to get rid of their partner. Don't blame Arubans. They would have been happier if GG had decided to do the cruise.

I was also told by someone who owns a boat down there that they are monitored. The Arubans know who goes out and who comes in and they are very strict. So if a boat were to go to Venezuela, Aruba would know about it. Not like our coastline where a boat can come ashore in the middle of the night and we are none the wiser. They can track everyone. And I'm sure because of the number of Americans who vacation there they are very aware of security risks that could effect their own country.

If she were only a short distance from the beach and drowned, her body would have washed up by now according to the authorities. It seems that many who drown accidently do.

Because the FBI is so involved my guess is Aruba will let him go and he'll be arrested by Americans as soon as he goes through customs at the airport in Aruba. There is no way he will get away. jmo

They could have taken the dogs to the dump.

I often though about whether Natalee was buried in one of those graves you see with someone else. If you were going to bury a body, putting them in an already marked grave could be an option or, if there is construction going on somewhere take them where the will be pouring concrete in the near future. There are all kinds of options with regard to burying that do not include burying in the ground.

 

[suniskye]

You can't bury someone in Aruba. Under what little sand/dirt they have is solid rock. So bringing in dogs will do no good at all. If RG were lying somewhere among the rocks they would have found her. The island is 27 miles long and 2 miles wide so where would she be hiding that LE would not know. There is no place to hide someone there, except for the ocean.

As far as information. Things progress down there but we are not going to know about it because there just is not the interest that there was when NH disappeared. This is just a case, and not their first, of another crazy American coming to the island to get rid of their partner. Don't blame Arubans. They would have been happier if GG had decided to do the cruise.

I was also told by someone who owns a boat down there that they are monitored. The Arubans know who goes out and who comes in and they are very strict. So if a boat were to go to Venezuela, Aruba would know about it. Not like our coastline where a boat can come ashore in the middle of the night and we are none the wiser. They can track everyone. And I'm sure because of the number of Americans who vacation there they are very aware of security risks that could effect their own country.

If she were only a short distance from the beach and drowned, her body would have washed up by now according to the authorities. It seems that many who drown accidently do.

Because the FBI is so involved my guess is Aruba will let him go and he'll be arrested by Americans as soon as he goes through customs at the airport in Aruba. There is no way he will get away. jmo

I agree. I think he will be handed to the feds.

In my mind, I think that is the better option of getting justice.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

To date this is what I know and i have posted links in support of this

Baez did not lie, he said that the Insurance policy was NOT a specific life policy taken out should she die, he cleared the speculation up about it and that the "Life" side was merely part of the Policy, not a specific life policy and he also stated that GG had always taken such policies out with his travelling companions who all happened to be women and none of those women disappeared.

Exactly.

 

[LambChop]

They could have taken the dogs to the dump.

I often though about whether Natalee was buried in one of those graves you see with someone else. If you were going to bury a body, putting them in an already marked grave could be an option or, if there is construction going on somewhere take them where the will be pouring concrete in the near future. There are all kinds of options with regard to burying that do not include burying in the ground.

The dogs came from the US for Natalie, I believe. There is no reason to have the dogs when he was only seen at that end of the island. There's nothing down there. LE knows exactly what happened to her and I bet she was pushed off the cliffs. He reported her missing at 6pm and at 4pm they were seen leaving the restaurant so she's not at the dump or he would have been seen. Even at the dump what would he bury her with. All he had were blue cups. He went to where he thought she would wash ashore in a day or two so he could collect his money. No one could prove she didn't drown because that is probably what happened. If she were drugged enough and passed out it would have been an easy kill.

Go to Aruba and explore the island and what you will find is the water is the only place to dispose of a body. There are no basements in Aruba and waiting for someone to pour cement is not likely. You really have to go there to understand. It's unlike the US in many, many ways. lol jmo

 

[Dushi]

So, you say Baez does not lie. OK, then.

Oh I didn't say that
I said MY OPINION is he is telling it as it is

 

[parker38]

The dogs came from the US for Natalie, I believe. There is no reason to have the dogs when he was only seen at that end of the island. There's nothing down there. LE knows exactly what happened to her and I bet she was pushed off the cliffs. He reported her missing at 6pm and at 4pm they were seen leaving the restaurant so she's not at the dump or he would have been seen. Even at the dump what would he bury her with. All he had were blue cups. He went to where he thought she would wash ashore in a day or two so he could collect his money. No one could prove she didn't drown because that is probably what happened. If she were drugged enough and passed out it would have been an easy kill.

Go to Aruba and explore the island and what you will find is the water is the only place to dispose of a body. There are no basements in Aruba and waiting for someone to pour cement is not likely. You really have to go there to understand. It's unlike the US in many, many ways. lol jmo

I agree with your point about being pushed off a cliff. If drugged,
the water might have stunned her a bit, which just might explain
GG saying something to the effect, 'she's probably dead now' to
the police.
She just might have lost her struggle to survive. That comment
of GG makes sense to me now. jmo

 

[LambChop]

Oh I didn't say that
I said MY OPINION is he is telling it as it is

What bothers me is when JB said RG took out a policy on GG. If she had done that the news people would have been all over it and we have had no proof that is even true. Plus JB would have been flashing it for everyone to see. So that would be a lie if there is no policy taken out by RG. jmo

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Wrong. Baez lied.

Go to 2 minutes in of below ABC video:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/jose-baez-defends-gary-giordano-gma-14562615


From the ABC video and article (be sure to watch the ABC video above to follow the context fully):

The attorney for Gary Giordano says the now-missing U.S. woman his client traveled to Aruba with last month, Robyn Gardner, also took out her own insurance policy for the trip.

"Yes, the two of them had policies on each other," Jose Baez, the newly hired defense attorney for Giordano said today on "Good Morning America." "Now, of course, since Gary was paying for the trip, Gary was the beneficiary of Robyn's policy."

Giordano submitted an insurance policy on Gardner July 30, one day before the pair, who met on an online swingers' website, left for a weeklong trip to Aruba.

Also on The View, he says again "Yes" to the question "Did this victim have insurance on Giordano?" (at end of video)

Jose Baez on His Next Case - The View - YouTube


This is a LIE. Robyn Gardner had no such insurance on Giordano. Gary's accidental death would have resulted in the 1.5 million dollars going to his MOTHER.

Giordano listed his mother as his beneficiary on the forms.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/aruba-susp...maryland-woman-robyn/story?id=14499332&page=2

Baez lied.

 

[Tugela]

He could only be lieing if he had actually seen the policies, which is unlikely. In the absence of that he is expressing an opinion, just like you. And it is clear in that interview that is what is happening. He never said RG was GG's beneficiary, just that they had insurances policies "on each other". That is just a figure of speech, and that sort of thing is common in any unscripted interview. When he talked about actual beneficiaries (which was clearly distinct from the earlier "on each other" comment), he only talked about GG.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

He could only be lieing if he had actually seen the policies, which is unlikely. In the absence of that he is expressing an opinion, just like you. And it is clear in that interview that is what is happening. He never said RG was GG's beneficiary, just that they had insurances policies "on each other". That is just a figure of speech, and that sort of thing is common in any unscripted interview. When he talked about actual beneficiaries (which was clearly distinct from the earlier "on each other" comment), he only talked about GG.

It is not clear he is stating an opinion at all. He is misrepresenting the facts, not giving an opinion. He said it in two different interviews so I don't understand your point about this being unscripted. Nor do I get this is just "a figure of speech." It is a statement that intentionally misrepresents what the insurance entailed. It really couldn't be more clear.

 

[suniskye]

It is not clear he is stating an opinion at all. He is misrepresenting the facts, not giving an opinion. He said it in two different interviews so I don't understand your point about this being unscripted. Nor do I get this is just "a figure of speech." It is a statement that intentionally misrepresents what the insurance entailed. It really couldn't be more clear.

It is the job of defense attorneys in criminal matters to confuse the facts. Jose Baez does his job very well that's why there is a murderer walking the streets right now.

 

[neesaki]

To date this is what I know and i have posted links in support of this

Baez did not lie, he said that the Insurance policy was NOT a specific life policy taken out should she die, he cleared the speculation up about it and that the "Life" side was merely part of the Policy, not a specific life policy and he also stated that GG had always taken such policies out with his travelling companions who all happened to be women and none of those women disappeared.

He had to pay more for the policy to up the life insurance to 1.5 mill. Why?

Also, GG took out a policy on Robyn naming himself as beneficiary. He took out a policy on himself naming his mother as his beneficiary. How can that be said to be the same as Robyn taking out a policy on GG? It's not the same.
We can just call it a misrepresentation of the facts if that sounds better, but it's still a lie.

 

[neesaki]

Exactly.

How is it you can say this when Baez stated that they took out policies on "each other". They did not take out policies on each other, GG took out the policies, one with himself as beneficiary and one with his mother as beneficiary. So where's the one w/ Robyn as beneficiary?

 

[neesaki]

I can't help but feel that since Jose Baez entered the fray and visited Aruba that this case has since then become less speculative and less media intensive. It seems to me that whatever he has advised GG's defense council has had the desired effect and resulted in less media speculation.
Afterall there is absolutely no evidence of a crime notwithstanding all the frenzied speculation that was given to this case, even the insurance policy theory has lost it legs after being revealed by Jose Baez that this was not a seperate life insurance policy but rather part of the travel insurance policy.
There is no doubt that since Jose Baez entered the arena that steam has been lost by the prosecution in this case.


Just my Opinion

Or maybe as ALE didn't appreciate the media attention after Baez came on the scene, they decided to just become even more tight lipped.

 

[neesaki]

To date this is what I know and i have posted links in support of this

Baez did not lie, he said that the Insurance policy was NOT a specific life policy taken out should she die, he cleared the speculation up about it and that the "Life" side was merely part of the Policy, not a specific life policy and he also stated that GG had always taken such policies out with his travelling companions who all happened to be women and none of those women disappeared.

Well, I still contend that upping the life policy to 1.5 million is pretty specific, doesn't make it irrelevant IMO just because it's offered as a package deal.

I guess GG habitually took out these policies because he was just "hoping" they would die. Or was he just setting the stage for something like this?